This is a challenge

BillySee58 · June 19, 2017

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Cade Pearson had an offer from Wyoming

Siggers lists Texas Tech, Louisville and New Mexico

Darden lists UNLV, ULM, Memphis, Southern Miss, and Va Tech

White lists Ohio and Tulane

Cameron Johnson lists Air Force, Army, East Carolina, Fresno State and NMSU.

The above courtesy of 247sports.

Seems like that comment about 16 of the last 17 commits is inaccurate.

Cameron Johnson is not among the last 17. Neither was Pearson. The last 17 have all come since dead period ended in January.

When Siggers committed to us on January 31st, he had our hat, two FCS schools' hats (I believe Grambling and Texas Southern), and a Texas Tech hat on the table. His Texas Tech offer had come roughly 20 months prior to that date. If anyone thinks Tech was actually still recruiting him at the time, then they got duped by a 17 year-old putting a hat on a table.

http://247sports.com/Player/Tre-Siggers-83677/TimelineEvents

Jaelon Darden decommitted from UNLV on December 7th. After that he received just one offer, from Texas Southern. He was set to make his commitment on twitter, then a last minute offer from us after Trevone Bradley told our coaches he was going to Houston the night before NSD caused Darden to cancel his announcement and re-evaluate things. He then chose us over Texas Southern. All the offers you mentioned were from long before.

http://247sports.com/Player/Jaelon-Darden-86078/TimelineEvents

And White was committed to Grambling when we flipped him. And not because he wanted to play FCS ball over Ohio and Tulane, only to then change his mind when we came in. Again, outdated offers.

http://247sports.com/Player/Gregory-White-81322/TimelineEvents

Decent pickups. Players who FBS coaches did believe were good enough to play at this level. But players who our coaches were able to sign because they had no other FBS competition.

UNTLifer · June 19, 2017

I just go by what 247 states as offers. Here are others from the 17' class.

Guyton: Kansas, Bowling Green, Marshall, West Va, Southern Miss

T. Davis: Fresno St.

Brammer: New Mexico and Rice

Fulp: ULM

Parrish: Texas State, New Mexico

M Mose: Army, Navy

I appreciate your recruiting coverage, but it appears you 16 out of the last 17 comment is just to discredit our recruiting. Regardless kf who offered who when and where, I still prefer to see how these kids turn out after a couple of years.

Edited June 19, 2017 by UNTLifer

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

This makes no sense. Kids have offers expire all the time. Heck we have happen at UNT, that we recruit the kid for a period then we move on to other targets.

If the kid had a P5 offer at any time, that means that the school thought that kid could play at the P5 level. We can say that its in Whites case its not sexy that we flipped him from Grambling to UNT, but he had other offers as well. They may not be sexy but they are other G5 offers that he had at one time that the schools likely moved on from him because of them wanting to purpose other kids just like we do. All of these kids were highly ranked in by 24/7 as well.

BillySee58 · June 19, 2017

8 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I just go by what 247 states as offers. Here are others from the 17' class.

Guyton: Kansas, Bowling Green, Marshall, West Va, Southern Miss

T. Davis: Fresno St.

Brammer: New Mexico and Rice

Fulp: ULM

Parrish: Texas State, New Mexico

M Mose: Army, Navy

I appreciate your recruiting coverage, but it appears you 16 out of the last 17 comment is just to discredit our recruiting. Regardless kf who offered who when and where, I still prefer to see how these kids turn out after a couple of years.

Dude, I just told you that it started after dead period ended, yet you're still bringing up recruits who committed before (Guyton, Davis, Fulp). I didn't say Littrell has never signed a kid who ever held another FBS offer.

But since dead period ended we have received 17 commits, and 16 were uncontested as far as having other FBS schools actively recruiting them. Look how old Brammer and Parish's offers were, and the fact that they only had one official visit lined up after dead period tells you what the state of their recruiting was when they committed to us.

