UNT 2017 QB Recruiting update

[GMG24]

16 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I disagree. Recruiting is a monumental piece of the college game. If his 3rd class, though small as of now, holds on par it'll be his worst class as of yet. We keep sitting here hoping to see change in this area, but we're literally regressing. Every G5 program that becomes something of actual substance had top 3 conference class rankings for consecutive years. Teams don't just blow up from bottom third rankings. That just doesn't happen, and it's not going to happen here. 

Short term goal to see marginal improvements in recruiting we must go bowling this year. I think it's paramount for the program and for Seth Littrell's head coaching career. 

Of 169 kids we offered last class 44 signed with a non P5 

[Ben Gooding]

10 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Of 169 kids we offered last class 44 signed with a non P5 

So are you inferring SL is reaching too hard? Or are you inferring SL and his staff doesn't know how to recruit to a G5 program? 

[AustinFromUNT]

21 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

He will not be a 3 star recruit. 

How do you know?

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, AustinFromUNT said:

How do you know?

Because his 1 offer is UNT. He's a QB in the state of Texas that has camped and is from a pretty respectable HS program and he's a NR prospect on 247. That essentially means no one that has seen him throw has taken him overly serious, coaches or recruiting evaluators. 

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

 If his 3rd class, though small as of now, holds on par it'll be his worst class as of yet. We keep sitting here hoping to see change in this area, but we're literally regressing.

If is a mighty big word considering we have 1/4 of our class committed.  Stating that we are regressing thks early in the class is just something for you to bitch about.  Many bring up PJ Fleck and Western Michigan yet he went 1-11 his first year, 8-5 in years 2 and 3 and then 11-1 last year.  You would have run him out of town in year one stating he couldn't coach.

Also, @BTG_Fan1, it is Darden, not Durlin.

[BillySee58]

4 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

While others aren't impressed by his offer list, I think he is a STEAL. Before you look who else hasn't offered watch his tape for yourself and see if you think he looks like a good player. Welcome to the Mean Green Family Kason.

I have watched his film, but cares what I think of it? I'm just an accountant. But I do know how to root for him, which I will do. Welcome to UNT, Kason!

5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

If is a mighty big word considering we have 1/4 of our class committed.  Stating that we are regressing thks early in the class is just something for you to bitch about.  Many bring up PJ Fleck and Western Michigan yet he went 1-11 his first year, 8-5 in years 2 and 3 and then 11-1 last year.  You would have run him out of town in year one stating he couldn't coach

Fleck signed the number 1 class in the MAC in 2014 coming off that 1-11 season.  With him at least you knew by the time he was in year 4 you knew he'd have a loaded roster.

Edited June 19, 2017 by BillySee58

[UNTLifer]

33 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I have watched his film, but cares what I think of it? I'm just an accountant. But I do know how to root for him, which I will do. Welcome to UNT, Kason!

Fleck signed the number 1 class in the MAC in 2014 coming off that 1-11 season.  With him at least you knew by the time he was in year 4 you knew he'd have a loaded roster.

And in the ACC, Clemson's class ranked 3rd and Louisville's 9th

TCU's was 7th in the Big 12 while UT's was 2nd

Houston's was 5th while USF was 1st in the AAC

Marshall was 1st while La Tech was 4th and WKU was 6th in CUSA

In the PAC 12, Colorado had the worst rated class yet won the South Div. and Washinton won the North with the 4th rated class and WSU, who finished second, had the 9th ranked class.

Let the classes finish out, get on campus and develop because there are arguments to support both points, but it takes a couple of years to find out the truth.

Edited June 19, 2017 by UNTLifer

[UNTLifer]

Back on topic, so, do we only sign Martin this class or will we go after one more QB?  My take is that Martin is the only one this class.

[BTG_Fan1]

Just saying Western Michigan has had multiple guys go to the pros via the draft and guys that have performed, while UNT has had no success in the draft. Nor have we had anyone outside of Orr's (1 break out year) and maybe Robertson that have Name recognition like they have. 

Greg Jennings was a 2nd rounder, Tony Scheffler was a 2nd rounder, Jason Babin was a 1st rounder, just to name recent notable 

Also, just a heads up. Western Michigan had the #5 pick in this years draft, Corey Davis, and the guy was a 2*(.7444) ranking with only 1 offer which was Western Michigan. 

