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DRC: Losing Gage a blow for UNT

Brett Vito

By Brett Vito
in Mean Green Football

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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

Posted
Posted

Hate the loss, but IMO this young man seems more about the "Me" than the "Team". And before you comment, I understand about the kids deserving the "recruiting experience". I just believe when you commit it should be when you're sure, just as I do not believe a school should make an offer if they are not going to honor.

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Hate the loss, but IMO this young man seems more about the "Me" than the "Team". And before you comment, I understand about the kids deserving the "recruiting experience". I just believe when you commit it should be when you're sure, just as I do not believe a school should make an offer if they are not going to honor.

Until he shows up for fall practice in 2018, he's not on anyone's "Team"!   And, he could still wind up on our team!

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UNTLifer Grand Master

UNTLifer

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Lol.   OK.  Find a replacement that is better:
https://interactives.dallasnews.com/2017/sportsday-top-recruits/

This is where we differ.  I like to look back after a  young man has been on campus to see how he turns out, while others like to grade the classes immediately before they have set foot on campus.

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MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

This is where we differ.  I like to look back after a  young man has been on campus to see how he turns out, while others like to grade the classes immediately before they have set foot on campus.

Unfortunately we don't have a time-travelling machine yet, so we won't know who those guys are.  
In the meantime, the best indicator of a player's ability are the recruiting services' ratings, and what OTHER COACHES think about these guys (i.e.: are they offering them or not?).
As of right now, Antonio Gage was widely considered the best player we had on board since the recruiting rating services had him as a high 3* and many, many other coaches offered him a scholarship to play on their teams as well.  
He's no longer on board with UNT, and it seems many people around here got their feelings hurt by him, so they lash out personally, which is dumb.

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

Posted
Posted

The earlier signing period should curtail a little of this.   Commits should mean more than they do, however no one should want anyone that doesn't want to be here.  

Unfortunately, committing is mostly an one sided agreement.  Players that start getting more attention are hard to hang on to, while the school is obligated to take commits when better players become available.  

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untjim1995 Grand Master

untjim1995

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

This is where we differ.  I like to look back after a  young man has been on campus to see how he turns out, while others like to grade the classes immediately before they have set foot on campus.

Recruiting services that garner all the media attention and other coaches that use these rankings for their advantage over us while recruiting players, they all beg to differ--even though you are right.

Gage is big loss on the recruiting front, but its not terribly surprising. I'm sure that the other coaches recruiting him have bombarded him with negativity on his choice and his family and HS coaches are probably hearing the same stuff.

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Harry Grand Master

Harry

Posted
Posted

As a follow-up to Jim's points, I wish we would study these decommits and figure out what is happening.  Is it the high school coach?  Is it the peer group?  Is it opposing coaches who are involved?  I think we can all agree it is negativity towards North Texas that is driving this.  And there may not be a damn thing we can do about it.

If that is the case then why even offer a high profile guy early?  Would we not be better served to show interest and hold the commitment i.e. not publicize it?  It seems like Charlie Strong was doing something similar to this at Texas the last couple of years.  

Or has twitter removed our ability to even control the recruits messaging?  It seems to me that twitter has engulfed recruiting like no other medium ever.  When I visit the recruiting services these days it seems like they are primarily reposting twitter posts from recruits and analyzing them.

Back to strategy, I often wonder if it would not be in our best interest to stockpile our scholarships until other school options start to become more clear.  I wonder if the early high profile commit is worth it unless you are very sure that they will stick.  Having a recruit type out a "thanks but I want to just be friends" tweet doesn't seem to help build momentum.

its an interesting question and I really hope it is being strategized and discussed at the HIGHEST levels of this program.  It's far too important to just leave it up to the coaches.  They need every bit of support we can muster as they try to solve this critically important rubix cube.

BTG_Fan1 Newbie

BTG_Fan1

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Harry said:

As a follow-up to Jim's points, I wish we would study these decommits and figure out what is happening.  Is it the high school coach?  Is it the peer group?  Is it opposing coaches who are involved?  I think we can all agree it is negativity towards North Texas that is driving this.  And there may not be a damn thing we can do about it.

If that is the case then why even offer a high profile guy early?  Would we not be better served to show interest and hold the commitment i.e. not publicize it?  It seems like Charlie Strong was doing something similar to this at Texas the last couple of years.  