By all means, wait to evaluate the class. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do otherwise. And I'm not trying to say these players are not FBS quality or were never offered by another FBS school. But this is quite the streak where we are getting players by default and that's unsettling to me. If you want to unconditionally praise Littrell, I'm not trying to stop you. Just presenting facts, and preventing you from misconstruing the fact behind what I posted, whether you want it to be the case or not.

Edited June 19, 2017 by BillySee58

UNTLifer · June 19, 2017

Dude, I'm really not looking at our last 17 commits. Care to list them? What I am doing is looking through our last class to see what offers they had. This class could change, commits could receive other offers, kids could decommit, etc... so I won't include any of those, so that eliminates 5. I would be comfortable stating that Siggers, Darden and White, for example were offered after the dead period. I don't care how old some offers were, the kids were offered. You can cherry pick how you compare these kids all you want to make your point.

Dude, it appears you have become creative in listing these recruits to fit some poster's criticism of SL's recruiting. Darden's offer list was solid, offers after his decommitment to UNLV don't really matter to me, because a number of teams had moved on to fill their classes at that time. It doesn't remove the fact that the coaches at Memphis, Southern Miss and Va Tech thought enough of his skills to offer him a scholarship.

I am not unconditionally praising Littrell. I have been pretty obvious, for years, about my choice to rate classes after they have been on campus for a while. I just find it ridiculous that many of us, outside of college coaching, think we have the magic solution for recruiting to North Texas.

So, since you know who our last 17 commits are, in order, would you mind posting that list? Just the last 12 commits from the 17' class would be nice.

BillySee58 · June 19, 2017

7 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

This makes no sense. Kids have offers expire all the time. Heck we have happen at UNT, that we recruit the kid for a period then we move on to other targets.

What about that doesn't make sense? Did I ever say those guys couldn't play? Did I ever say they never held another FBS offer? Did I ever say I opposed those signings? As a matter of fact, I've been encouraging those type of signings before you even started posting on this board.

Again, evaluating the coaches, not the players here. This has been explained to you a handful on times both directly and indirectly. The point is, we're getting guys by default. Some where big-time recruits at one point, and some weren't.

I believe that every class we sign at UNT as long as we're in CUSA should include guys like Darden and Siggers at the end, and a few project guys with no other offers like Thornton or Novil. But when time after time we get guys almost exclusively uncontested (hence the 16 of last 17 stat to illustrate substance behind that claim), that raises concern that we are limited to only players no one else wants. And there's nothing wrong with people having that type of concern because it has been formed through evidence.

BillySee58 · June 19, 2017

40 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Dude, I'm really not looking at our last 17 commits.

Then you probably shouldn't be saying that my claim is just to discredit our recruiting.

Quote

Care to list them? What I am doing is looking through our last class to see what offers they had. This class could change, commits could receive other offers, kids could decommit, etc... so I won't include any of those, so that eliminates 5.

Again, missing the point here. We are not evaluating the recruits in their entirety. I do that separately. What is being evaluated is our coaches abilities to win head-to-head recruiting battles, which is why we look at the kids' recruitments at the time of commitment.

Quote

I would be comfortable stating that Siggers, Darden and White, for example were offered after the dead period. I don't care how old some offers were, the kids were offered. You can cherry pick how you compare these kids all you want to make your point.

Again, I do this separately. I am looking strictly at ability to win recruiting battles, so I will only look at pertinent information there. A Texas Tech offer 20 months ago doesn't qualify there.

Quote

Dude, it appears you have become creative in listing these recruits to fit some poster's criticism of SL's recruiting. Darden's offer list was solid, offers after his decommitment to UNLV don't really matter to me, because a number of teams had moved on to fill their classes at that time. It doesn't remove the fact that the coaches at Memphis, Southern Miss and Va Tech thought enough of his skills to offer him a scholarship.

I factor in those offers when comparing the class to those of prior years in my letter grade rating system. I don't discredit them when evaluating the player, but I do when evaluating the coaches abilities to win recruiting battles. Because they didn't beat those teams out just like we didn't beat out Nebraska, Tennessee, Auburn, and Florida State for Kevin Dillman.

