DRC (updated): Kason Martin talks about committing to UNT

MGNation92 · June 20, 2017

The one thing I like Martin over every QB on our current roster outside of Shanbour is his release. It's very compact. Extremely important on timing routes. They usually work better when your QB isn't winding up for 5 seconds beforehand

Ben Gooding · June 20, 2017

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I was not high on Quinn, because he was a PWO but I bought into the hype of Morris because he was coming from Bama, and because everyone was in love with his offer list.

I have now come to the realization that its not about the offers, but how the player fits into the scheme. SL, GH, and Reff have coached and played for a while and have been in their current schemes for along time. We have to trust that they are able to find kids to turn this around.

Scheme? So I guess all the players we're losing to other programs that had multiple offers including from UNT fit into our scheme less than the players with 0 FBS offers?

Edited June 20, 2017 by Ben Gooding

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 20, 2017

The "fit into scheme" bit is baloney. It's an excuse. Troy Aikman...the guy ran the wishbone at OU under Switzer, broke his leg, then transferred to UCLA and slung it around to the tune of becoming an NFL star. He played under whatever scheme the school he enrolled in at the time ran.

"Fit into scheme." We are not getting top players. Scheme or no scheme. We're not even getting the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, etc. best.

Every player who is offer by anyone is going to be part of whatever scheme a coaching staff has. The whole, "well, we don't get certain players because of our scheme...." What kind of stupidity is that? In Texas, and everywhere else, almost every school throws the ball more than they run now. They all are running some form of the spread "scheme."

"Scheme." Baloney. We're just not recruiting FBS-ready players. "Scheme" talk is nothing more than admitting that you can't get the best, or anywhere near the best, so you are throwing in the towel and just taking whichever players will commit.

Lazy. "Scheme."

MeanGreenTexan · June 20, 2017

3 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Scheme? So I guess all the players we're losing to other programs that had multiple offers including from UNT fit into our scheme less than the players with 0 FBS offers?

I think the argument is that the scheme is more important than the players overall, not necessarily that we get guys to fit in our scheme?
We'd all better hope so because the proof rear itself on the field over the next few seasons.
No doubt Littrell's scheme is a very effective one. I think Reffett's is too. They've both proven that over their careers.

However, if you put me behind the wheel of a Ferrari and Michael Schumacher behind the wheel of a Civic and dropped us in Monte Carlo... who would win?

That age-old question of X's/O's VS Jimmies/Joes. Ideally, we could hit on both. So far, that hasn't been the case (at least, not on paper). This is the year for Littrell's 1st batch of guys to start proving him right & the recruiting services/other coaches wrong. We'll see.

MeanGreen_MBA · June 20, 2017

20 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

The "fit into scheme" bit is baloney. It's an excuse. Troy Aikman...the guy ran the wishbone at OU under Switzer, broke his leg, then transferred to UCLA and slung it around to the tune of becoming an NFL star. He played under whatever scheme the school he enrolled in at the time ran.

"Fit into scheme." We are not getting top players. Scheme or no scheme. We're not even getting the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, etc. best.

Every player who is offer by anyone is going to be part of whatever scheme a coaching staff has. The whole, "well, we don't get certain players because of our scheme...." What kind of stupidity is that? In Texas, and everywhere else, almost every school throws the ball more than they run now. They all are running some form of the spread "scheme."

"Scheme." Baloney. We're just not recruiting FBS-ready players. "Scheme" talk is nothing more than admitting that you can't get the best, or anywhere near the best, so you are throwing in the towel and just taking whichever players will commit.

Lazy. "Scheme."

Then Texas Tech should have about 6-8 QB's running roughshod over the NFL

Ben Gooding · June 20, 2017

5 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Then Texas Tech should have about 6-8 QB's running roughshod over the NFL

People always want to talk outliers when it fits their narrative.

For the record, they did just have a QB drafted in the top10.

So, you'd take a 0 offer QB over a 10 offer QB because scheme? Just trying to clear the air.

And didn't a lot of the same people during the McCarney recruiting classes say that stars/offer lists don't matter, fit does? I'm 100% sure they did. We all saw how that "fit" or "scheme" worked out.

forevereagle · June 20, 2017

29 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

For the record, they did just have a QB drafted in the top10.

And if he is successful, he would be the outlier.

BTG_Fan1 · June 20, 2017

4 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

People always want to talk outliers when it fits their narrative.

For the record, they did just have a QB drafted in the top10.

