DRC: A look at where UNT stands in football recruiting as the dead period begins

[Brett Vito]

DRC: UNT sitting sixth in 247Sports' rankings of recruiting classes in C-USA

http://beta.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/06/26/unt-stands-dead-period-football-recruiting-arrives

[MGNation92]

We went from 2nd to 6th in a matter of weeks.

Yes other schools have gotten commitments. The main key here is they have gotten recruits other FBS coaches want. Us? Not so much. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see us finish 10th or worse in the conference by signing day

[BTG_Fan1]

Just now, MGNation92 said:

We went from 2nd to 6th in a matter of weeks.

Yes other schools have gotten commitments. The main key here is they have gotten recruits other FBS coaches want. Us? Not so much. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see us finish 10th or worse in the conference by signing day

Yea I mean its the staffs fault that Gage reopened his recruiting, and the fault of the staff that other schools have picked up kids...

[GTWT]

Is there a reason FIU wasn't on Brett's link?  Like, maybe, have they dropped back to the Sun Belt?

[MeanGreen_MBA]

based on some on this board, Rice should win C-USA next year because of this list.....

[brooks91]

58 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Yea I mean its the staffs fault that Gage reopened his recruiting, and the fault of the staff that other schools have picked up kids...

The coaches should be graded on their performance against their peers, ie cusa coaches. If we finish 10th or lower again in recruiting, than it will most definitely be the coaches' fault.

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Yea I mean its the staffs fault that Gage reopened his recruiting, and the fault of the staff that other schools have picked up kids...

Yes it's the coaches fault. I mean damn, who else's fault is it. The other schools for having the audacity to offer a player we're either holding or after? It's nothing to do with the other schools. They are beating us in recruiting badly. We can't move the needle here. And it falls on the blame of the coaching staff and the assistants/recruiters that Seth Littrell brought in. This has been underwhelming. When I heard that GH was coming on as OC, I thought for sure we would see at least somewhat of a consistent uptick in this area. And I don't want to speculate anything, and I am not pointing the finger directly at GH; but one has to think he's just buying his time waiting on another opportunity to rise. The problem with that is that he's sure as hell not blowing the top off defenses and he's not woo'ing kids. So, he better get comfortable in his current role and do better. 

 

1 hour ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

based on some on this board, Rice should win C-USA next year because of this list.....

Rice is where they currently are because of the quantity, not quality. Much like us here at UNT..We are 6th only because of quantity. We simply have more recruits committed. But per avg Rice is currently 9th, we're 10th. And that is the indication to look at to see where we will be standing at NSD. However, if Rice finishes with the number 1 class, they still won't necessarily be good next year; though better. It takes a couple years of consistent recruiting to start really seeing the dividends, usually not 1 class. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

based on some on this board, Rice should win C-USA next year because of this list.....

You really should try to listen more to the arguments that are being put out there.  

No one would argue that Rice should win C-USA next year because of this list... especially this list RIGHT NOW.

[NTPoonKing]

*Not a popular opinion.... but*

While I think Coach Littrell and his staff are great guys and good football coaches, the lack of top level 3 star type recruits in very concerning.

Like it or not, recruiting ratings are a pretty good indication of ability at the next level.

What exactly is the problem?  Perception?  Lack of  recruiting effort?

Who knows......

 

[BTG_Fan1]

2 hours ago, brooks91 said:

The coaches should be graded on their performance against their peers, ie cusa coaches. If we finish 10th or lower again in recruiting, than it will most definitely be the coaches' fault.

We are currently 6th which is in the top half, which the same people who have bashed this staff about just getting into the top half. 

They are doing this with worse than High School facilities, a team that has what? Like 5 or 6 winning seasons in over 2 decades, with a roster that has not produced 1 drafted player either and NSD isn't anytime soon. 

You want to compare these guys to other coaches in the conference and half of these coaches are brand new, and haven't even gotten 1 class yet. You are comparing them on something that is incomplete...