Quote

I am not unconditionally praising Littrell. I have been pretty obvious, for years, about my choice to rate classes after they have been on campus for a while. I just find it ridiculous that many of us, outside of college coaching, think we have the magic solution for recruiting to North Texas.

Please, enlighten me on when I stated that I have some solution that the coaches haven't thought of? Rate the classes years later. I'm looking at the coaches and their ability to win head-to-head recruiting battles, which is immediately known. We will find out their evaluating and developing abilities later, which I completely concede to and is why I'm looking at head-to-head recruiting results now.

Quote

So, since you know who our last 17 commits are, in order, would you mind posting that list? Just the last 12 commits from the 17' class would be nice.

Brammer, Parish, Roberts, Gieser, Tibbs, Thornton, McGee, Novil, Siggers, Darden, White, and then the 6 commitments we have received for the 2018 class, which includes Gage because we are looking at players who have committed. These are our last 17 commitments we have received.

MeanGreenTexan · June 19, 2017

11 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I don't know why it's such a foreign concept here that a coach could be both. And for $1 million a year he should be

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

10 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Cade Pearson had an offer from Wyoming

Siggers lists Texas Tech, Louisville and New Mexico

Darden lists UNLV, ULM, Memphis, Southern Miss, and Va Tech

White lists Ohio and Tulane

Cameron Johnson lists Air Force, Army, East Carolina, Fresno State and NMSU.

The above courtesy of 247sports.

Seems like that comment about 16 of the last 17 commits is inaccurate.

You cannot be paying close attention if these are your citations.

MeanGreenTexan · June 19, 2017

10 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I just go by what 247 states as offers. Here are others from the 17' class.

Guyton: Kansas, Bowling Green, Marshall, West Va, Southern Miss

T. Davis: Fresno St.

Brammer: New Mexico and Rice

Fulp: ULM

Parrish: Texas State, New Mexico

M Mose: Army, Navy

I appreciate your recruiting coverage, but it appears you 16 out of the last 17 comment is just to discredit our recruiting. Regardless kf who offered who when and where, I still prefer to see how these kids turn out after a couple of years.

Until then:

...while other C-USA teams continue to win head-to-head recruiting battles against UNT. By then, the tables have been set for who the winners/losers are. So we can't sit there and wonder why UNT is still middle-of-the-pack in C-USA in 2019, when we have such a great X/O's coach & a prolific offensive scheme. It's because we're playing with guys only UNT & FCS teams are wanting.
I'm glad we're able to beat FCS teams, service academies, and TXSt (sometimes) for these guys, but we need to be able to also beat LATech, UTSA, Tulsa, etc... for these other guys we're offering.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

What about that doesn't make sense? Did I ever say those guys couldn't play? Did I ever say they never held another FBS offer? Did I ever say I opposed those signings? As a matter of fact, I've been encouraging those type of signings before you even started posting on this board.

Again, evaluating the coaches, not the players here. This has been explained to you a handful on times both directly and indirectly. The point is, we're getting guys by default. Some where big-time recruits at one point, and some weren't.

I believe that every class we sign at UNT as long as we're in CUSA should include guys like Darden and Siggers at the end, and a few project guys with no other offers like Thornton or Novil. But when time after time we get guys almost exclusively uncontested (hence the 16 of last 17 stat to illustrate substance behind that claim), that raises concern that we are limited to only players no one else wants. And there's nothing wrong with people having that type of concern because it has been formed through evidence.

Never said that you said that they couldn't play. The point is that its nice to beat out other schools, but just having an offer list doesn't mean you will be a great player or a bad player. Everyone on this board would take a kid like Siggers for example that had a P5 offer from Tech 10/10, and 10/10 times we could take a kid like Darden as well who had P5 and multiple other G5s. Yes it not as sexy when we have a kid commit who doesn't have any other offers.

The point that I'm trying to make is that SL and his staff are professionals at this, and we are all a bunch of average joes who have no idea in most of how the evaluation and recruiting process happens. How many people had them winning 5 games last year? How many of us had them playing in a Bowl game? We can complain about the recruiting but again SL and his staff is going to keep doing their thing.