So, you'd take a 0 offer QB over a 10 offer QB because scheme? Just trying to clear the air.

And didn't a lot of the same people during the McCarney recruiting classes say that stars/offer lists don't matter, fit does? I'm 100% sure they did. We all saw how that "fit" or "scheme" worked out.

You can talk about outliners and that but people are just using examples of how Tech produced some of the passing numbers in all of the college football, and so has Hawaii. But yet none of those QBs did anything..Heck the best football team in the nation, Alabama couldn't even get a QB to get drafted high and they have only had 1 QB stick in the NFL and he isn't even a starter in the recent history. (But Tech produced the RD1 pick)

I would take whoever the best QB the coaches think for our system and potential. Just because kids have a great offer list does not make that kid more likely to be a great player either. An offer is just like a pro player getting a big contract, the offers are for what you have done and what teams hope that you can do. The more offers the better (Yes), but it does not mean that the player will work out. For ever 0/1/2 offer guy on the team that has done something, we have others that have had 3/4/5 that haven't done a thing!

McClain had 1 other offer from TXST in the 2014, but yet the guys with multiple offers in 2014 like Chumley and Goree had 5+ offers and they didn't/ haven't amounted to anything here. Mason Fine had 0 offers and replaced Morris, a kid that played at BAMA and had a huge offer list! We had a PWO WR replace Goree after he got kicked off the team, and we noticed the PWO more than we did Goree. Offer lists are sexy, but they mean ZERO once they are on the field.

No one will argue that the more offers the better or less the worse the player is. ITS ABOUT HOW THEY PRODUCE ON THE FIELD. Production on the field is done through a scheme, not through an offer list!

Eagleisland · June 20, 2017

8 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

You can talk about outliners and that but people are just using examples of how Tech produced some of the passing numbers in all of the college football, and so has Hawaii. But yet none of those QBs did anything..Heck the best football team in the nation, Alabama couldn't even get a QB to get drafted high and they have only had 1 QB stick in the NFL and he isn't even a starter in the recent history. (But Tech produced the RD1 pick)

I would take whoever the best QB the coaches think for our system and potential. Just because kids have a great offer list does not make that kid more likely to be a great player either. An offer is just like a pro player getting a big contract, the offers are for what you have done and what teams hope that you can do. The more offers the better (Yes), but it does not mean that the player will work out. For ever 0/1/2 offer guy on the team that has done something, we have others that have had 3/4/5 that haven't done a thing!

McClain had 1 other offer from TXST in the 2014, but yet the guys with multiple offers in 2014 like Chumley and Goree had 5+ offers and they didn't/ haven't amounted to anything here. Mason Fine had 0 offers and replaced Morris, a kid that played at BAMA and had a huge offer list! We had a PWO WR replace Goree after he got kicked off the team, and we noticed the PWO more than we did Goree. Offer lists are sexy, but they mean ZERO once they are on the field.

No one will argue that the more offers the better or less the worse the player is. ITS ABOUT HOW THEY PRODUCE ON THE FIELD. Production on the field is done through a scheme, not through an offer list!

As I said, the only test of the recruiting will be the results on the field.

UNTLifer · June 21, 2017

7 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

The "fit into scheme" bit is baloney. It's an excuse. Troy Aikman...the guy ran the wishbone at OU under Switzer, broke his leg, then transferred to UCLA and slung it around to the tune of becoming an NFL star. He played under whatever scheme the school he enrolled in at the time ran.

"Fit into scheme." We are not getting top players. Scheme or no scheme. We're not even getting the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, etc. best.

Every player who is offer by anyone is going to be part of whatever scheme a coaching staff has. The whole, "well, we don't get certain players because of our scheme...." What kind of stupidity is that? In Texas, and everywhere else, almost every school throws the ball more than they run now. They all are running some form of the spread "scheme."

"Scheme." Baloney. We're just not recruiting FBS-ready players. "Scheme" talk is nothing more than admitting that you can't get the best, or anywhere near the best, so you are throwing in the towel and just taking whichever players will commit.

Lazy. "Scheme."

Well looky there! Our recent commit is ranked #8 by Texas Football and ahead of a number of P5 commits.

http://www.texasfootball.com/2018qb/

I would say that is "FBS ready."

Edited June 21, 2017 by UNTLifer

Ben Gooding · June 21, 2017

28 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Well looky there! Our recent commit is ranked #8 by Texas Football and ahead of a number of P5 commits.

http://www.texasfootball.com/2018qb/

I would say that is "FBS ready."