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

Yes it's the coaches fault. I mean damn, who else's fault is it. The other schools for having the audacity to offer a player we're either holding or after? It's nothing to do with the other schools. They are beating us in recruiting badly. We can't move the needle here. And it falls on the blame of the coaching staff and the assistants/recruiters that Seth Littrell brought in. This has been underwhelming. When I heard that GH was coming on as OC, I thought for sure we would see at least somewhat of a consistent uptick in this area. And I don't want to speculate anything, and I am not pointing the finger directly at GH; but one has to think he's just buying his time waiting on another opportunity to rise. The problem with that is that he's sure as hell not blowing the top off defenses and he's not woo'ing kids. So, he better get comfortable in his current role and do better. 

Dear lord, Ben.... Would you go to a school that is known for losing? that has worse facilities than your own high school? or would you go to a place that has put a whooping 4 UDFAs into the NFL in the last 5 or 6 years? If you think you have a better pitch, then type it up or put it into Powerpoint and email it to the staff and Wren. Heck even post it up on here and sale all of us on a school that is known for losing, liberal arts over athletics, and hasn't much success in terms of getting kids to their dreams of playing in the NFL. Sale us on the vision, please because apparently you know way more than these career coaches do. 

A coaches name maybe sexy like GH, but kids look at results. GH did not call the plays in WSU, and he was a QB Coaches for 1 or 2 years and before that he was an outside wrs coach. It has already been brought up that they have changed the views of some of the HS staffs in the state, but it will take alot more than just words. People want to see results. This offense was not built for passing last year, nor has been in the past. Our returning leading WR had a total of something along the lines of 33 catches and 350+ yards.. That isn't going to draw in recruits or WRs. 

Again, we can not fault the coaches for Gage reopening his recruiting because its the choice of the player. Gage already commited twice to us and hadn't picked up any offers as of 2 or 3 weeks ago. We had already beaten Colorado and some other solid offers, and during his commitment he had picked up something along the lines of Kent State and Ohio (schools that are not as sexy as the schools before us). 

This whole bashing the staff for them not being able to recruit crap is dumb, they pulled in alot of solid pick ups in the 1st class(Fine, Rico, Wilson, Jenks, Wheeler, Dee, Hood,Morris, Heck even English), and this 2nd class they as well added some talented kids in Siggers, White, Darden, Johnson, Guyton (who had multiple P5 offers but no rejoiced at this signing or praised the staff for that). We are bashing a staff that lost 3 coaches to P5s and another to a G5, and that turned a 1-11 team that got destroyed by Portland State for possibly the worst L in the history of D1 NCAA Football into a Bowl team. 

4 minutes ago, NTPoonKing said:

*Not a popular opinion.... but*

While I think Coach Littrell and his staff are great guys and good football coaches, the lack of top level 3 star type recruits in very concerning.

Like it or not, recruiting ratings are a pretty good indication of ability at the next level.

What exactly is the problem?  Perception?  Lack of  recruiting effort?

Who knows......

Its the losing record for years, the lack of facilities, lack of investment into staff (forward recruiting, graphics, etc), lack of production in terms of getting kids to the pros. 

Having to fight an uphill battle with the history of UNT that parents, and coaches know, and that kids can look up. Also, UNT being viewed as the fall-back option for HS kids as well. 

[DeepGreen]

I love to follow football recruiting, going all the way back to Harry's old board.  But "at the end of the day", uh, season, I'm more interested in wins and losses.

[GrandGreen]

23 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We are currently 6th which is in the top half, which the same people who have bashed this staff about just getting into the top half. 

They are doing this with worse than High School facilities, a team that has what? Like 5 or 6 winning seasons in over 2 decades, with a roster that has not produced 1 drafted player either and NSD isn't anytime soon. 

You want to compare these guys to other coaches in the conference and half of these coaches are brand new, and haven't even gotten 1 class yet. You are comparing them on something that is incomplete...