UNT has to compete against DECADES of losing records! UNT has to compete against schools that put out NFL Draft picks year after year, UNT has to compete with programs that are some of the top entertainment choices in those cities (UNT is behind 2 other schools, 3 ML Teams, and multiple minor league teams). UNT has to compete against the mindset of HS coaches/Parents as well that still most likely view UNT has a negative. UNT has to compete with a lack of facilities such as an IPF, Weightroom, etc compared to High Schools. Hell, there are even students at UNT that DO NOT want to be at UNT.

We may not like the rankings of these classes or the recruits, and we can be critical of the coaches, but they are competing vs A LOT of outside factors. When everyone on here can come up with answers on how to top LATech when they recently had a 1st round pick, along with the stats of a top 10/20 offense. Because of our losing history, UTSA looks better than UNT because we have had what, 1 winning season in like 10-15 years? We can ask and complain about why kids would rather go to TXST over UNT but yet they are one of the main things to do in SM. We can then say that we should be like WKU, but yet they have been investing in their program while, RV was just trying to rub 2 coins together to pay the waterbill for us to water the soccer practice fields....

SL has shown that he can coach, or atleast get these kids to play above their abilities at times with kids that didn't fit his scheme. True in SL and the process, because a lot of different people from all over the country have talked about the turn around that SL did. Coaches have talked about a change as well when Vito has talked to them at practice. Recruiting experts as well have talked glowingly about the last class, and some of these recruits as well. Just because can't hold only a Top 50 recruit in Gage or get a kid to flip from XYZ school to UNT isn't because these guys suck at recruiting, its most likely the outside factories and non-investment into the program.

MGNation92 · June 19, 2017

10 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Recruiting experts as well have talked glowingly about the last class, and some of these recruits as well.

Who?

Only person I saw make a comment was Tepper and even then he said it was "underrated"

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

Just now, MGNation92 said:

Who?

Only person I saw make a comment was Tepper and even then he said it was "underrated"

The guys on Dave Campbells talked about the class, Tepper as well.

Also, isn't the term "underrated" viewed as you should be ranked or graded higher or someone who has been passed over?

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

11 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Never said that you said that they couldn't play. The point is that its nice to beat out other schools, but just having an offer list doesn't mean you will be a great player or a bad player. Everyone on this board would take a kid like Siggers for example that had a P5 offer from Tech 10/10, and 10/10 times we could take a kid like Darden as well who had P5 and multiple other G5s. Yes it not as sexy when we have a kid commit who doesn't have any other offers.

The point that I'm trying to make is that SL and his staff are professionals at this, and we are all a bunch of average joes who have no idea in most of how the evaluation and recruiting process happens. How many people had them winning 5 games last year? How many of us had them playing in a Bowl game? We can complain about the recruiting but again SL and his staff is going to keep doing their thing.

UNT has to compete against DECADES of losing records! UNT has to compete against schools that put out NFL Draft picks year after year, UNT has to compete with programs that are some of the top entertainment choices in those cities (UNT is behind 2 other schools, 3 ML Teams, and multiple minor league teams). UNT has to compete against the mindset of HS coaches/Parents as well that still most likely view UNT has a negative. UNT has to compete with a lack of facilities such as an IPF, Weightroom, etc compared to High Schools. Hell, there are even students at UNT that DO NOT want to be at UNT.

We may not like the rankings of these classes or the recruits, and we can be critical of the coaches, but they are competing vs A LOT of outside factors. When everyone on here can come up with answers on how to top LATech when they recently had a 1st round pick, along with the stats of a top 10/20 offense. Because of our losing history, UTSA looks better than UNT because we have had what, 1 winning season in like 10-15 years? We can ask and complain about why kids would rather go to TXST over UNT but yet they are one of the main things to do in SM. We can then say that we should be like WKU, but yet they have been investing in their program while, RV was just trying to rub 2 coins together to pay the waterbill for us to water the soccer practice fields....