That's great. I hope he has a good sr yr.

Ftr, my complaints aren't on this kid or any kid in particular. It's the lack of overall recruiting momentum that has me concerned. No way anyone can confince me we are finding diamond after diamond in the rough, or that each kid is magically a good schematic fit.

UNTLifer · June 21, 2017

8 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Ftr, my complaints aren't on this kid or any kid in particular. It's the lack of overall recruiting momentum that has me concerned. No way anyone can confince me we are finding diamond after diamond in the rough, or that each kid is magically a good schematic fit.

Not directly, but when you bitch nonstop after every new commitment, then you are indirectly complaining about them joining North Texas. I don't know why that is so hard to fathom. Would you be pissed if the #1 rated QB in the state, as rated by Texas Football, committed without the other offers that fit your needs?

Edited June 21, 2017 by UNTLifer

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 21, 2017

19 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Then Texas Tech should have about 6-8 QB's running roughshod over the NFL

No, they shouldn't because they don't have any QBs that know how to play QB like they do in the NFL. The Chiefs wasted a draft pick on Mahomes, who will sit behind Alex Smith anyway. That was their prerogative. All other NFL franchises understand the failure of Texas Tech QB in the pros.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 21, 2017

12 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Well looky there! Our recent commit is ranked #8 by Texas Football and ahead of a number of P5 commits.

http://www.texasfootball.com/2018qb/

I would say that is "FBS ready."

Makes sense. There are 12 FBS schools in Texas, and we are getting a guy no P5 in or out of state wants. If you assume the QB were to go in order to the top FBS Texas schools, yeah, 8-12 is us...and UTSA, Texas State, UTEP, Rice...so, it's the right place.

In the real world, though, when you go to a real, national recruiting source, though, you see who the top QBs from Texas really are, and this kid isn't listed:
Dual-Threat - https://n.rivals.com/position_rankings/football/2018/DUAL
Texas preps check in at #11, #18, #20, #21, and #26
#s 11, 18, and 20 are committed to Mississippi State, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma, respectively. #s 21 and 26 are not committed yet, but do not list us. #21 does have an offer from Arkansas State; SMU is the top G5 offer for #26. We have offered neither of them.

Pro-Style - https://n.rivals.com/position_rankings/football/2018/PRO
Texas preps check in at #16 and #22, and are committed to Texas Tech and BYU

So, what does it tell us? Well, it tells us what we already know: our coaching staff isn't recruiting the top QBs in Texas. Teams from our of state are. Other G5s are.

We are left, then, with what we are left with - a "Texas Football" list guy who has already been seen and passed over by everyone else...even in Texas.

Very sad that a nationally ranked kid from Texas has an offer from Arkansas State, and we are where?

Again, some of us are simply not buying the same bullsh*t we may have bought with Dodge and McCarney. The results have looked the same for Littrell's first two classes; and the third class isn't being filled with anything different either.

BTG_Fan1 · June 21, 2017

50 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

No, they shouldn't because they don't have any QBs that know how to play QB like they do in the NFL. The Chiefs wasted a draft pick on Mahomes, who will sit behind Alex Smith anyway. That was their prerogative. All other NFL franchises understand the failure of Texas Tech QB in the pros.

Just saying but Brady and Manning won super bowls out of the spread.

Also, didn't GH win a Super Bowl as the back up?

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 21, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Just saying but Brady and Manning won super bowls out of the spread.

Also, didn't GH win a Super Bowl as the back up?

And, so what does that have to do with UNT recruiting non-FBS players. Brady, Manning, and even GH played at schools that were D-IA/FBS.

You are making my argument for me - the best players will win. It isn't a system winning. How many Super Bowl have the Colts won with Andrew Luck? How many did New England win before Brady?

How many Super Bowl did the Houston Oilers win? They brought the high flying spread into the NFL.

The players play the game. The best will make any system work. Colleges who can't get top recruits have coaching staff who are forced to say, "Well, we recruit to our system." Dumb. As if no other college "recruits to their system." Other colleges are simply recruiting the best players into their system/scheme.

Sorry, man, some of us are too long in the tooth to be fooled anymore.