Dear lord, Ben.... Would you go to a school that is known for losing? that has worse facilities than your own high school? or would you go to a place that has put a whooping 4 UDFAs into the NFL in the last 5 or 6 years? If you think you have a better pitch, then type it up or put it into Powerpoint and email it to the staff and Wren. Heck even post it up on here and sale all of us on a school that is known for losing, liberal arts over athletics, and hasn't much success in terms of getting kids to their dreams of playing in the NFL. Sale us on the vision, please because apparently you know way more than these career coaches do. 

A coaches name maybe sexy like GH, but kids look at results. GH did not call the plays in WSU, and he was a QB Coaches for 1 or 2 years and before that he was an outside wrs coach. It has already been brought up that they have changed the views of some of the HS staffs in the state, but it will take alot more than just words. People want to see results. This offense was not built for passing last year, nor has been in the past. Our returning leading WR had a total of something along the lines of 33 catches and 350+ yards.. That isn't going to draw in recruits or WRs. 

Again, we can not fault the coaches for Gage reopening his recruiting because its the choice of the player. Gage already commited twice to us and hadn't picked up any offers as of 2 or 3 weeks ago. We had already beaten Colorado and some other solid offers, and during his commitment he had picked up something along the lines of Kent State and Ohio (schools that are not as sexy as the schools before us). 

This whole bashing the staff for them not being able to recruit crap is dumb, they pulled in alot of solid pick ups in the 1st class(Fine, Rico, Wilson, Jenks, Wheeler, Dee, Hood,Morris, Heck even English), and this 2nd class they as well added some talented kids in Siggers, White, Darden, Johnson, Guyton (who had multiple P5 offers but no rejoiced at this signing or praised the staff for that). We are bashing a staff that lost 3 coaches to P5s and another to a G5, and that turned a 1-11 team that got destroyed by Portland State for possibly the worst L in the history of D1 NCAA Football into a Bowl team. 

Its the losing record for years, the lack of facilities, lack of investment into staff (forward recruiting, graphics, etc), lack of production in terms of getting kids to the pros. 

Having to fight an uphill battle with the history of UNT that parents, and coaches know, and that kids can look up. Also, UNT being viewed as the fall-back option for HS kids as well. 

Damn, how many excuses can you cram into one response.  You continue to bring up lack of facilities as compared to who?  As far as a losing record, if that could not be overcome.   Losing teams could never become winners and winners should certainly never become losers. 

It is now impossible to argue that Littrell and company are winning many recruiting battles with peers.  So now it is a frantic and somewhat fanciful race to come up with why is this true.   It couldn't be that NT is just being out recruited by other more effective staffs.   It has to be the product NT is selling.  Really!

Edited June 27, 2017 by GrandGreen

[Ben Gooding]

12 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Damn, how many excuses can you cram into one response.  You continue to bring up lack of facilities as compared to who?  As far as a losing record, if that could not be overcome.   Losing teams could never become winners and winners should certainly never become losers. 

It is now impossible to argue that Littrell and company are winning many recruiting battles with peers.  So now it is a frantic and somewhat fanciful race to come up with why is this true.   It couldn't be that NT is just being out recruited by other more effective staffs.   It has to be the product NT is selling.  Really!

Yeah. He doesn't get it, or care to. He, and the people like him, is the reason that RV AD'd 10 years too long. 

[MGNation92]

34 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We are currently 6th which is in the top half, which the same people who have bashed this staff about just getting into the top half. 

They are doing this with worse than High School facilities, a team that has what? Like 5 or 6 winning seasons in over 2 decades, with a roster that has not produced 1 drafted player either and NSD isn't anytime soon. 

You want to compare these guys to other coaches in the conference and half of these coaches are brand new, and haven't even gotten 1 class yet. You are comparing them on something that is incomplete...

Dear lord, Ben.... Would you go to a school that is known for losing? that has worse facilities than your own high school? or would you go to a place that has put a whooping 4 UDFAs into the NFL in the last 5 or 6 years? If you think you have a better pitch, then type it up or put it into Powerpoint and email it to the staff and Wren. Heck even post it up on here and sale all of us on a school that is known for losing, liberal arts over athletics, and hasn't much success in terms of getting kids to their dreams of playing in the NFL. Sale us on the vision, please because apparently you know way more than these career coaches do. 

