DRC (updated): Kason Martin talks about committing to UNT

MeanGreen_MBA · June 19, 2017

3 minutes ago, GrayEagle said:

I trust Coach Harrell on this. Admittedly, it's almost impossible to believe that Martin, in his first year as a starter, threw for nearly 3,500 yards and 46 touchdowns while earning Greater Houston Newcomer of the Year without receiving one FBS offer.

Bottom line...if Graham's evaluation is correct, I believe that we've found a hidden jewel.

somebody has to be the first to make an offer....Why Not UNT???

meangreenacct · June 19, 2017

Very excited for this pick up. Welcome to UNT Kason. At this point I'm not going to worry about who didn't offer him and just be thankful that he is coming to #NewDenton. I think in this case, fit with the system is going to trump "stars" and after his senior season we will all be thankful when he signs on the dotted lines. If he has any friends from Manvel who haven't made their decisions yet, feel free to recruit them for us Kason!

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

4 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Two ways to be good at recruiting: be better at selling or be better at choosing. Right now, Seth is opting to go the be better at choosing route. Neither way is easy.

We can whine all day that we aren't winning recruiting batttles, but Seth's first season was a success. And as long as he keeps succeeding then I will give him the benefit of the doubt on recruiting.

Agreed, if SL can keep winning on the field, the recruiting will improve. UNT has alot of going against it in recruiting compared to other schools. The on-field is something you have the most control over.

54 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

That's a fact, not an attack. I obviously hope he does exceptionally well.

Morris had multiple D1 offers... how did that turn out? I'm asking for a friend

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

47 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Agreed, if SL can keep winning on the field, the recruiting will improve. UNT has alot of going against it in recruiting compared to other schools. The on-field is something you have the most control over.

Morris had multiple D1 offers... how did that turn out? I'm asking for a friend

This doesn't even make sense. Had Morris been at a place like UNT his entire career he would've been an all conference QB and would've shattered most, if not all, of the UNT QB records by the time he was done.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

This doesn't even make sense. Had Morris been at a place like UNT his entire career he would've been an all conference QB and would've shattered most, if not all, of the UNT QB records by the time he was done.

How can you say that he would have shattered all the records and everything? I was a huge fan of Morris but he was far from great.

The point is kids that have multiple offers still fail at the G5 level. You may be pissed off that Martin doesn't have more offers, but he is the commit of the class. He is ranked highly by DC Texas Football over the likes of the kids going to Tech a P5 and LAT, a school that people on here compare us too when we have far more in common with the likes of SMU/TXST/UTSA than LAT.

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

How can you say that he would have shattered all the records and everything? I was a huge fan of Morris but he was far from great.

The point is kids that have multiple offers still fail at the G5 level. You may be pissed off that Martin doesn't have more offers, but he is the commit of the class. He is ranked highly by DC Texas Football over the likes of the kids going to Tech a P5 and LAT, a school that people on here compare us too when we have far more in common with the likes of SMU/TXST/UTSA than LAT.

Because he had the tools and moxy to be a good QB at the CUSA level. He was a first time starter and only a 4 game starter to add for his career. Had he had the reps over the course of his career as a starter or even QB2, he would've been dangerously good in this league.

And remember, breaking UNT QB records are not necessarily something to thump your chest about. But he could've and IMO would've given the circumstances I suggested. But that's heresay, not even sure why that's being brought up. He played at a university that has lost 10-12 game in 10 years, the best program during this stretch. You're comparing kiwis with watermelons as if you have a point.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Because he had the tools and moxy to be a good QB at the CUSA level. He was a first time starter and only a 4 game starter to add for his career. Had he had the reps over the course of his career as a starter or even QB2, he would've been dangerously good in this league.

And remember, breaking UNT QB records are not necessarily something to thump your chest about. But he could've and IMO would've given the circumstances I suggested. But that's heresay, not even sure why that's being brought up. He played at a university that has lost 10-12 game in 10 years, the best program during this stretch. You're comparing kiwis with watermelons as if you have a point.

Yes Morris had the Size, and the Arm Strength but the dude was not able to be complete more than something like 53% of his passes, and he had to many costly turnovers. We can keep saying what may or may not have happened with him but we will never know. We can say that he was a great guy in the QB Room, but from his twitter posts, he did not want to be in Denton, and on video we have from the sidelines it was always Quinn that would talk/work with Fine, not Morris and Fine. Morris was a "ME" player, and they very rarely, if ever work out at QB.