SL has shown that he can coach, or atleast get these kids to play above their abilities at times with kids that didn't fit his scheme. True in SL and the process, because a lot of different people from all over the country have talked about the turn around that SL did. Coaches have talked about a change as well when Vito has talked to them at practice. Recruiting experts as well have talked glowingly about the last class, and some of these recruits as well. Just because can't hold only a Top 50 recruit in Gage or get a kid to flip from XYZ school to UNT isn't because these guys suck at recruiting, its most likely the outside factories and non-investment into the program.

This post may hold some truth, but I don't care about any of it. It's their job to pull the highest level recruits that they can and go win with them. If this is their top shelf recruiting capability, we're in trouble.

No one is asking to go flip recruits, pull top50 players, or even dominate the conference on the recruiting trail. I think most would agree getting to mid level CUSA recruiting consistently in consecutive years would be pleasing.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

This post may hold some truth, but I don't care about any of it. It's their job to pull the highest level recruits that they can and go win with them. If this is their top shelf recruiting capability, we're in trouble.

No one is asking to go flip recruits, pull top50 players, or even dominate the conference on the recruiting trail. I think most would agree getting to mid level CUSA recruiting consistently in consecutive years would be pleasing.

Are you wanting to get a job at a company that has years of losing profits? Do you want to go to a company that is 4th or 5th or 6th biggest in the region? Do you want to work for a company that has subpar equipment and facilities? Do you want to work that has not been puting out a quality product in years?

You may not care about it but it is facts. Decades of losing, Lack of NFL Talent, Marketsize, and subpar HS Facilities basically are major strikes vs UNT compared to the likes of LAT.

Everyone wants to compare UNT to LAT or UTSA, those schools do NOT have the Decades of losing compared to us, those schools have had NFL Draft Picks while we have NOT. Those schools have facilities that we do NOT have.

We can pour money into to Ass. Coaches pool and more into gas money for recruiting, but it comes down to the extras that the school has to offer. When we can be like the rest of the big boys and have improved facilities that actually appeal to higher ranked kids, and have some success in terms of sending kids to the pros then we can start comparing ourselves to the likes of LAT, WKU, UTSA.

Yes everyone here would love for us to get into the "mid-level" of CUSA. but we are competing with HS facilities. WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY AND ADDRESS THE LACK OF INVESTMENT HERE AT UNT. Give a coach gas money to drive from UNT to Denton Ryan isn't going to make a kid commit. For every kid that commits like T.Davis because they want to be close to home, is 5, 10, 15, etc kids that want to go to the best program to get them to their dreams of the NFL! Gas money isn't going to convince that kid to pass up LAT for UNT. No LAT has history and the facilities to improve that kid, and that kid will come to us and think my HS has better facilities than here.

Again a IPF, a weightroom, a film room, a nutrition center to build these kids into the best shape possible and help them on the field as well is how you win them over, because those things are not going to leave for a P5.

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Are you wanting to get a job at a company that has years of losing profits? Do you want to go to a company that is 4th or 5th or 6th biggest in the region? Do you want to work for a company that has subpar equipment and facilities? Do you want to work that has not been puting out a quality product in years?

You may not care about it but it is facts. Decades of losing, Lack of NFL Talent, Marketsize, and subpar HS Facilities basically are major strikes vs UNT compared to the likes of LAT.

Everyone wants to compare UNT to LAT or UTSA, those schools do NOT have the Decades of losing compared to us, those schools have had NFL Draft Picks while we have NOT. Those schools have facilities that we do NOT have.

We can pour money into to Ass. Coaches pool and more into gas money for recruiting, but it comes down to the extras that the school has to offer. When we can be like the rest of the big boys and have improved facilities that actually appeal to higher ranked kids, and have some success in terms of sending kids to the pros then we can start comparing ourselves to the likes of LAT, WKU, UTSA.