Or has twitter removed our ability to even control the recruits messaging?  It seems to me that twitter has engulfed recruiting like no other medium ever.  When I visit the recruiting services these days it seems like they are primarily reposting twitter posts from recruits and analyzing them.

Back to strategy, I often wonder if it would not be in our best interest to stockpile our scholarships until other school options start to become more clear.  I wonder if the early high profile commit is worth it unless you are very sure that they will stick.  Having a recruit type out a "thanks but I want to just be friends" tweet doesn't seem to help build momentum.

its an interesting question and I really hope it is being strategized and discussed at the HIGHEST levels of this program.  It's far too important to just leave it up to the coaches.  They need every bit of support we can muster as they try to solve this critically important rubix cube.

I don't think that it was anything that UNT did wrong. When Gage committed the first time, he did it himself without talking to his parents or coaches, and then backed off it then recommitted. Then he just recently decommited, but he says that we are still in his top schools (who knows where we rank and how many). From what I recall, he has not picked up any other offers since he committed to us. 

I think that its other bigger schools had offered in the past, and he committed to us, and he wants to see if he can get other bigger offers than what is already out there. He got offered by the likes of Colorado, Tech. Who knows, maybe his dreams school is still out there and he hopes that he can pick up an offer from whoever it is. I think we will see players lock in commitments earlier this year because of the earlier NSD, and kids not wanting to lose an offer that they like. If this happens, then you will see programs like HOU that gets 10-15 kids to sign in december not be able to offer to as many kids like they did Bradley the week before NSD, leading to UNT being able to add talented kids that progressed during their senior year while bigger schools already have kids committed that didn't progress as much  as others. 

But I think that we are in a solid position. Gage committed to us twice, that being him doing it on his own and then him doing it again once other people had input. Also, I'm going to say that with him reaching out to the likes of Syracuse/Kent State among others that he is still likely to stick with UNT over those guys if he passed on Colorado/Tech for UNT in the first place. 

The thing that UNT needs most is just to improve its image, and this is something that is on WB and NS. The building of the IPF will be huge because it shows a commitment to the athletic department. Also, it will help having other sports being successfully as well. If Basketball can be improved and show the improvement that GMac had at his previous stop, it will help because of the increased $ that are coming in and it will possibly even lead to a bit more positive coverage as well. Also, it would be nice to give the recruits something else to do when they come and visit as well. 

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RBP79 Grand Master

RBP79

Posted
Posted

Brett told me a year ago "that's college football"! I guess am too old cause I believe a commitment is just that.....just a reflection of our society I suppose. I don't believe the recruiting BS till there in class.

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VideoEagle Mentor

VideoEagle

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Harry said:

Or has twitter removed our ability to even control the recruits messaging?

Excellent thought! There's no doubt twitter and social media have dramatically changed how college recruiting works. You only have to look at the number of schools with a dedicated person handling (read: CONTROLLING) their social media. It's all about getting through the noise. 

Does that mean we can't control the message going to our recruits, no it means we must work harder to get our message out to the recruits. It means coordinating a message across all contacts - phone calls, letters, emails, texts, twitter, facebook, snapchat and what ever else is coming along. I personally think the BEST way to do this enlist the help of our current players as they are closer to the process and at least know what channels got their attention and what messages they think will get through all of the other noise. 

  • Upvote 2
MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

... 

But I think that we are in a solid position. Gage committed to us twice, that being him doing it on his own and then him doing it again once other people had input. Also, I'm going to say that with him reaching out to the likes of Syracuse/Kent State among others that he is still likely to stick with UNT over those guys if he passed on Colorado/Tech for UNT in the first place. 

...

Critical thinking skills happening here folks!

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MeanGreen_MBA Mentor

MeanGreen_MBA

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Harry said:

As a follow-up to Jim's points, I wish we would study these decommits and figure out what is happening.  Is it the high school coach?  Is it the peer group?  Is it opposing coaches who are involved?  I think we can all agree it is negativity towards North Texas that is driving this.  And there may not be a damn thing we can do about it.

If that is the case then why even offer a high profile guy early?  Would we not be better served to show interest and hold the commitment i.e. not publicize it?  It seems like Charlie Strong was doing something similar to this at Texas the last couple of years.  

Or has twitter removed our ability to even control the recruits messaging?  It seems to me that twitter has engulfed recruiting like no other medium ever.  When I visit the recruiting services these days it seems like they are primarily reposting twitter posts from recruits and analyzing them.