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Corey-Davis-30611/RecruitInterests

Also, compare the Facilities to ours.. 

http://www.wmubroncos.com/facilities/

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We can keep saying that Fleck and SL match up, but it is not even close. Yes the may in terms of resume, but the other outside factors are not even close. WM has notable Alumni, that have signed big contracts in the NFL that have likely given back ( haven't had time to research this). Also have the history that they have will put them #3 in there state of 5 notable G5/P5 schools behind Michigan, and Michigan State. With Central and Eastern Michigan coming in behind them. They also have multiple facilities that UNT has plans to build as well. 

-----------------------------------------

But back tot he topic of the QB Martin. He is another solid addition to the QB room. A big kid, that comes from a solid HS Program. Martin is a HS Coaches son, so he is likely someone that has good practice habits and ability to lead as well. Multiple experts as well have ranked him high, and have talked glowingly about him as well. We have no idea why he has been passed over in terms of offers. He ranks 8th on Dave Campbells top 25 QBs, with him ranking directly Tune who is going to Kansas, and head of LATechs  QB recruit, and Techs QB as well. 

The likely reason for the lack of offers, is because this past season (his JR Year) was his only year of starting. This is also his first round of camps that he is the known as the starter and colleges have almost entirely locked up their QBs for the classes. HS QBs are some of the first targets and "commits" to teams so that they can help appeal to other recruits.

The film of Martin is solid, and he is looks alot like Sam Bradford at QB just in terms of build and accuracy. It will be interesting if he is able to be a Dec Grad. Wouldn't hurt him to put on some weight but it will be interesting to see him and Pearson compete for the job. 

[AustinFromUNT]

Also of note, the last 2 QBs we have recruited are 6'3. That's a pretty solid height to be able to see above the line.

[MeanGreenTexan]

13 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

Let's see what the team who won our conference last season is up to. *checks 247* oh look they only have 1 commit right now. And oh look he is a .7889 2 star commit. WKU is a dumpster fire, they can't recruit, total losers. Call a chicken a chicken. See how that sounds when you apply it to other schools?

WKU's coaching staff just went to Purdue.   Think that may have anything to do with it?   Don't expect WKU to trounce everyone like they have been.  
The fact that they have 1 2* recruit right now does not bode well for them.

Welcome aboard Kason.

[BTG_Fan1]

3 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

Also of note, the last 2 QBs we have recruited are 6'3. That's a pretty solid height to be able to see above the line.

The thing to also notice along with the size, is the accuracy as well of the QBs. That is why at times this year when our offense was moving, it was because the QB was able to get multiple completions in a row and get defenses on their toes. 

Fine and Morris were in the 50s in terms of completion %, I believe last year. Arm Strength can be gained but accuracy is something that takes a lot longer to work on and polish. Bulk up Kason and Pearson and let them battle it out. If Kason can be a Dec Grad, it will be interesting to see QB Battle in a year or 2.

 

[MGNation92]

16 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

He will not be a 3 star recruit. 

15 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

How do you know?

http://247sports.com/Player/Kason-Martin-45573380

 

[AustinFromUNT]

3 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

http://247sports.com/Player/Kason-Martin-45573380

 

That's .0045 off of being a 3 star recruit. That's pretty close imo.

Not to mention 2 more services still could rate and he has all of senior year.

Also of note: SL/GH has brought in a higher rated QB each year than the previous year.

[BTG_Fan1]

2 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

That's .0045 off of being a 3 star recruit. That's pretty close imo.

Not to mention 2 more services still could rate and he has all of senior year.

Also of note: SL/GH has brought in a higher rated QB each year than the previous year.

This is an encouraging sign as well. Bringing in more talented kids at QB is needed.

 

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Note to all:  We didn't hire P.J. Fleck, we hired Seth Litrrell.

Here was P.J. Fleck's 2nd recruiting class:  https://westernmichigan.rivals.com/commitments/football/2014

Of note:
-Western Michigan had just gone 1-11 under Fleck
-In spite of that, he signed 14 3-star players

After a 5-7 season where we APR'd our way into a bowl game, Littrell signed a class with four 3-star players.