Yes everyone here would love for us to get into the "mid-level" of CUSA. but we are competing with HS facilities. WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY AND ADDRESS THE LACK OF INVESTMENT HERE AT UNT. Give a coach gas money to drive from UNT to Denton Ryan isn't going to make a kid commit. For every kid that commits like T.Davis because they want to be close to home, is 5, 10, 15, etc kids that want to go to the best program to get them to their dreams of the NFL! Gas money isn't going to convince that kid to pass up LAT for UNT. No LAT has history and the facilities to improve that kid, and that kid will come to us and think my HS has better facilities than here.

Again a IPF, a weightroom, a film room, a nutrition center to build these kids into the best shape possible and help them on the field as well is how you win them over, because those things are not going to leave for a P5.

And Frank Wilson would be keeping you real quite about all this had he been offered to come here.

A good salesmen can sell anything. A bad one will end up unemployed.

UTSA does not have better facilities than UNT in any way, shape or form. In a weird way you are trying to validate the porous recruiting that this staff has done as if it's not their fault or responsibility. I know people don't want to hear this verbage and that is understandable for the sake of debating, but you're being a textbook apologist.

We must do better because we have to. I just don't see how sustainability is possible at this pace, for this staff or the next.

UNTLifer · June 19, 2017

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

Brammer, Parish, Roberts, Gieser, Tibbs, Thornton, McGee, Novil, Siggers, Darden, White, and then the 6 commitments we have received for the 2018 class, which includes Gage because we are looking at players who have committed. These are our last 17 commitments we have received.

Siggers, Darden and White all had good offers. Does it really matter if they were still good or not? Those coaches identified these young men as worthy of an offer at one time and they ended up with us. Now, we win with these young men and continue to grow the program and change its perception in the future recruits.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

22 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

And Frank Wilson would be keeping you real quite about all this had he been offered to come here.

A good salesmen can sell anything. A bad one will end up unemployed.

UTSA does not have better facilities than UNT in any way, shape or form. In a weird way you are trying to validate the porous recruiting that this staff has done as if it's not their fault or responsibility. I know people don't want to hear this verbage and that is understandable for the sake of debating, but you're being a textbook apologist.

We must do better because we have to. I just don't see how sustainability is possible at this pace, for this staff or the next.

No it would not keep me quiet.

I've been talking about upgrading the facilities for months! I brought up back in the fall about them looking/discussing about a new superpit. UNT Athletic facilities are old and out of date. Hell, our track team can't even have a home tournament. Our best program, girls soccer, just a couple of years ago couldn't even water the grass that they practiced on.

Why the hell would any recruit want to go to a place like that? Wilson would have a hard time selling, a small weightroom, no IPF, no winning history, and no NFL-Success at the time that he would have gotten here.

We have no idea about the state of the facilities at UTSA. But they have 1 thing that we don't have and its a IPF. We have no IPF. We have no idea the status of their weightroom either, or their position group rooms, but if anything they are on the same status as us which still has us ranking behind them because of no IPF. (Their IPF is the AlamoDome!) I'm not being an apologist. I'm being a realist. The state of UNT athletics is piss poor. They have been working on this IPF since last fall, and its still not announced. They can show flashy photos of what it may look like to recruits, but that isn't helping SL and the other coaches when they say we have something in the works for nearly 9 months now.

I'm validating the porous recruiting because UNT literally has so many areas that just have to be upgraded to get on par with other schools that are below where we would like/should be. We can think that UNT is in the dumps because of recruiting, but recruiting will only improve if the other things step up. SL has to win on the field to change the mindsets of the people like Parents and HS Coaches, the facilities is how you get recruits.

Again, Wilson could not sale recruits on no NFL success, crappy facilities, being the bottom of the barrel in this market. Just like a great sales person couldn't sale you on joining a company that is has no success in terms of employment promotion, a company that is downsizing, and a company that makes you pay for your own equipment, parking, etc. If that sales person did sale you on that company, then the person that is at fault isn't the sales person, its you.

33 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Siggers, Darden and White all had good offers. Does it really matter if they were still good or not? Those coaches identified these young men as worthy of an offer at one time and they ended up with us. Now, we win with these young men and continue to grow the program and change its perception in the future recruits.