Back to strategy, I often wonder if it would not be in our best interest to stockpile our scholarships until other school options start to become more clear.  I wonder if the early high profile commit is worth it unless you are very sure that they will stick.  Having a recruit type out a "thanks but I want to just be friends" tweet doesn't seem to help build momentum.

its an interesting question and I really hope it is being strategized and discussed at the HIGHEST levels of this program.  It's far too important to just leave it up to the coaches.  They need every bit of support we can muster as they try to solve this critically important rubix cube.

The benefit of announcing a higher profile players commitment, is it gives us more credibility to the next high profile player who is looking to make a commitment.  Good players want to play with other good players is what I am trying to say.  I think it is better to get them leaning our way then towards somebody else.  P5 get de-commits all the time....  I don't think we can be afraid that somebody will drop-off....it will happen.  Let's just keep that pipeline full when it does happen.  It may take a couple of years of this before UNT becomes the school that others de-commit from somewhere else to come to....

  • Upvote 1
Wag Tag Grand Master

Wag Tag

Posted
Posted

This class needs to be a big step up for SL. He has had the time and now has the slots, I believe 20, to get a good size class. I am still blown away by UTSA recruiting. Unless they have some angle on academics their success is all because of the coaches!

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KRAM1 Rookie

KRAM1

Posted
Posted

I am sort of in the camp of RBP79....and not just in the "being old" part. To me a commitment is just that...my word...a commitment.  BUT, I get that in recruiting it pretty much means zilch these days...and that tends to go both ways. We read of coaches pulling offers all the time and leaving kids hanging at the last minute with no offers.  Yes, it is more often the playing "backing out", but it does go both ways. I cannot blame the kids entirely because they are being told by every other kid and many adults that they respect that they are "God's gift to football" and are sure future NFL HOF'ers...and have been told such since they were playing pee wee football.  That is why I love walk-ins so much.  These are often kids who love the game and work their fear ends off to prove that they "belong".  Sure, you cannot build a program with walk-ons (even though McCarney seemed to try just that), but these are the guys who play special teams to get on the field, the kids who show up early and stay late to try to prove they belong. 

So, in a way Vito is right, this IS college football today, where a commitment early to UNT means "I am committed, so save my ship, while I look around for what other people think is a better deal".  Is what it is, and another reason I don't much care about "potential". Show me on the field what you have once you actually set foot on the UNT practice field and show me how much you care in the weight room.  I want kids who want to be here and see UNT for the program it can be and is developing toward.

Goid luck to young Mr Gage. May see him at Apogee in Mean Green green yet.  We shall see...we shall see. Either way, I'm good!

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Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KRAM1 said:

  BUT, I get that in recruiting it pretty much means zilch these days...and that tends to go both ways.

It's important to remember this.

I see a lot of people gripe about a player backing out of a verbal, but every year we have players who get their ships pulled and no one seems to fund that problematic.  

 

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF Newbie

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF

Posted
Posted (edited)

Most of these kids don't know they are pawns.  Yes, some schools "show interest," but it's normally to prod some other higher up recruit to commit.  Texas Tech got their higher up WR commit, so they don't need Gage anymore.  Colorado returns its five leading receivers, so they can toy with Gage all they want, but they don't really "need" him.

The problem for us is the vicious cycle:  you have to win to recruit well; but, to win consistently, you have to have great recruits.

Few have really broken the cycle.  Bill Snyder did it at Kansas State.  A series of coaches has done it a Houston, beginning with Art Briles.  Gary Barnett did it at Northwestern for a while. 

Other than that, you don't really have any huge stories of perennial losers being turned into perennial winners. 

It's a tough nut to crack, for sure.

The best thing a tweener recruit like Gage can hope for is something like happened to this Colorado commit:  http://247sports.com/player/josh-jynes-91904

A two-star recruit from Texas, Jynes had two FCS schools offer him in 2016.  In January of this year, Colorado offered.  A week later, UTSA offered.  The first week of March, Rice offered.  He committed to CU, his best available offer in April.  Last week of May, West Virginia offered.  

Gage, perhaps, tried to use his commitment to us to build interest.  I never have no problem with that because the coaches also use the kids that way.  Tech and CU already played Gage.  He's now playing us.  If nothing bigger and better offers him, he'll be back.     

Edited by MeanGreenMailbox
UNTLifer Grand Master

UNTLifer

Posted
Posted

A asked this in another post and am not sure if anyone saw it, or if nobody cares, but do these kids decommit via twitter or do they pick up the phone and call the coach?

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