A coaches name maybe sexy like GH, but kids look at results. GH did not call the plays in WSU, and he was a QB Coaches for 1 or 2 years and before that he was an outside wrs coach. It has already been brought up that they have changed the views of some of the HS staffs in the state, but it will take alot more than just words. People want to see results. This offense was not built for passing last year, nor has been in the past. Our returning leading WR had a total of something along the lines of 33 catches and 350+ yards.. That isn't going to draw in recruits or WRs. 

Again, we can not fault the coaches for Gage reopening his recruiting because its the choice of the player. Gage already commited twice to us and hadn't picked up any offers as of 2 or 3 weeks ago. We had already beaten Colorado and some other solid offers, and during his commitment he had picked up something along the lines of Kent State and Ohio (schools that are not as sexy as the schools before us). 

This whole bashing the staff for them not being able to recruit crap is dumb, they pulled in alot of solid pick ups in the 1st class(Fine, Rico, Wilson, Jenks, Wheeler, Dee, Hood,Morris, Heck even English), and this 2nd class they as well added some talented kids in Siggers, White, Darden, Johnson, Guyton (who had multiple P5 offers but no rejoiced at this signing or praised the staff for that). We are bashing a staff that lost 3 coaches to P5s and another to a G5, and that turned a 1-11 team that got destroyed by Portland State for possibly the worst L in the history of D1 NCAA Football into a Bowl team. 

Its the losing record for years, the lack of facilities, lack of investment into staff (forward recruiting, graphics, etc), lack of production in terms of getting kids to the pros. 

Having to fight an uphill battle with the history of UNT that parents, and coaches know, and that kids can look up. Also, UNT being viewed as the fall-back option for HS kids as well. 

Dodge had a horrible staff and was overall a bad coach. Seth Littrell is a better coach and has a better staff, especially defensively. With that said. Take a look at this:

http://northtexas.247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/Commits

He recruited this class with 1/10th of what Seth Littrell has RIGHT NOW. 53rd in the nation? In the Sun Belt? In Fouts? With an even smaller weight room? 

No Excuses. Period. Seth can coach, he has shown, so far, that he cannot recruit. 

 

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, brooks91 said:

The coaches should be graded on their performance against their peers, ie cusa coaches. If we finish 10th or lower again in recruiting, than it will most definitely be the coaches' fault.

Correct.  Wins and losses on the field mean much more to me, and, IMHO, is a much better barometer on how they are fairing against their peers.

[BTG_Fan1]

Just now, MGNation92 said:

Dodge had a horrible staff and was overall a bad coach. Seth Littrell is a better coach and has a better staff, especially defensively. With that said. Take a look at this:

http://northtexas.247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/Commits

He recruited this class with 1/10th of what Seth Littrell has RIGHT NOW. 53rd in the nation? In the Sun Belt? In Fouts? With an even smaller weight room? 

No Excuses. Period. Seth can coach, he has shown, so far, that he cannot recruit. 

Dodge also had connections with the HS coaches throughout the state to combat the losing record. 

He also had the ability to pitch kids on improving facilities with them moving from Fouts to Apogee.... 

[MGNation92]

9 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Dodge also had connections with the HS coaches throughout the state to combat the losing record. 

He also had the ability to pitch kids on improving facilities with them moving from Fouts to Apogee.... 

lol wut.

Seth Littrell HAS Apogee. Plus that class was JuCo heavy. So you can't exactly say his relationship with high school coaches gave him a leg up. 

Why do you continue to make excuses for sub par recruiting? Were you also defending McCarney for this? Good Lord

[Ben Gooding]

7 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

lol wut.

Seth Littrell HAS Apogee. Plus that class was JuCo heavy. So you can't exactly say his relationship with high school coaches gave him a leg up. 

Why do you continue to make excuses for sub par recruiting? Were you also defending McCarney for this? Good Lord

Good question...were you?... @BTG_Fan1 we're on the honor system here. 

And this is rhetorical...sure you were. 