So, again...enough with the "P.J. Fleck did this, P.J. Fleck did that."  Littrell has not come close to what P.J. Fleck did with his first two Western Michigan classes.

Edited June 19, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GMG24]

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Note to all:  We didn't hire P.J. Fleck, we hired Seth Litrrell.

Here was P.J. Fleck's 2ncruiting  redclass:  https://westernmichigan.rivals.com/commitments/football/2014

Of note:
-Western Michigan had just gone 1-11 under Fleck
-In spite of that, he signed 14 3-star players

After a 5-8 season where we APR'd our way into a bowl game, Littrell signed a class with four 3-star players.

So, again...enough with the "P.J. Fleck did this, P.J. Fleck did that."  Littrell has not come close to what P.J. Fleck did with his first two Western Michigan classes.

Let it go.  You've made your point. 

[TreeFiddy]

Just to show you how tough coaches have it, of the 15 3 star athletes that WMU signed in 2014, they only have 7 still with the program going in to what should be their redshirt junior/senior season.  It took 1 of the signees an extra year to qualify, 3 of the signees never made it to campus and went to juco and 5 left the program.

Not only do coaches have to recruit a lot of players, you have to assume that 50% of them will be gone before their 4th year in the program. Recruiting has to be the worst part about coaching which is why not everyone is good at it.  

You got to be a salesman to be a good recruiter.  McCarney has the salesman part, he just didn't seem like he still had the desire.  Littrell is young enough to have the desire, but he has to get more comfortable with the selling part.  He can't just rely on being a straight shooter until he starts winning consistently, and by then he probably won't be here.

[BTG_Fan1]

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

Just to show you how tough coaches have it, of the 15 3 star athletes that WMU signed in 2014, they only have 7 still with the program going in to what should be their redshirt junior/senior season.  It took 1 of the signees an extra year to qualify, 3 of the signees never made it to campus and went to juco and 5 left the program.

Not only do coaches have to recruit a lot of players, you have to assume that 50% of them will be gone before their 4th year in the program. Recruiting has to be the worst part about coaching which is why not everyone is good at it.  

You got to be a salesman to be a good recruiter.  McCarney has the salesman part, he just didn't seem like he still had the desire.  Littrell is young enough to have the desire, but he has to get more comfortable with the selling part.  He can't just rely on being a straight shooter until he starts winning consistently, and by then he probably won't be here.

With our situation that we are in we could not afford to lose anyone else, the current staff has taken a few risks with guys like Hoston, Haynes, Johnson who couldn't qualify. That is why I think its a reason that we have all the kids that signed from NSD here, and then we had 2 blueshirts not make in King and Tibbs. 

They got burned by 3 guys who they thought would be critical pieces to that first class that never showed up and it hurt us. Taken a step below and knowing they will be here for the long term is the way they went this class. The good thing is that the kids they have brought in have had alot of offers from schools like Rice that focus on grades. 

Also, that is funny people want to compare to WMU have out of the 15 they lost over half of them lol

Edited June 20, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

[AustinFromUNT]

With the updated recruit ratings, Martin is now rated above Brin.

[BTG_Fan1]

1 hour ago, AustinFromUNT said:

With the updated recruit ratings, Martin is now rated above Brin.

Interesting

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Interesting

That is interesting.  They now have Brin even below Finnegan.  Wonder why they dropped Brin's rating?

[BTG_Fan1]

10 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

That is interesting.  They now have Brin even below Finnegan.  Wonder why they dropped Brin's rating?

Maybe Brin lost offers lol, or the tape was reviewed/other sites rated him differently. 

[Ben Gooding]

Has to be a camp recently attended over the summer with evaluators in attendance given we're not in season. 

[UNTLifer]

Must have been a glitch as Brin's rating is back to where it had been.

Considering we have the following returning after this year:

Shanbour: RS Jr.

Isadore: RS Jr. (non-scholarship)

Fine: Soph.

Cason: RS Fr. (non-scholarship)

Pearson: Fr..

Do we take another QB this class or focus elsewhere?  I think we are done with the Martin commit, but does anyone disagree?

Edited June 23, 2017 by UNTLifer