MeanGreen_MBA · June 21, 2017

58 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

No, they shouldn't because they don't have any QBs that know how to play QB like they do in the NFL. The Chiefs wasted a draft pick on Mahomes, who will sit behind Alex Smith anyway. That was their prerogative. All other NFL franchises understand the failure of Texas Tech QB in the pros.

right...I was referencing that schemes can sometimes fit a CFP particular talent

Green Crazy · June 21, 2017

22 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

The one thing I like Martin over every QB on our current roster outside of Shanbour is his release. It's very compact. Extremely important on timing routes. They usually work better when your QB isn't winding up for 5 seconds beforehand

https://swcroundup.com/news/2017/6/20/wednesday-playcard?utm_content=buffere4c18&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

A few observations:

Manvel had a lot of very good high school talent on the roster.
The Mavericks play in a very good district with solid teams from Fort Bend, traditionally good program Texas City, Galveston Ball, and Galena Park. Add to that the fact that they played 6A powerhouse Pearland and defending 6A State champ North Shore in non-district action. The Mavs beat both of those teams.
Martin has a long throwing motion, that includes what we call an elongated holstering action where he brings the ball off his shoulder, down to his hip, and around to get into his motion.
He tends to leave his feet on throws. This may be because he's trying to throw the ball hard, with more velocity, but its counterproductive.
He's accurate (shockingly he didn't throw an incompletion on his highlight tape). But what we mean is he throws the ball to spots well, where his receiver/pass catcher can make a play.
Martin moves pretty well in the pocket. Throws well on the run.
He struggles to set his feet at times, he looks very robotic, not fluid.
When he wants to he can uncork it. He throws with accuracy while throwing with velocity.

This isn't to pick on anyone, just saying others disagree.

BTG_Fan1 · June 22, 2017

22 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

And, so what does that have to do with UNT recruiting non-FBS players. Brady, Manning, and even GH played at schools that were D-IA/FBS.

You are making my argument for me - the best players will win. It isn't a system winning. How many Super Bowl have the Colts won with Andrew Luck? How many did New England win before Brady?

How many Super Bowl did the Houston Oilers win? They brought the high flying spread into the NFL.

The players play the game. The best will make any system work. Colleges who can't get top recruits have coaching staff who are forced to say, "Well, we recruit to our system." Dumb. As if no other college "recruits to their system." Other colleges are simply recruiting the best players into their system/scheme.

Sorry, man, some of us are too long in the tooth to be fooled anymore.

What it has to do with UNT is that scheme can translate to the pros.

Also, yes it's great to have the best recruits but it doesn't always translate to wins. Bama signs some of the top classes and loss, UT/A&M sign some of the best classes in the state and loses.

The logic that the best player work in all schemes are wrong. We see this all the time and it happened with Morris. He was by far the most talented and had the best offer list of probably any UNT QB. TCU when they were in CUSA and other G5s, they would recruit RBs and then move them around because the players could/would project into their schemes. Less talented teams have to use the spread scheme to their advantage. That is how Oregon went from a nobody to someone. Phil Knoght poured in millions into the facilities, which gave recruits another reason to consider Oregon. Also, bringing in Kelly made it so the offense was attractive, even though he came from D2 at Delaware. The reason that the best teams are recruiting the best kids, is because the best kids fit the scheme.

Being to long in the tooth is fine, but college football is turning into a new systems game. Kids want to go to the best schools, that can make them the best player, and that can get them to the pros.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 22, 2017

40 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What it has to do with UNT is that scheme can translate to the pros.

Also, yes it's great to have the best recruits but it doesn't always translate to wins. Bama signs some of the top classes and loss, UT/A&M sign some of the best classes in the state and loses.

The logic that the best player work in all schemes are wrong. We see this all the time and it happened with Morris. He was by far the most talented and had the best offer list of probably any UNT QB. TCU when they were in CUSA and other G5s, they would recruit RBs and then move them around because the players could/would project into their schemes. Less talented teams have to use the spread scheme to their advantage. That is how Oregon went from a nobody to someone. Phil Knoght poured in millions into the facilities, which gave recruits another reason to consider Oregon. Also, bringing in Kelly made it so the offense was attractive, even though he came from D2 at Delaware. The reason that the best teams are recruiting the best kids, is because the best kids fit the scheme.

Being to long in the tooth is fine, but college football is turning into a new systems game. Kids want to go to the best schools, that can make them the best player, and that can get them to the pros.

Morris threw for multiple TDs every game he played. Fine did not. Many here will argue, and rightly so, that Littrell panicked far too soon on Morris.