[BTG_Fan1]

24 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Damn, how many excuses can you cram into one response.  You continue to bring up lack of facilities as compared to who?  As far as a losing record, if that could not be overcome.   Losing teams could never become winners and winners should certainly never become losers. 

It is now impossible to argue that Littrell and company are winning many recruiting battles with peers.  So now it is a frantic and somewhat fanciful race to come up with why is this true.   It couldn't be that NT is just being out recruited by other more effective staffs.   It has to be the product NT is selling.  Really!

The lack of facilities that other schools have that we compete against. Rice just finished upgrades, UTSA has been improving since they started football, LAT has great facilities as well. 

A losing narrative being paired with UNT also being the fall-back option for kids in Texas. HS kids want to go to Baylor, TCU, UT, AM, then that is followed by UH, Tech, SMU then you have the fall back options of UNT, TXST, Rice, UTSA, UTEP..

Never once said that UNT staff was not being out-recruited. The points that I have made, are that UNT coaches have a major uphill battle. 

@GrandGreen please tell me why would are the lack of facilities being overlooked. Why would a kid want to come to Denton when they could go to places like SA, or SM? Why would a kid want to come to UNT when we have had no draft success? Why go to UNT over a bigger name school that everyone will know? Find answers to these questions and develop answers before we blame someone else aka the staff. 

2 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

lol wut.

Seth Littrell HAS Apogee. Plus that class was JuCo heavy. So you can't exactly say his relationship with high school coaches gave him a leg up. 

Why do you continue to make excuses for sub par recruiting? Were you also defending McCarney for this? Good Lord

SL yes has Apogee, but Dodge was actually able to say to recruits look we are investing and we upgrading/improving. UNT has not done that at all. They changed out some lockers was the major upgrade. They can show an IPF but till it is announced and ground broken has been upgraded/improved under SL.

LOL i wasn't even here for Mac. 

For all the people that see that SL is turning into Mac, please Email the staff, or even better email WB or NS and tell them what needs to improve and give how. Email them the pitch that will work. Because these coaches apparently are missing something that you can see that they can not. Its very easy to see a problem and blame everyone for it, but yet no one is willing to put forth reason or a way to improve. 

@MGNation92 answer questions like: Why should a recruit pick UNT over Rice or LAT when they have upgraded different football facilities? Why should a recruit pick UNT over SMU when they have had players drafted? Why should a recruit pick UNT over TXST/UTSA/ UTEP because of location, what does UNT have to offer that they don't? Why should a new staff that lost nearly half of its coaches and got to a bowl game all of a sudden be on the hotseat when this time last year we didn't have 1 single recruit? 

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Good question...were you?... @BTG_Fan1 we're on the honor system here. 

And this is rhetorical...sure you were. 

I wasn't even a fan of Mac when they did hire him. Because he was an outdated coach at the time. The only reason he came in because everyone wanted the opposite of Dodge, and he was the opposite. 

[Ben Gooding]

5 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The lack of facilities that other schools have that we compete against. Rice just finished upgrades, UTSA has been improving since they started football, LAT has great facilities as well. 

A losing narrative being paired with UNT also being the fall-back option for kids in Texas. HS kids want to go to Baylor, TCU, UT, AM, then that is followed by UH, Tech, SMU then you have the fall back options of UNT, TXST, Rice, UTSA, UTEP..

Never once said that UNT staff was not being out-recruited. The points that I have made, are that UNT coaches have a major uphill battle. 

@GrandGreen please tell me why would are the lack of facilities being overlooked. Why would a kid want to come to Denton when they could go to places like SA, or SM? Why would a kid want to come to UNT when we have had no draft success? Why go to UNT over a bigger name school that everyone will know? Find answers to these questions and develop answers before we blame someone else aka the staff. 

SL yes has Apogee, but Dodge was actually able to say to recruits look we are investing and we upgrading/improving. UNT has not done that at all. They changed out some lockers was the major upgrade. They can show an IPF but till it is announced and ground broken has been upgraded/improved under SL.

LOL i wasn't even here for Mac. 