You can say that he had the traits to be a good QB but he never was. That is why he never played 1 serious down at Bama! He left when they had a completely open competition and it was him and a True Freshman. He only played because Fine was injured. Your comparing what is fiction and what is real life...

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Yes Morris had the Size, and the Arm Strength but the dude was not able to be complete more than something like 53% of his passes, and he had to many costly turnovers. We can keep saying what may or may not have happened with him but we will never know. We can say that he was a great guy in the QB Room, but from his twitter posts, he did not want to be in Denton, and on video we have from the sidelines it was always Quinn that would talk/work with Fine, not Morris and Fine. Morris was a "ME" player, and they very rarely, if ever work out at QB.

You can say that he had the traits to be a good QB but he never was. That is why he never played 1 serious down at Bama! He left when they had a completely open competition and it was him and a True Freshman. He only played because Fine was injured. Your comparing what is fiction and what is real life...

He started game 1. Had better stats than Fine in limited action. And Morris was never in a 2 way battle for the QB position at Bama, ever. Matter of fact, he was a 3rd stringer his last season there and Hurts wasn't even in the picture yet. But don't let the real facts get in your way.

And what does this matter to BAD recruiting at UNT right NOW!!?? Connect the dots for me...

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

15 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

He started game 1. Had better stats than Fine in limited action. And Morris was never in a 2 way battle for the QB position at Bama, ever. Matter of fact, he was a 3rd stringer his last season there and Hurts wasn't even in the picture yet. But don't let the real facts get in your way.

And what does this matter to BAD recruiting at UNT right NOW!!?? Connect the dots for me...

Morris would have been in competetion with Hurts for this past season, the one that he was at UNT.

Oh my bad he started 1 game at Bama... oh man!

Yes Morris had better stats, and as I said earlier I was a huge Morris Fan and wanted him to play out the year as well because he had traits, but from the outside looking in he was not a leader. The only reason he wore the C and was out there for the coin flip was because, how could we not have a RS SR QB from Bama not be the leader of this offense? He was a "ME" player, dear lord look at the dudes tweets. He was so happy to get out of Denton.

And what this has to do with bad recruiting is that kids with multiple offers still amount to nothing! Morris was a flop at Bama, Morris was a flop at UNT! Who cares if he had how every many other G5 and P5 offers. The dude was a FLOP! In the eyes of most people on this board, it would be a homerun because of his offer list, but the dude was a FLOP!

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

8 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Morris would have been in competetion with Hurts for this past season, the one that he was at UNT.

Oh my bad he started 1 game at Bama... oh man!

Yes Morris had better stats, and as I said earlier I was a huge Morris Fan and wanted him to play out the year as well because he had traits, but from the outside looking in he was not a leader. The only reason he wore the C and was out there for the coin flip was because, how could we not have a RS SR QB from Bama not be the leader of this offense? He was a "ME" player, dear lord look at the dudes tweets. He was so happy to get out of Denton.

And what this has to do with bad recruiting is that kids with multiple offers still amount to nothing! Morris was a flop at Bama, Morris was a flop at UNT! Who cares if he had how every many other G5 and P5 offers. The dude was a FLOP! In the eyes of most people on this board, it would be a homerun because of his offer list, but the dude was a FLOP!

Jalen Hurts was not the only QB that was hypothetically going to be in the QB battle with Morris had he stayed. Not even close.

You are talking about outliers. Exceptions. Sure, players bust. But the likelihood of a player being good is far greater if they have a respectable offer list and a decent rating. The likelihood of being a 1-11 team is having a double digit as your conference ranking with a bunch of NR guys or 0 offer players. Are you misunderstanding this in someway? Let me know if I can make it any clearer...At this point though I'm not sure I even could.

MeanGreen_MBA · June 19, 2017

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

Jalen Hurts was not the only QB that was hypothetically going to be in the QB battle with Morris had he stayed. Not even close.

You are talking about outliers. Exceptions. Sure, players bust. But the likelihood of a player being good is far greater if they have a respectable offer list and a decent rating. The likelihood of being a 1-11 team is having a double digit as your conference ranking with a bunch of NR guys or 0 offer players. Are you misunderstanding this in someway? Let me know if I can make it any clearer...At this point though I'm not sure I even could.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2015/2/10/8007929/why-the-college-football-recruiting-class-rankings-are-flawed-metrics-talent-blue-chip

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

16 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2015/2/10/8007929/why-the-college-football-recruiting-class-rankings-are-flawed-metrics-talent-blue-chip

The chart midway down analyzing 2013 conf champs and their recruiting classes is telling. Most had top third conference talent. There are anomalies in there with UCF and Stanford. But both had starting QB's that are currently sitting on NFL rosters. And having a well above average college QB is a game changer.