Thank you, preach it!

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

An off campus city welfare gift called the alamodome is not an IPF. Just so we're clear.

And you have no idea what he could or couldn't do here, and neither do I. But his track record as a recruiter speaks for itself...And it speaks loudly. Vito at the beginning of these hires called it like a measuring stick hire for both universities and it would be interesting to follow their successes or failures. It's safe to say that up to this point utsa made the better hire.

But you are apathetic to what UNT is...Woe is UNT. And will apparently find excuses at will for the shortcomings of the coaching era that we're currently in.

MeanGreenTexan · June 19, 2017

39 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Siggers, Darden and White all had good offers. Does it really matter if they were still good or not? Those coaches identified these young men as worthy of an offer at one time and they ended up with us. Now, we win with these young men and continue to grow the program and change its perception in the future recruits.

Indeed they did, and it does matter, because if they can't sign those offers/LOIs on signing day, then they're mirages.
We're going to catch these guys that fall through the cracks every year. This is not a new thing. We've done it as far back as I can remember.
We won't recruit very well during the early-mid recruiting cycle (except for the Dodge era, we did well during most of it), then we'll get a handful of guys that fall through close to signing day. I expect this to continue. We get some nice players this way!
However, we should also be winning some of these recruiting battles for guys who would like to commit during the early-mid parts of the recruiting cycle.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

An off campus city welfare gift called the alamodome is not an IPF. Just so we're clear.

And you have no idea what he could or couldn't do here, and neither do I. But his track record as a recruiter speaks for itself...And it speaks loudly. Vito at the beginning of these hires called it like a measuring stick hire for both universities and it would be interesting to follow their successes or failures. It's safe to say that up to this point utsa made the better hire.

But you are apathetic to what UNT is...Woe is UNT. And will apparently find excuses at will for the shortcomings of the coaching era that we're currently in.

Does it have a roof and can they practice in it? If it does then its an IPF, sorry to break it to you.

Its true UTSA has made the better hire because they are willing to invest in the AD Programs! We have no invested at all! UTSA also doesnt not have the history of losing like UNT, and they have more draft success than us! Dear lord, UTSA is an easy sale compared to UNT, just because of the records, and NFL Production alone!

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Indeed they did, and it does matter, because if they can't sign those offers/LOIs on signing day, then they're mirages.
We're going to catch these guys that fall through the cracks every year. This is not a new thing. We've done it as far back as I can remember.
We won't recruit very well during the early-mid recruiting cycle (except for the Dodge era, we did well during most of it), then we'll get a handful of guys that fall through close to signing day. I expect this to continue. We get some nice players this way!
However, we should also be winning some of these recruiting battles for guys who would like to commit during the early-mid parts of the recruiting cycle.

Yes, we should win them, but UNT has to give the coaches the tools to compete and take away weaknesses that our competition uses to our disadvantage. SL needs to keep winning on the field, and produce kids that go in the draft. Right now he has Jenkins and McClain who are the 2 most likely to get drafted. SL/Reff and everyone else needs to find ways to get to excel and for college scouts to see them. If McClain can go to IU and have the same game he did vs Army when we played at Army he will get picked, and if Jenks has the same game that he had vs Army as well he should get picked too.

But WB job is improve and facilities, so that SL and the staff can tell recruits that he will have the best tools at UNT for you to make it to the NFL, and that they can coach them up. SL and them already coached up a 1-11 team to 5-8 and nearly a bowl win. Just have to give him the tools now and hope it wasn't a fluke season.

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

5 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Does it have a roof and can they practice in it? If it does then its an IPF, sorry to break it to you.

Its true UTSA has made the better hire because they are willing to invest in the AD Programs! We have no invested at all! UTSA also doesnt not have the history of losing like UNT, and they have more draft success than us! Dear lord, UTSA is an easy sale compared to UNT, just because of the records, and NFL Production alone!

Because nothing...utsa made the better hire as it stands.

