UH fans respond to UNT series

[Harry]

http://www.scout.com/college/houston/forums/2804-uh-football/16724174-unt-and-uh-ink-4-game-series

[DeepGreen]

Yes.  I can see where they love this series.

[NTXCoog]

The biggest complaint UH fans have is the same one UNT fans have. The current AD has not been able to schedule a P5 series. All of the P5 games we currently have scheduled were signed by the prior AD

[NTXCoog]

Yay!  UH just signed a home and home with Washington State, lowering the UNT complaint level

[Got5onIt]

They don't have their own website??? Their fans congregate on scout?

[Rudy]

1 hour ago, Got5onIt said:

They don't have their own website??? Their fans congregate on scout?

Well, some of their poster don't have their own homes so it kind of makes sense.

[TreeFiddy]

Figured Houston's site would have been on Maxpreps or some other high school sports related website instead of Scout.  Weird.

[NTXCoog]

8 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

They don't have their own website??? Their fans congregate on scout?

Don't like Scout?  Here's the Coogfans thread on the series.  http://www.coogfans.com/t/home-and-home-with-unt/7046

[UNTLifer]

Band camp school?  This coming from Commuter U.?

[akriesman]

2 hours ago, NTXCoog said:

Don't like Scout?  Here's the Coogfans thread on the series.  http://www.coogfans.com/t/home-and-home-with-unt/7046

It's funny that after a few good seasons in a row, ego's start to really grow out of control.

Of course, the same thing would happen here at NT if/when we start winning on a regular basis.

It will never happen of course.   But, how cool would it be to setup the FBS  similar to the English Premier Soccer league, where the bottom teams each year drop out of the top divisions and swap out with the top teams in the lower divisions ?     I really don't have any real interest in soccer or the English Premier league.   But, I think the way they setup their league is the coolest thing ever.

[NTXCoog]

10 minutes ago, akriesman said:

It's funny that after a few good seasons in a row, ego's start to really grow out of control.

Of course, the same thing would happen here at NT if/when we start winning on a regular basis.

There are some UH fans trashing UNT, just like there are UNT fans trashing adding UH to the schedule.  But as I said in another post, most of the UH fan frustration in that thread is directed towards the UH AD.  Until the announcement of Washington St having a home and home (announced after UNT), the current UH AD had not scheduled a P5 team.  I read here all the time the same frustration with UNT being unable to host a P5 opponent.

[untjim1995]

The CoogFans site, just like PonyFans, and KillerFrogs from years ago, always say the same thing about playing us in a series that involves a game in Denton. They play us when they need us, for wins or for help at the gate (or both in SMUs case).

I love playing all those old SWC jack-wagons that got left behind when the Big 12 formed. They got so much media support that we could have only dreamed of having for decades, even still today. We never got even a crumb of help from these schools when it was obvious we would have been a great fit for the SWC. I still cannot understand for the life of me why Fry didn't try to get us into the old Big Eight at the same time and create a bidding war, because the SWC wouldn't want any of those schools getting more time in Texas to steal recruits. We would have been the perfect fit up there, too, with all big public schools, as well as at the time, a great basketball arena that would have allowed us to fit in even more nicely with that league. Instead, we didn't, predictably, even get a chance at the SWC, Fry left to Iowa, and we basically just gave up for about the next 20 years.

[VideoEagle]

29 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I still cannot understand for the life of me why Fry didn't try to get us into the old Big Eight at the same time and create a bidding war, because the SWC wouldn't want any of those schools getting more time in Texas to steal recruits. We would have been the perfect fit up there, too, with all big public schools, as well as at the time, a great basketball arena that would have allowed us to fit in even more nicely with that league.

I so wish we would have - we were a better fit for the Big 8. All state schools, all within 10K of our enrollment and only OU played on a regular basis in Texas! 

[NTXCoog]

48 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I love playing all those old SWC jack-wagons that got left behind when the Big 12 formed. They got so much media support that we could have only dreamed of having for decades, even still today. We never got even a crumb of help from these schools when it was obvious we would have been a great fit for the SWC. I still cannot understand for the life of me why Fry didn't try to get us into the old Big Eight at the same time and create a bidding war, because the SWC wouldn't want any of those schools getting more time in Texas to steal recruits. We would have been the perfect fit up there, too, with all big public schools, as well as at the time, a great basketball arena that would have allowed us to fit in even more nicely with that league. Instead, we didn't, predictably, even get a chance at the SWC, Fry left to Iowa, and we basically just gave up for about the next 20 years.

I'm just trying to learn here although I'm sure some will take offense, what did UNT do, especially on the field, to earn their way to the SWC or Big 8?  The SWC wanted nothing to do with Houston either.  UH tried to join the SWC from the time we put our first team on the field.  Of course we got no support either. 

Rice actively tried to destroy UH athletics.  At UH's first football practice, Rice offered to scrimmage.  UH expected a casual practice, but a very good Rice team brought refs, fans, and the press and demolished our team in order to humiliate the program in front of the city of Houston.  Rice Stadium?  It was originally built for both Rice and UH and was to be named Houston Stadium.  But Rice took it over as their own, leaving UH to play at their former high school stadium.  Twice Rice offered to sponsor UH for membership prior to SWC meetings, but pulled out right when meetings began so UH couldn't attempt to find another sponsor.