For all the people that see that SL is turning into Mac, please Email the staff, or even better email WB or NS and tell them what needs to improve and give how. Email them the pitch that will work. Because these coaches apparently are missing something that you can see that they can not. Its very easy to see a problem and blame everyone for it, but yet no one is willing to put forth reason or a way to improve. 

@MGNation92 answer questions like: Why should a recruit pick UNT over Rice or LAT when they have upgraded different football facilities? Why should a recruit pick UNT over SMU when they have had players drafted? Why should a recruit pick UNT over TXST/UTSA/ UTEP because of location, what does UNT have to offer that they don't? Why should a new staff that lost nearly half of its coaches and got to a bowl game all of a sudden be on the hotseat when this time last year we didn't have 1 single recruit? 

I wasn't even a fan of Mac when they did hire him. Because he was an outdated coach at the time. The only reason he came in because everyone wanted the opposite of Dodge, and he was the opposite. 

Uh huh. Surrre. 

[BTG_Fan1]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

Uh huh. Surrre. 

LOL look at when I started on here...

Also, @GrandGreen please tell me why would our the lack of facilities being overlooked. Why would a kid want to come to Denton when they could go to places like SA, or SM? Why would a kid want to come to UNT when we have had no draft success? Why go to UNT over a bigger name school that everyone will know? Find answers to these questions and develop answers before we blame someone else aka the staff. 

[Ben Gooding]

26 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

LOL look at when I started on here...

Also, @GrandGreen please tell me why would our the lack of facilities being overlooked. Why would a kid want to come to Denton when they could go to places like SA, or SM? Why would a kid want to come to UNT when we have had no draft success? Why go to UNT over a bigger name school that everyone will know? Find answers to these questions and develop answers before we blame someone else aka the staff. 

I'm sorry, but you are out of your damn mind. There are programs littered throughout this country with dog shit facilities and horrid geographical locations. Yet, they out recruit UNT on the overall national ranking, 1-128. But, keep making your absolute baseless, and now turning into loony excuses. 

[GrandGreen]

20 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The lack of facilities that other schools have that we compete against. Rice just finished upgrades, UTSA has been improving since they started football, LAT has great facilities as well. 

A losing narrative being paired with UNT also being the fall-back option for kids in Texas. HS kids want to go to Baylor, TCU, UT, AM, then that is followed by UH, Tech, SMU then you have the fall back options of UNT, TXST, Rice, UTSA, UTEP..

Never once said that UNT staff was not being out-recruited. The points that I have made, are that UNT coaches have a major uphill battle. 

@GrandGreen please tell me why would are the lack of facilities being overlooked. Why would a kid want to come to Denton when they could go to places like SA, or SM? Why would a kid want to come to UNT when we have had no draft success? Why go to UNT over a bigger name school that everyone will know? Find answers to these questions and develop answers before we blame someone else aka the staff. 

Follow up on a response about making excuses and you double down.   Anyone' who thinks that UTSA and La Tech have overall facilities advantages over NT obviously doesn't know what they are talking about.  Rice, have you been to their stadium?  

A fall back option, NT or no other G5 is going to compete in recruiting with even a lower level P5.   UH is on a roll, NT should be competing with SMU and the other G5's you named.  You seem to be agreeing that NT should be at least competitive with their CUSA rivals.  

As far as your questions, you are kidding are you not.   Why did you go to NT, couldn't you manage UTSA or UTSM?   I have spend a lot of time in both San Marcos and San Antonio and I would chose Denton by a wide margin.   Recruits pick schools for a lot of reasons, but very few because they are thinking of their NFL draft position.  

I wonder why anyone would not hold the coaching staff responsible for recruiting.   It is a simple equation;  good recruiting equals wins.    Wins lead to more money and job offers, losses lead to firing.   If you want to label that blame, than every university in the FB division world is guilty. 

[BTG_Fan1]

2 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Follow up on a response about making excuses and you double down.   Anyone' who thinks that UTSA and La Tech have overall facilities advantages over NT obviously doesn't know what they are talking about.  Rice, have you been to their stadium?  

