DRC: Why Littrell's $1 million contract is a good sign for UNT

Brett Vito · June 3, 2017

DRC: Paying $1 million for Littrell makes more sense once one looks closer at situation, deal

http://beta.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/06/03/thoughts-unt-investing-big-seth-littrell

oldguystudent · June 3, 2017

Quote

If UNT wants to be a pig player in college athletics, it's going to have to pay to make it happen.

Oh dear god. Best typo ever!

GrandGreen · June 3, 2017

I really don't understand the logic in this article. There are lots of good points about NT having the money to move up the food chain. However, tell me what did NT gain by signing this contract?

It is a lot more than $100k more a year, it obligates the school to another +$1m for an extra year.

Also the recruiting ratings mean exactly nothing at this time of year, but if you think it does look at the average recruit ratings of committed players which ranks NT close to the bottom. That quantity advantage in the rankings will quickly disappear because NT is supposed to honor several blue shirt commitments that will substantially reduce the number of ships.

I fail to see any additional support for IMO a hasty one-sided contract. A lot of the same bogus points could have and probably were used to support McCarney's extension. I also fail to see how waiting a year before even thinking about a new contract would not have been a lot better for NT.

Wag Tag · June 3, 2017

I had thought this would be the kind of starting pay when we announched Seth's hiring. Prove you can recruit at least a top 4 CUSA class and a ranking in the 80's nationally! GMG

NTPoonKing · June 4, 2017

GrandGreen gets it

El Paso Eagle · June 4, 2017

For years on this board so many bitched and complained that North Texas does not act like a big-time school when it comes to our contracts. Now we do and everyone finds complaints as to why this coach doesn't deserve something. The university is finally starting to put the structure in place for a well compensated athletic department. Even if Seth leaves we will not go back down to a lower level coach. Folks we have not had a quality athletic department for years. It is going to take time to build this up to where we wanted to be.

MeanGreen_MBA · June 4, 2017

23 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

For years on this board so many bitched and complained that North Texas does not act like a big-time school when it comes to our contracts. Now we do and everyone finds complaints as to why this coach doesn't deserve something. The university is finally starting to put the structure in place for a well compensated athletic department. Even if Seth leaves we will not go back down to a lower level coach. Folks we have not had a quality athletic department for years. It is going to take time to build this up to where we wanted to be.

This!!

GMG24 · June 4, 2017

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

For years on this board so many bitched and complained that North Texas does not act like a big-time school when it comes to our contracts. Now we do and everyone finds complaints as to why this coach doesn't deserve something. The university is finally starting to put the structure in place for a well compensated athletic department. Even if Seth leaves we will not go back down to a lower level coach. Folks we have not had a quality athletic department for years. It is going to take time to build this up to where we wanted to be.

PREACH. side note ( I'm probably the most impatient sob on the planet)

emmitt01 · June 4, 2017

2 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

For years on this board so many bitched and complained that North Texas does not act like a big-time school when it comes to our contracts. Now we do and everyone finds complaints as to why this coach doesn't deserve something. The university is finally starting to put the structure in place for a well compensated athletic department. Even if Seth leaves we will not go back down to a lower level coach. Folks we have not had a quality athletic department for years. It is going to take time to build this up to where we wanted to be.

You have to understand that nobody around here has ever seen a professionally run athletic department, so when we start acting like one it looks foreign to them. Give them time to adjust.

GrandGreen · June 4, 2017

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

For years on this board so many bitched and complained that North Texas does not act like a big-time school when it comes to our contracts. Now we do and everyone finds complaints as to why this coach doesn't deserve something. The university is finally starting to put the structure in place for a well compensated athletic department. Even if Seth leaves we will not go back down to a lower level coach. Folks we have not had a quality athletic department for years. It is going to take time to build this up to where we wanted to be.

I think you are misreading some comments. This new contract has nothing to do with acting like a big time school. I have written numerous posts about NT is at last acting like it wants to belong in college athletics by substantially increasing resources. A very positive development. However, the fact is NT does not have unlimited resources or anything close to it.

What Littrell deserves means little to me. It is what he can do for NT that matters. Most would argue that no colllege coach deserves or should be paid a million dollars.

North Texas is not a big time athletic school, but it is making significant strides to move up in athletics. I and many others were very happy that NT upped the compensation for a new football and basketball coach. I believe those were wise investments to better the changes of success at NT. However, this new contract only obligates NT more to Littrell and gains next to nothing for the benefit of the school.

1 minute ago, emmitt01 said:

You have to understand that nobody around here has ever seen a professionally run athletic department, so when we start acting like one it looks foreign to them. Give them time to adjust.

You are sure that is what we have now. After RV, almost anything is an improvement. However, there is more to having a "professionally ran department" then just spending a lot more money. I like many things that Baker has done, but other moves he has made look very questionable to me. I certainly wouldn't be for a new contract for him either at this point.

El Paso Eagle · June 4, 2017

Perhaps there are resources that could become available once donors feel that we are truly committed to running a professional Athletic Department 😎

Wag Tag · June 4, 2017

6 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

I think you are misreading some comments. This new contract has nothing to do with acting like a big time school. I have written numerous posts about NT is at last acting like it wants to belong in college athletics by substantially increasing resources. A very positive development. However, the fact is NT does not have unlimited resources or anything close to it.