So how did UH finally get in the SWC?  Finishing ranked from 1968-1971 (and would have been ranked in 1967 but the AP only ranked 10 teams then).  Beating #1 Michigan St.  Leading the country in offense 3 years in a row.  The Astrodome was a huge recruiting tool (yes facilities had an impact then too).  UH was becoming a dominant force in recruiting African American athletes in TX, players schools like UT didn't even want to recruit.  So UT needed to take some control.  They sponsored UH for membership, and that's where the control started taking place.  UH couldn't join SWC football for 5 years (1976, other sports started in 1971).  SWC opponents could even choose UH's home stadium for the first few years.  Only UT and aTm took advantage of this, forcing UH to play its first conference games against them at Rice Stadium instead of the Dome.

So I'm sorry if you feel UH screwed you over while in the SWC, but we forced our way into it, something UNT couldn't do.

[UNTLifer]

10 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

So I'm sorry if you feel UH screwed you over while in the SWC, but we forced our way into it, something UNT couldn't do.

B.S.

1.  North Texas was held back by SMU, which didn't want a large public university in their backyard competing for recruits.

2.  North Texas was recruiting African American athletes way before any SWC team, breaking the color barrier with Abner Haynes.

3. North Texas was a force in the late 60's, fell a little after Mitchell retired and then were very strong and ranked under Fry during the mid 70's.

 

[NTXCoog]

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

B.S.

1.  North Texas was held back by SMU, which didn't want a large public university in their backyard competing for recruits.

2.  North Texas was recruiting African American athletes way before any SWC team, breaking the color barrier with Abner Haynes.

3. North Texas was a force in the late 60's, fell a little after Mitchell retired and then were very strong and ranked under Fry during the mid 70's.

 

SMU could not keep UNT out of the SWC if they had accomplished similar to UH.  And SMU could not stop UNT outside the SWC just like Rice couldn't stop UH.  There was no need for UT to attempt to control UNT at any point in time as UNT was never considered a threat.

Agreed UNT was recruiting AA Athletes before anyone else in TX, including some players that became very prominent both in college and the pros, but none were headline makers for HS recruiting like Warren McVea.  They became great at UNT.  UNT recruitment of the AA athlete was not considered a challenge to power at UT. 

North Texas was good in the late 60s and a few years in the mid 70s, but a force?  Ranked one year in one poll is not enough to get considered as either a needed asset or a challenge to power.  Maybe enough to keep an eye on and if bigger success occurred or success was constant, then maybe UNT has to be dealt with positively or negatively.  But that didn't happen and UNT went another direction.

[untjim1995]

49 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

SMU could not keep UNT out of the SWC if they had accomplished similar to UH.  And SMU could not stop UNT outside the SWC just like Rice couldn't stop UH.  There was no need for UT to attempt to control UNT at any point in time as UNT was never considered a threat.

Agreed UNT was recruiting AA Athletes before anyone else in TX, including some players that became very prominent both in college and the pros, but none were headline makers for HS recruiting like Warren McVea.  They became great at UNT.  UNT recruitment of the AA athlete was not considered a challenge to power at UT. 

North Texas was good in the late 60s and a few years in the mid 70s, but a force?  Ranked one year in one poll is not enough to get considered as either a needed asset or a challenge to power.  Maybe enough to keep an eye on and if bigger success occurred or success was constant, then maybe UNT has to be dealt with positively or negatively.  But that didn't happen and UNT went another direction.

Rice was a doormat by the mid-70s, leaving the Houston market void of anything to support locally, unlike DFW, which had SMU and TCU, as well as a lot of Baylor influence, as well. UH had to overcome one school, with nobody else supporting their efforts to block Houston from joining. North Texas had three local to fairly local schools blocking the path, as well as Rice supporting them from Houston. From what we know, Arkansas, Texas, Houston, A&M, and Tech were either in favor of us joining or would agnostic to it.

If we had gotten in, it would be so interesting to see where we would be today. I suspect it would be similar to where UH has been, maybe not quite as successful in football as you guys have been, post-SWC, but similar in conference-affiliation. Not only that, but we would have jumped SMU on the totem pole because of their death penalty and actually being in the SWC at the same time.

The bigger one to look at, though, is the Big Eight. Let's say we joined them in the late 70's/early 80's. That's a conference that had national champions in football in the 70s and 80s in Nebraska and Oklahoma, as well as a national champion in basketball in Kansas in the 80's--not even to mention Colorado's rise to the top in the early 90's in football, as well as Oklahoma, Missouri, and K-State's excellent basketball programs of that time. If we had any modicum of success in that league, even with the SWC at its peak, we would have gotten a lot of attention from media, fans, and recruits. We would have been playing in an actual real football stadium in Denton, too, if we got to play OU, OSU, KU, KSU, CU, MU, ISU, and NU every other year here in football, not to mention what those teams would have brought each year to the Super Pit.