A fall back option, NT or no other G5 is going to compete in recruiting with even a lower level P5.   UH is on a roll, NT should be competing with SMU and the other G5's you named.  You seem to be agreeing that NT should be at least competitive with their CUSA rivals.  

As far as your questions, you are kidding are you not.   Why did you go to NT, couldn't you manage UTSA or UTSM?   I have spend a lot of time in both San Marcos and San Antonio and I would chose Denton by a wide margin.   Recruits pick schools for a lot of reasons, but very few because they are thinking of their NFL draft position.  

I wonder why anyone would not hold the coaching staff responsible for recruiting.   It is a simple equation;  good recruiting equals wins.    Wins lead to more money and job offers, losses lead to firing.   If you want to label that blame, than every university in the FB division world is guilty. 

Look at the stuff LAT has done, and again UTSA has gone from nothing to something over its programs history. We have done 0 for football since Apogee.

You and other posters have bashed on this staff for not holding onto kids with P5 offers, Gage has multiple P5 offers and they got him to commit twice... Bradley left UNT for UH which has been in the recent past than most P5s in the state. 

Again students/recruits see the night life of SA compared to Denton as a plus and the river and being near Austin/6th street as a boost to SM. The reason why kids pick P5s over G5s are because of name and helping them get to the pros. Kids to look at the success of the school in terms of getting kids to the pros and what they have to offer.. UNT has no success of getting kids drafted, and if it wasn't a big deal, then why do you see kids at OSU taken pics in front of NFL Jerseys with NFL players on it or us having a wall of names of guys who have played in the NFL (because kids look at it). Kids also look at schools in terms of the success that they have on the field as well.. Kids are a lot more likely to look at a school and pick a school because of the Draft Success over the academics when it comes to recruiting, I would say more than half the time. 

No one is saying don't hold the staff responsible. The fans that you don't agree with are saying, we can't blame them (the staff) completely because they don't have the same resources (yet) as other programs. When we have facilities that are worse than most area high schools, its not on the coaching staff... Its on the ADs office. WB is in the process (its been said) of them announcing the IPF and the expansion of the Football offices as well. When we have facilities that can compare with other D1 programs and the recruiting stays this way then we have a problem. And yes Wins lead to more money, and this is a young staff, you think that they want to keep and stay at UNT? No these guys want to have success and move on. 

Again, the questions posted to you, you didn't give any reasons as to why Denton is better than SA or SM... you didn't say why our facilites are better than Rice or LAT (when we can't even compete with local HS)... Nor did you answer why should recruits pass up bigger program offers for UNT. 

UNT has potential and that potential can only be realized by investing in the program. A coach can get up and leave at any time for a P5 job or get fired. An IPF will not leave. Make this place attractive and the recruits will come, and how you make it attractive to recruits and coaches is by showing off the new shiny toys... So lets stop having a hissy-fit over why we can't land recruits 5 or 6 months before the early signing period, when a high school down the road has more toys then we do. 

28 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I'm sorry, but you are out of your damn mind. There are programs littered throughout this country with dog shit facilities and horrid geographical locations. Yet, they out recruit UNT on the overall national ranking, 1-128. But, keep making your absolute baseless, and now turning into loony excuses. 

Facts don't care about your feelings.... You can say that our facilities are on par but yet we have local high schools that are above us.... Denton has the square, SA has the riverwalk, SM has the river... LAT has been winning for years, and putting kids into the NFL... UNT just hopes we can get a kid an NFL Tryout.... UTSA has kids stay at resort style Hotels, we have kids stay at a hotel 20 minutes away by a RaceTrack.... 

If you think that these are even close, then we have a bigger problem than just the poor recruiting

[GrandGreen]

10 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Look at the stuff LAT has done, and again UTSA has gone from nothing to something over its programs history. We have done 0 for football since Apogee.

My guess is they are not doing that by assuming every other program in the nation has advantages over them. 

You and other posters have bashed on this staff for not holding onto kids with P5 offers, Gage has multiple P5 offers and they got him to commit twice... Bradley left UNT for UH which has been in the recent past than most P5s in the state. 