What Littrell deserves means little to me. It is what he can do for NT that matters. Most would argue that no colllege coach deserves or should be paid a million dollars.

North Texas is not a big time athletic school, but it is making significant strides to move up in athletics. I and many others were very happy that NT upped the compensation for a new football and basketball coach. I believe those were wise investments to better the changes of success at NT. However, this new contract only obligates NT more to Littrell and gains next to nothing for the benefit of the school.

You are sure that is what we have now. After RV, almost anything is an improvement. However, there is more to having a "professionally ran department" then just spending a lot more money. I like many things that Baker has done, but other moves he has made look very questionable to me. I certainly wouldn't be for a new contract for him either at this point.

No benefit to the school? How about showing a commitment to athletics to the tune of $1m, having the best Assist coaching group I have ever seen in both sports, because we are paying for it! Seth gets hired away UNT gets a bigger payout! This is not a one sided deal.

KRAM1 · June 4, 2017

11 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

For years on this board so many bitched and complained that North Texas does not act like a big-time school when it comes to our contracts. Now we do and everyone finds complaints as to why this coach doesn't deserve something. The university is finally starting to put the structure in place for a well compensated athletic department. Even if Seth leaves we will not go back down to a lower level coach. Folks we have not had a quality athletic department for years. It is going to take time to build this up to where we wanted to be.

El Paso Eagle gets it!

GrandGreen · June 4, 2017

4 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

No benefit to the school? How about showing a commitment to athletics to the tune of $1m, having the best Assist coaching group I have ever seen in both sports, because we are paying for it! Seth gets hired away UNT gets a bigger payout! This is not a one sided deal.

Following your logic, if the new contract was for $2,000,000 a year, than NT would have made a much bigger statement and better deal. About NT getter more if Seth leaves, that is true only for the first two years of the contract. You also don't mention that it will cost NT much more to terminate Littrell in the first four years of the contract. There is a more important factor, it extends NT obligation to Litrell for another year or plus million dollars.

I am not sure what you base your opinion that this is the best assistant group you have seen. Based on who was poached last year, it appears that group was pretty well thought of.

None of this matters if Littrell is as successful as we hope but again I do not see why waiting another year would not have been a lot more in NT's interest.

This is a very one sided deal, here are the numbers cobbled together from Vito's column comparing the contracts.

	Old	New
Base Salary	725k	900k
Total compensation	883	1,000
Auto Allow	7.8	7.8
Radio TV	45	95
Rétention bonus 1st y	45	25
Retention bonus 2-5 y	45	0

Buyout of Littrell by NT
year 1	2500	4500
year 2	1800	3500
year 3	1100	2500
year 4	600	1500
year 5	725	750

Buyout due NT
year 1	1500	2000
year 2	1000	2000
year 3	1000	1050
year 4	600	600
year 5	300	200

Edited June 4, 2017 by GrandGreen

Wag Tag · June 4, 2017

35 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Following your logic, if the new contract was for $2,000,000 a year, than NT would have made a much bigger statement and better deal. About NT getter more if Seth leaves, that is true only for the first two years of the contract. You also don't mention that it will cost NT much more to terminate Littrell in the first four years of the contract. There is a more important factor, it extends NT obligation to Litrell for another year or plus million dollars.

I am not sure what you base your opinion that this is the best assistance group you have seen. Based on who was poached last year, it appears that group was pretty well thought of.

None of this matters if Littrell is as successful as we hope but again I do not see why waiting another year would not have been a lot more in NT's interest.

This is a very one sided deal, here are the numbers cobbled together from Vito's column comparing the contracts.

Old

New

Base Salary

725k

900k

Total compensation

883

1,000

Auto Allow

7.8

7.8

Radio TV

45

95

Rétention bonus 1st y

45

25

Retention bonus 2-5 y

45

0

Buyout of Littrell by NT

year 1

2500

4500

year 2

1800

3500

year 3

1100

2500

year 4

600

1500

year 5

725

750

Buyout due NT

year 1

1500

2000

year 2

1000

2000

year 3

1000

1050

year 4

600

600

year 5

300

200

If the school shows a financial commitment to athletics then alums and fans will follow with a financial commit!

Ben Gooding · June 4, 2017

58 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

If the school shows a financial commitment to athletics then alums and fans will follow with a financial commit!

Negative, Ghost rider. We still, up to this point, have no idea what we truly have in Seth Littrell. For anyone to argure that, makes them naive. His recruiting classes do not foreshadow a promising future. IMO, a 100k raise seems a bit premature, as does a 1 yr extension. The AD does not know what we have in him either. This was blindly done and as the course goes for UNT, par for it. It's all looking meh right now, just meh. But hey, it doesn't yet look like a raging inferno of a dumpster fire. So, improving I suppose.

Travis · June 4, 2017

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

If the school shows a financial commitment to athletics then alums and fans will follow with a financial commit!

only if we win/are successful will they do that.

In the end, he still got a huge raise for going 5-8.

HoustonEagle · June 4, 2017

My objection is that he has not shown he can recruit yet. The shit hole that is UTSA gave this staff a recruiting bitch slap. That after giving us a bitch slap on the field.

After talking with Littrel I honestly believe he is the guy that will get it done around here. That said 4 FBS wins and and backing into a bowl has not proven much yet but shows promise.

What should have been done was convey to him how you would like to improve his contract following progress made next season. More importantly the assistant pool should have been increased significantly this year.