As for all the blue chip talk, that doesn't apply to us.

I'm sorry people can't grasp this simple concept of needing to recruit better. We can't continue to stay in double digits in CUSA and truly expect big things. It's something that very rarely happens. I feel like I'm talking in circles. The apathy is strong with this fan base.

MeanGreen_MBA · June 19, 2017

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

The chart midway down analyzing 2013 conf champs and their recruiting classes is telling. Most had top third conference talent. There are anomalies in there with UCF and Stanford. But both had starting QB's that are currently sitting on NFL rosters. And having a well above average college QB is a game changer.

As for all the blue chip talk, that doesn't apply to us.

I'm sorry people can't grasp this simple concept of needing to recruit better. We can't continue to stay in double digits in CUSA and truly expect big things. It's something that very rarely happens. I feel like I'm talking in circles. The apathy is strong with this fan base.

you missed the point of the article. There are plenty of not highly rated players out there that not accounted for by the rating groups. Players that can picked up by hard working coaches who take a different tactic in recruiting. So, lets see how the recruits do in the long term before bashing the coaches for not following your criteria for recruiting....

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

19 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Jalen Hurts was not the only QB that was hypothetically going to be in the QB battle with Morris had he stayed. Not even close.

You are talking about outliers. Exceptions. Sure, players bust. But the likelihood of a player being good is far greater if they have a respectable offer list and a decent rating. The likelihood of being a 1-11 team is having a double digit as your conference ranking with a bunch of NR guys or 0 offer players. Are you misunderstanding this in someway? Let me know if I can make it any clearer...At this point though I'm not sure I even could.

It wasn't a hypothetical question. It was Morris as the elder QB, and a freshman that was coming in with the previous starter having graduated. Morris spent what 1 or 2 years in the same offense while Hurts was just walking onto campus. Morris left because he wanted to be handed the job and not compete for it.

Morris was a bust no matter what for Bama, because he was a back up for all those years and never amounted to anything outside of a 2nd or 3rd string QB and backed up 3 other QBs, 1 which was transfer to Bama because of the lack of talent at the QB position, and another QB that I believe turned into an RB in the NFL in Sims.

Yes we would all like to add kids with a list of schools wanting them, but the offer list does not matter if these kids fit the scheme! The scheme and how plays are designed win games, not offer sheets!

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

The chart midway down analyzing 2013 conf champs and their recruiting classes is telling. Most had top third conference talent. There are anomalies in there with UCF and Stanford. But both had starting QB's that are currently sitting on NFL rosters. And having a well above average college QB is a game changer.

As for all the blue chip talk, that doesn't apply to us.

I'm sorry people can't grasp this simple concept of needing to recruit better. We can't continue to stay in double digits in CUSA and truly expect big things. It's something that very rarely happens. I feel like I'm talking in circles. The apathy is strong with this fan base.

We will not recruit better if we don't improve the things kids are looking at. You think Wilson can sale kids on coming to UNT that has a SUBPAR highschool weight room and no IPF which most local highschools have now, sale kids on coming to UNT when they can't get 1 player drafted, and sale kids on coming to a school that has more losing decades than winning ones LOL

oldguystudent · June 19, 2017

UNTLifer · June 19, 2017

Welcome to North Texas Kason. Work hard and you will be successful.

Cr1028 · June 19, 2017

12 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

It's an imperfect system that proves itself to be extremely accurate year after year. Not to be catty, but you could add up roster stars and predict W/L records with relative precision. That's kind of the point I'm making and why we need to step up our recruiting, quickly.

As far as unsafe..Typically NR prospects or 1 FBS offer prospects do not produce at this level with any kind of consistency. The coaching staff is banking on their developmental coaching which has proven to be a failing formula at UNT. Alllll of UNT's success over the course of the last 2 decades came after signing above our norm. I do not know why this is difficult for people to understand. I have said it on this site probably 200 times over the course of 5 years and people keep arguing it and the results keep remaining the same.

If UNT wins 8+ games this year, I'll exit stage left on this topic. In the meantime, it needs to be hammered home.

You're talking correlation not causation. Higher rated classes don't necessarily have more wins, ask Todd Dodge. Lower rated classes don't necessarily mean failure either, look at old man Snyder at KSU.

Marty · June 20, 2017

Welcome aboard Kason!

Ben Gooding · June 20, 2017

9 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

You're talking correlation not causation. Higher rated classes don't necessarily have more wins, ask Todd Dodge. Lower rated classes don't necessarily mean failure either, look at old man Snyder at KSU.