I have never uttered a negative word about NT losing recruits to P5s.  So you apparently dreamed that one. 

Again students/recruits see the night life of SA compared to Denton as a plus and the river and being near Austin/6th street as a boost to SM. T

No there is nothing to do in the DFW metromess.   It is just about as easy for students to get to any point in DFW as UTSM students to get to 65th street or UTSA to the river walk.   Nether by the way is that big with the local college crowd.  

he reason why kids pick P5s over G5s are because of name and helping them get to the pros. Kids to look at the success of the school in terms of getting kids to the pros and what they have to offer.. UNT has no success of getting kids drafted, and if it wasn't a big deal, then why do you see kids at OSU taken pics in front of NFL Jerseys with NFL players on it or us having a wall of names of guys who have played in the NFL (because kids look at it). Kids also look at schools in terms of the success that they have on the field as well.. Kids are a lot more likely to look at a school and pick a school because of the Draft Success over the academics when it comes to recruiting, I would say more than half the time. 

Apparently, you believe that all recruits are swayed by the potential of their NFL future.  You have no basis at all for that assumption as it pertains to G5 level recruits.  Sure recent results are a big factor, however one that many coaches are able to conquer.  

No one is saying don't hold the staff responsible. The fans that you don't agree with are saying, we can't blame them (the staff) completely because they don't have the same resources (yet) as other programs. When we have facilities that are worse than most area high schools, its not on the coaching staff... Its on the ADs office. WB is in the process (its been said) of them announcing the IPF and the expansion of the Football offices as well. When we have facilities that can compare with other D1 programs and the recruiting stays this way then we have a problem. And yes Wins lead to more money, and this is a young staff, you think that they want to keep and stay at UNT? No these guys want to have success and move on. 

Again total crap.  NT has worst facilities than most area high schools, which high schools would that be?   What CUSA program has better overall facilities?   Talk about anyone else making baseless claims.  

Again, the questions posted to you, you didn't give any reasons as to why Denton is better than SA or SM... you didn't say why our facilites are better than Rice or LAT (when we can't even compete with local HS)... Nor did you answer why should recruits pass up bigger program offers for UNT. 

I never said Denton was better than San Antonio or San Marcos.  I said I preferred Denton.  It appears you might by surprised that there are a lot of people that don't think the Austin-San Antonio corridor is all that great.  

 Nothing like asking for more support for an argument when your assumptions are about as baseless as possible.  Your argument seems to be that SA is a big city, ignoring that Denton is in a much larger population mass.  San Marcos used to be a cool college town which is now Austin South.   I guess Ruston being more rural also has great location advantages over NT. 

UNT has potential and that potential can only be realized by investing in the program. A coach can get up and leave at any time for a P5 job or get fired. An IPF will not leave. Make this place attractive and the recruits will come, and how you make it attractive to recruits and coaches is by showing off the new shiny toys... So lets stop having a hissy-fit over why we can't land recruits 5 or 6 months before the early signing period, when a high school down the road has more toys then we do. 

Again, a really stupid completely baseless high school analogy.   Acknowledging that NT is getting consistently beat in recruiting by peers is far from a hissy fit.  

Facts don't care about your feelings.... You can say that our facilities are on par but yet we have local high schools that are above us.... Denton has the square, SA has the riverwalk, SM has the river... LAT has been winning for years, and putting kids into the NFL... UNT just hopes we can get a kid an NFL Tryout.... UTSA has kids stay at resort style Hotels, we have kids stay at a hotel 20 minutes away by a RaceTrack.... 

I wonder about fans with your viewpoint, seizing every adverse factors that you can conjure up some valid, many not; to support your view.  Completely ignoring the favorable factors that NT has and there are many over peer programs.  

If you think that these are even close, then we have a bigger problem than just the poor recruiting

What problem would that be, your statement makes absolutely no sense?

Excuses, excuses, excuses on top of excuses.   You are absolutely right no one should expect NT to compete with anybody for recruits.  

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by GrandGreen