Also, neither Brady nor Manning played in spread offenses in college, okay? Bringing them into a UNT QB discussion is...I don't even know what it is. Graham Harrell never sniffed an NFL starting position, and wasn't worthy of even carrying the clipboard for more than a couple of seasons. To pretend that he had anything to do with Green Bay's Super Bowl win is to do just that, pretend.

We are not getting great talent at QB, and certainly not anyone any other FBS is seriously considering. That is a problem for the future of the program - if we want to be consistently competitive.

Ben Gooding · June 22, 2017

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What it has to do with UNT is that scheme can translate to the pros.

Also, yes it's great to have the best recruits but it doesn't always translate to wins. Bama signs some of the top classes and loss, UT/A&M sign some of the best classes in the state and loses.

The logic that the best player work in all schemes are wrong. We see this all the time and it happened with Morris. He was by far the most talented and had the best offer list of probably any UNT QB. TCU when they were in CUSA and other G5s, they would recruit RBs and then move them around because the players could/would project into their schemes. Less talented teams have to use the spread scheme to their advantage. That is how Oregon went from a nobody to someone. Phil Knoght poured in millions into the facilities, which gave recruits another reason to consider Oregon. Also, bringing in Kelly made it so the offense was attractive, even though he came from D2 at Delaware. The reason that the best teams are recruiting the best kids, is because the best kids fit the scheme.

Being to long in the tooth is fine, but college football is turning into a new systems game. Kids want to go to the best schools, that can make them the best player, and that can get them to the pros.

This might be the dumbest thing you've said to date.

So, with your logic, we recruit and sign the worse (or lowly recruited) players because they appearantly fit our scheme better?

And just so you know, way more teams run some variation of the spread nowadays. We just do it with lower recruited players. We will also be trying to defend this system with lower recruited players.

Your argument base, up to this point, is or almost is as if recruiting does not even really matter. As long as they have some kind of athletic bravado, we can throw them out on the field and win?

MeanGreenTexan · June 22, 2017

We're gonna have a real tough time finding DL who fit coach Reffett's "scheme". Mainly because his defense is not common in the H.S. ranks.

Instead, like every other coach/scheme/whatever, you find guys who you can plug in with skills abilities that you can use. Littrell & Co. seem to be able to find plenty of guys who can seemingly do so. Their problem is that when other schools also identify the same players (whether they run a different "scheme" or not), they can't convince the players to play at UNT instead of <XYZ school>.

untjim1995 · June 22, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

We're gonna have a real tough time finding DL who fit coach Reffett's "scheme". Mainly because his defense is not common in the H.S. ranks.

Instead, like every other coach/scheme/whatever, you find guys who you can plug in with skills abilities that you can use. Littrell & Co. seem to be able to find plenty of guys who can seemingly do so. Their problem is that when other schools also identify the same players (whether they run a different "scheme" or not), they can't convince the players to play at UNT instead of <XYZ school>.

Very few want to admit that the last sentence you posted above is THE problem. Its not that Seth or DMac or Dodge or even Dickey weren't able to make connections with these recruits or their coaches and parents, its that these other college coaches can easily influence them all to take a second look at committing to UNT and that is when the reality of our history becomes an albatross around the coaching staff's neck.

Winning the SBC 4 years in a row didn't fix it. Hiring the hottest name in Texas HS Football didn't fix it. Winning 9 games and the HoD Bowl game under a coach with skins on the wall and an uber-optimistic attitude (at the time) didn't change it. And, so far, a young offensively-minded coach who improved the program immensely in just one year hasn't moved the needle. The only thing that has stayed the same is the reputation. Now, with the funds we are investing into the program (finally) and the fact that we showed everyone we will fire a coach well before his contract becomes affordable to buy out, maybe this will finally start to convince these Tx HS Coaches and parents that their sons should take a look at UNT as more than a safety net.

BTG_Fan1 · June 22, 2017

4 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Morris threw for multiple TDs every game he played. Fine did not. Many here will argue, and rightly so, that Littrell panicked far too soon on Morris.

Also, neither Brady nor Manning played in spread offenses in college, okay? Bringing them into a UNT QB discussion is...I don't even know what it is. Graham Harrell never sniffed an NFL starting position, and wasn't worthy of even carrying the clipboard for more than a couple of seasons. To pretend that he had anything to do with Green Bay's Super Bowl win is to do just that, pretend.