As for investing...SL makes 33% more than Frank Wilson. And UNT's assistant pool was larger the last time I looked. Also, we have an on campus facility that is nice of itself. We are also easily a better academic school, with a much nicer campus, nicer looking women, in a nicer location. UNT can be sold with the right salesman. Leave your excuses at the door.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

Because nothing...utsa made the better hire as it stands.

As for investing...SL makes 33% more than Frank Wilson. And UNT's assistant pool was larger the last time I looked. Also, we have an on campus facility that is nice of itself. We are also easily a better academic school, with a much nicer campus, nicer looking women, in a nicer location. UNT can be sold with the right salesman. Leave your excuses at the door.

Figures you would pass over the IPF comment LOL.

SL should make more because of resume that he has. Wilson was an RB Coach, and SL was an OC. The Ass. Pool maybe higher, but again who would turn down more money? Have i denied that UTSA made a better hire, so far? No the point is, SL could be a better hire if he is given the resources and the history that UTSA has had. IF SL didn't have Decades of losing to recruit against, a lost of facilities and resources, and previous coaches lack of NFL production then he would be losing to Wilson.

Dear lord, most HS kids do not view UNT as a better Academic school than UT, TCU, SMU, etc. UNT IS VIEWED AS THE BACK UP IN EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF MUSIC! We can say we have a nicer campus, but that can't actually be rated, so that is invalid. Nicer looking women, that is up the individual person to rank. Nice Location, that is invalid because of all the construction and nothing really do in the city of Denton compared to SA. Literally just debunked all the reasons why UNT is "Nicer."

97and03 · June 19, 2017

Why. Do. You. Argue. With. Ben. Gooding. FFS.

Ben Gooding · June 19, 2017

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Figures you would pass over the IPF comment LOL.

SL should make more because of resume that he has. Wilson was an RB Coach, and SL was an OC. The Ass. Pool maybe higher, but again who would turn down more money? Have i denied that UTSA made a better hire, so far? No the point is, SL could be a better hire if he is given the resources and the history that UTSA has had. IF SL didn't have Decades of losing to recruit against, a lost of facilities and resources, and previous coaches lack of NFL production then he would be losing to Wilson.

Dear lord, most HS kids do not view UNT as a better Academic school than UT, TCU, SMU, etc. UNT IS VIEWED AS THE BACK UP IN EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF MUSIC! We can say we have a nicer campus, but that can't actually be rated, so that is invalid. Nicer looking women, that is up the individual person to rank. Nice Location, that is invalid because of all the construction and nothing really do in the city of Denton compared to SA. Literally just debunked all the reasons why UNT is "Nicer."

You're out of your mind. You debunked jack shit.

And the Alamo dome is not an IPF. IPF's make things convenient. There is nothing convenient about the alamodome. If anything, the contrary.

1 minute ago, 97and03 said:

Why. Do. You. Argue. With. Ben. Gooding. FFS.

No one is talking to you. Kick rocks.

BTG_Fan1 · June 19, 2017

4 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

You're out of your mind. You debunked jack shit.

And the Alamo dome is not an IPF. IPF's make things convenient. There is nothing convenient about the alamodome. If anything, the contrary.

and IPF is an indoor pratice facility. The field of the alamodome is indoors, check. they pratice on it on, check.

Proven.

All the factors that you listed were invalid and thus debunked.

Because HS recruits don't see much of a difference in terms of education. They see a major difference in terms of on/off the field production in getting them to their dream of the NFL.

How the women rank on campus is up to the players, but just saying a liberal arts school like UNT (that maybe a strike).

A nicer campus, no idea how that can be proven but if you are going by looks but UNT has alot of construction going on and old building. If you go by people saying hi, hello, how are you, yea no one says that to strangers while out walking around on campus, so this is a invalid question.

UNT is not a nice location, because for everything that Denton has, SA has something better. We have the Square they have the riverwalk, they have the resort style hotels and we have a Hilton Garden Inn. We have Golden Triangle Mall, they have 5 malls within SA. Boom debunked again..