Ok.

untjim1995 · June 20, 2017

18 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2015/2/10/8007929/why-the-college-football-recruiting-class-rankings-are-flawed-metrics-talent-blue-chip

Somehow, I doubt this article is being posted on La Texh's board or UTSA's board.

Its ok to admit that we have pretty much always sucked at recruiting compared to our peers. Whether that's because we have just missed on every single coaching hire we've hired, save for Dodge's initial wave of interest, or because our reputation is basically easy to sell against (which I believe to be the issue), our struggles are real. We've had 4 winning seasons at this level since 1995. That's not hard to recruit against...

UNTLifer · June 20, 2017

Yet another thread set up to talk about a commitment with the young man's name in the title that takes a negative turn. Take it elsewhere.

Love the early commitment Kason. Any chance you can talk a teammate of two to come with you to Denton?

Cr1028 · June 20, 2017

19 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Oh my bad he started 1 game at Bama... oh man

@Ben Gooding said he started Game 1, meaning our game vs SMU.

He never started a game at Alabama. He only played in reserve for Alabama in one game. It was vs. Charleston Southern and he completed 1 pass for 6 yards. Basically, all the negative things said about Shanbour's inexperience could've been said about Morris.

Ben Gooding · June 20, 2017

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Somehow, I doubt this article is being posted on La Texh's board or UTSA's board.

Its ok to admit that we have pretty much always sucked at recruiting compared to our peers. Whether that's because we have just missed on every single coaching hire we've hired, save for Dodge's initial wave of interest, or because our reputation is basically easy to sell against (which I believe to be the issue), our struggles are real. We've had 4 winning seasons at this level since 1995. That's not hard to recruit against...

That's our issue. You think we put together 3 or 4 2013 seasons in a row with no draft picks we'd be throwing fishing hooks into the FCS pond? I think not.

Running off Dickey started a downward spiral for this program. The information age was just on the real brink of takeoff at that time and that action caused us to fall on our face for the college football world to start seeing in almost real time. #thanksRV

38 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Yet another thread set up to talk about a commitment with the young man's name in the title that takes a negative turn. Take it elsewhere.

Love the early commitment Kason. Any chance you can talk a teammate of two to come with you to Denton?

Then change the title. This isn't some uncommon reaction. And the reactions will become increasingly more with the more commits we get if there is no improvement.

Kudos for this kid. I'm glad he's with us. I hope he blows up his Sr year and gets buckets of offers and chooses to stay with us.

But, for now, this commit (0 offense to this kid) is par for the current course.

Cr1028 · June 20, 2017

34 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

That's our issue. You think we put together 3 or 4 2013 seasons in a row with no draft picks we'd be throwing fishing hooks into the FCS pond? I think not.

Running off Dickey started a downward spiral for this program. The information age was just on the real brink of takeoff at that time and that action caused us to fall on our face for the college football world to start seeing in almost real time. #thanksRV

You must not have been around in 2005 or 2006.

34 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Then change the title. This isn't some uncommon reaction. And the reactions will become increasingly more with the more commits we get if there is no improvement.

Kudos for this kid. I'm glad he's with us. I hope he blows up his Sr year and gets buckets of offers and chooses to stay with us.

But, for now, this commit (0 offense to this kid) is par for the current course.

Keep on perpetuating. If he gets buckets of offers, he won't stay with us because he is a 17 year old high school star, and will go where he is wanted and you make it clear to every early commit that visits this board, that they are not worthy of us because they committed before they had a substantial offer list. Pearson was only offered by Wyoming and us. He stayed true to his commitment and looked damn good in the spring game for a guy that should've been getting ready for prom. Maybe had he left his recruitment open longer before committing he would've gotten several more offers, who knows? All I know is the kid can play and I'm damn glad he chose us. I look forward to having the same feeling about Kason Martin, offer lists be damned.

BTG_Fan1 · June 20, 2017

2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

@Ben Gooding said he started Game 1, meaning our game vs SMU.

He never started a game at Alabama. He only played in reserve for Alabama in one game. It was vs. Charleston Southern and he completed 1 pass for 6 yards. Basically, all the negative things said about Shanbour's inexperience could've been said about Morris.

I was not high on Quinn, because he was a PWO but I bought into the hype of Morris because he was coming from Bama, and because everyone was in love with his offer list.

I have now come to the realization that its not about the offers, but how the player fits into the scheme. SL, GH, and Reff have coached and played for a while and have been in their current schemes for along time. We have to trust that they are able to find kids to turn this around.