We are not getting great talent at QB, and certainly not anyone any other FBS is seriously considering. That is a problem for the future of the program - if we want to be consistently competitive.

Morris yes throw multi-TDs and I was a huge fan of Morris that wanted him to play more but he still only won 1 game! He lost it vs SMU, UTEP, Army. We can go back and wish and hope about what could have been, but he was a guy who gave away to many possessions, while Fine took to many sacks.

The point about those guys are that they played in it in the NFL with guys who were not talented. Manning and Brady made guys that were afterthoughts into something special and something they were not. It can be done in college game as well.

We can think that we are not getting talent but we are on here as a hobby/ thing to do while the people getting paid are saying that these kids are potentially solid players at QB. Many people around the state have said positive things about Pearson and Martin. In a year having Martin, Pearson, Fine, Izzy, hell even Quinn battling it out is a lot better than just Morris and Fine at this time last year.

3 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

This might be the dumbest thing you've said to date.

So, with your logic, we recruit and sign the worse (or lowly recruited) players because they appearantly fit our scheme better?

And just so you know, way more teams run some variation of the spread nowadays. We just do it with lower recruited players. We will also be trying to defend this system with lower recruited players.

Your argument base, up to this point, is or almost is as if recruiting does not even really matter. As long as they have some kind of athletic bravado, we can throw them out on the field and win?

The point that I've made repeatly is that UNT doesn't have the tools that kids want most of the time. We don't have the facilities of other schools that people like to compare us too. That is one of the reason we lose recruits. We lose recruits because of the crappy record for years, and everyone knowing UNT for losing. Kids know UNT has a history of losing, kids know UNT doesn't have the facilities (yet, we hope). Kids view UNT has the back up school. Most Kids want to go to places like TCU/UT/AM then Tech/OSU then UNT.

Yes a lot of schools run different versions of the spread, but not all kids come in and fit in. Hell we ran a power run spread under Mac, according your logic it should be simple for us go from one to the other. No some of these kids are built for our scheme. Hell look at Jordan Murray, he is a straight ahead blocker not a quicker tackle.

We have to find kids that fit our scheme or that have skills that can translate to this schem. I want and trust this staff to find the right fits, you can think that they find bad recruits but yet they have added talented kids with no other offers, in Wilson, Hambone, Wheeler, Dee among others. yes bring in the best kids possible, but we are competing with a bunch of programs that come in here for Air-RAID similar to what we play, LAT,Tech, UH, AM, OSU, TCU, Baylor, just to name a few of the local schools. We can't not compete with any of these schools success, bowls, next level production, facilities, let alone scheme production, or even name recognition of the school with the bigger schools. If we can't get the best kids, which to this point what has changed outside of a bowl game since SL has gotten here? Nothing. Not one announcement about new facilities, not one real upgrade to the current facilities. Hell we are waiting on an announcement about new unis and the IPF because of $. Announce the IPF, announce the other upgrades and then people will donate. Show off the new uniforms to be getting the attention or keeping the attention of recruits. UNT it's always something is coming then it never does come. Hell they announced the soccer stadium and then pushed it back. This is something else that hurts us.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 23, 2017

You are way out of whack with the Brady/Manning thing. Manning didn't "make" Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. Those were both First Round draft picks, like Manning himself.

And, even with New England using spare parts receivers, you still have to have a QB that can get the ball where it needs to be. You must be kidding if you think we have anything close to a QB like that on our roster.

I think we've gone three seasons in a row now without a QB who could complete 60% of passes attempted. We don't have the QBs or WRs to do it.

And, that's the point - we aren't recruiting the type of QBs and WRs who can do it at this level. We are recruiting players coveted by FCS and Division II schools. FBS coaches pick up early and at camps that they aren't ready.

This is what we do, "Okay, he winds up like a baseball pitcher; we'll coach it out of him." We take on projects, not ready pieces. At FCS and Division II level, where the action is slower all around, it doesn't matter as much that a QB's mechanics are a mess...or, that WRs run sloppy routes and/or take off plays that aren't going to involve them more than being a blocker or decoy.

So, we'll simply agree to disagree, for the sake of ending the discussion:
-Some of us see the same thing happening with Littrell's recruiting that happened to the four prior coaches and call it like it is - we are spending more to spin our wheels.
-Others will continue to hold out for the one in a million "slip through the crack" combination of "overlooked" QBs and WRs to win maybe two seasons in a row, believing we are spending $1 million wisely for that lottery chance.