Its why that decision in 1978 to not get included into the SWC is so glaring here. We should have had a Plan B or a better Plan A, but we didn't. We get shot down, our teams of the 70s don't get a bowl bid or an NCAA bid, Fry and Blakely leave, the Old Nestors regain control, we drop down to I-AA for 12 years, join some collection of teams called the Southland Conference, and the rest is history. We killed off generations of fans at a time when we should have been gaining fans, not to mention huge numbers of students and alumni at our growing university. It haunts us today in everything--from attendance, fundraising, and recruiting.

[NTXCoog]

38 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Rice was a doormat by the mid-70s, leaving the Houston market void of anything to support locally, unlike DFW, which had SMU and TCU, as well as a lot of Baylor influence, as well. UH had to overcome one school, with nobody else supporting their efforts to block Houston from joining. North Texas had three local to fairly local schools blocking the path, as well as Rice supporting them from Houston. From what we know, Arkansas, Texas, Houston, A&M, and Tech were either in favor of us joining or would agnostic to it.

If we had gotten in, it would be so interesting to see where we would be today. I suspect it would be similar to where UH has been, maybe not quite as successful in football as you guys have been, post-SWC, but similar in conference-affiliation. Not only that, but we would have jumped SMU on the totem pole because of their death penalty and actually being in the SWC at the same time.

The bigger one to look at, though, is the Big Eight. Let's say we joined them in the late 70's/early 80's. That's a conference that had national champions in football in the 70s and 80s in Nebraska and Oklahoma, as well as a national champion in basketball in Kansas in the 80's--not even to mention Colorado's rise to the top in the early 90's in football, as well as Oklahoma, Missouri, and K-State's excellent basketball programs of that time. If we had any modicum of success in that league, even with the SWC at its peak, we would have gotten a lot of attention from media, fans, and recruits. We would have been playing in an actual real football stadium in Denton, too, if we got to play OU, OSU, KU, KSU, CU, MU, ISU, and NU every other year here in football, not to mention what those teams would have brought each year to the Super Pit.

Its why that decision in 1978 to not get included into the SWC is so glaring here. We should have had a Plan B or a better Plan A, but we didn't. We get shot down, our teams of the 70s don't get a bowl bid or an NCAA bid, Fry and Blakely leave, the Old Nestors regain control, we drop down to I-AA for 12 years, join some collection of teams called the Southland Conference, and the rest is history. We killed off generations of fans at a time when we should have been gaining fans, not to mention huge numbers of students and alumni at our growing university. It haunts us today in everything--from attendance, fundraising, and recruiting.

You include Baylor in UNT's sphere of influence and don't include aTm in Houston's?   aTm had much more power in the SWC than SMU, TCU, and Baylor combined.

It's funny you knock Rice as a doormat by the mid-70s.  TCU?  From 1966-1983, they had 1 winning season.  Not many more until 1998. So pretty much a doormat too. 

I'm not sure where UNT goes if they make the SWC in the early '80s.  Arkansas is gone in just a few years.  The conference announces it is dead in about a decade.  With the increase in competition, does UNT drop to Rice and TCU level in the SWC?

Does UNT go with UH to CUSA or does it join the rest of the SWC leftovers in the WAC?  Probably the WAC, then UNT gets left out of the MWC because it's not aligned in any way with the Airport 5.  Do they then join CUSA in 2005 or do they stay in a dying WAC? 

At some point in all of this, UNT would have had to devote resources or they're like Rice or worse.  No Sun Belt type championship runs in the WAC or CUSA without it. 

[UNTLifer]

37 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

You include Baylor in UNT's sphere of influence and don't include aTm in Houston's?   aTm had much more power in the SWC than SMU, TCU, and Baylor combined.

It's funny you knock Rice as a doormat by the mid-70s.  TCU?  From 1966-1983, they had 1 winning season.  Not many more until 1998. So pretty much a doormat too. 

I'm not sure where UNT goes if they make the SWC in the early '80s.  Arkansas is gone in just a few years.  The conference announces it is dead in about a decade.  With the increase in competition, does UNT drop to Rice and TCU level in the SWC?

Does UNT go with UH to CUSA or does it join the rest of the SWC leftovers in the WAC?  Probably the WAC, then UNT gets left out of the MWC because it's not aligned in any way with the Airport 5.  Do they then join CUSA in 2005 or do they stay in a dying WAC? 

At some point in all of this, UNT would have had to devote resources or they're like Rice or worse.  No Sun Belt type championship runs in the WAC or CUSA without it. 

Lot's of opinion in this response.  All we can do is speculate as to how North Texas would have faired/responded to inclusion in the SWC and then to the break up.

[wardly]

Anyone know UNT's average home attendance during the Fry era?

[UNTLifer]

Not exact, but we never filled up Fouts and that was without the endzone seating.

[Aquila_Viridis]

I don't think there's any dispute that the leaders and supporters of Houston have always wanted it more than the leaders and supporters of North Texas.  And unfortunately for both, the price to be involved has gone up so much, but so have the rewards.