Academic Types, Please Weigh In

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Apparently, there is a school called Evergreen State College in Washington State.  Three years ago, some outfit named it the most liberal school in America:  http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2014/11/17/survey-finds-evergreen-is-americas-most-liberal-campus-go-geoducks/ .

However, some students there are saying that one of their liberal professors is a racist and have gotten the school's president to give them a raft of concessions with no real investigation into their complaints:  https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/05/30/escalating-debate-race-evergreen-state-students-demand-firing-professor

How do you view this?  The professor in question appears to be a guy who is a liberal academically as you can find; and, therefore, seemingly the perfect fit for the most liberal school in America.

Is there a real chance of freedom of speech being lost when this group of students ages?  Or, do they mostly mellow out once they get laid, get jobs, and get out in the real world, the way many 60s leftists did?  And, from those longer in the tooth, how are this generation of protesters different if at all, from those in the 1960s? 

From my perspective, it's difficult to have much sympathy for the professor or president because they have built their reputation and careers on politically liberal principles.  And now, it would seems, it is a case of the students biting the hands that have fed them.

I certainly can empathize, at minimum, with the professor because he makes a rational argument, yet is called a racist simply for being white.  Again, though, he likely believes in the vast majority of what the kids complain of...unless, and until, of course, his job is on the line.

Finally, is it weird that the "mainstream media" is nowhere on this story?  

Many questions, but I'd really like to hear from those involved in college academics most of all. 

Just for a point of reference, here is what the students demanded, and what the president gave them:
Demands:  http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/complete-list-of-student-demands/
Concessions:  http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/george-bridges-statement-in-response-to-student-demands-delivered-in-the-longhouse-on-friday-may-26/

Edited May 31, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GreenMachine]

I would like to hear from some of the many Libs we have on the board. Very good post. Thanks

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I used the word "conservative" in a sentence and got kicked off for a month ... Wow....  I was not even trashing or complementing anyone..

...

.In fact this what I said about have guns on campus ..and in my own college classroom... (guess I will get kicked off again) ..

-----------------

Real conservatives (if they really are one) should be offended that we now have more government interference... I am disappointed ... let each school make their own decision... they are capable of that .. they understand the conditions on their campus better than someone in Austin (or Washington )... just pointing out the obvious... No I am not always wrong and neither is anyone here always right...

 

[UNTFan23]

1 hour ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

Real conservatives (if they really are one) should be offended that we now have more government interference... I am disappointed ... let each school make their own decision... they are capable of that .. they understand the conditions on their campus better than someone in Austin (or Washington )... just pointing out the obvious... No I am not always wrong and neither is anyone here always right...

Are you even aware of what is going on up there on that campus? Students wanted all white (would this include Hispanics as well?) people to not show up for a day. I can't begin to imagine how that is even remotely legal.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

I don't want to hear from "libs" or "conservatives."  That isn't what this is about.  This is about whether or not this whole protest business has completely jumped the shark when they start going after professors who have spent their entire careers being sympathetic to their cause.

Liberal or conservative aside, it appears to me that you have many kids out there who simply will not process different points of view.  Not just that they can't defend their own point of view logically, but won't. 

To me, this has to be frightening for academics.  That's why I wanted to hear from academics, not just a knee-jerk mix of "liberal" or "conservative" viewpoints.

And, again, let me just say this from the perspective of someone with a Literature degree:  how can anyone take your "demands" seriously when you cannot even punctuate correctly?  I'm not in academics or teaching, so can someone who is explain to me how grammar is being taught today, if at all?  Simple concepts in drafting a paper such as organizing into paragraphs even?  Are kids even required to do research papers in most places?

I just know what I see at home.  My fifth grader had to write - and present (thankfully) - two biographical essays this year.  He hated it, but gutted them out.  I am thankful for that much from our school district's fifth grade curriculum - making the kids do things they don't want to do, but will help them in the future.

But, you who are educators, what are you seeing in the classroom in schools and colleges these days?

 

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 hour ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

I used the word "conservative" in a sentence and got kicked off for a month ... Wow....  I was not even trashing or complementing anyone..

...

.In fact this what I said about have guns on campus ..and in my own college classroom... (guess I will get kicked off again) ..

-----------------

Real conservatives (if they really are one) should be offended that we now have more government interference... I am disappointed ... let each school make their own decision... they are capable of that .. they understand the conditions on their campus better than someone in Austin (or Washington )... just pointing out the obvious... No I am not always wrong and neither is anyone here always right...

 

I'm not quite following how this is relevant to the question being asked.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

1 hour ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

I used the word "conservative" in a sentence and got kicked off for a month ... Wow....  I was not even trashing or complementing anyone..

...

.In fact this what I said about have guns on campus ..and in my own college classroom... (guess I will get kicked off again) ..

-----------------

Real conservatives (if they really are one) should be offended that we now have more government interference... I am disappointed ... let each school make their own decision... they are capable of that .. they understand the conditions on their campus better than someone in Austin (or Washington )... just pointing out the obvious... No I am not always wrong and neither is anyone here always right...

 

I agree, totally agree there.  Same as a business can put a sticker on the door telling potential patrons, "No Firearms Allowed" here.

 

Woah, and now this:
http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article153810709.html

They closed the campus down today.  Unbelievable.  Wonder if any national press will now begin to cover the story.

Edited June 1, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GTWT]

After receiving my Ph.D. from UNT I taught for four years at a small church-related school in rural Tennessee.  More recently (the last 10 years) I have been on the faculty of a medium sized state university.  So I qualify as an academic.  So my opinion of the Evergreen State issue is that the students have a right to demand any silly thing they want - that's free speech.  The administration is not obligated to give in to their demands.  Hopefully, a dialog will be fostered that will improve understanding by all viewpoints. 

Personally I wouldn't want to be involved with a college that would close without much more reason than appears to have been involved here.

By the way, I've been following the story on 'main-stream' media so you're way off there.  The Chronicle of Higher Education certainly gave the story a different slant than Fox News - maybe that's why you should read a diverse selection of outlets.  By all means read Fox, but also read MSNBC. 

Also, Fox News reports that the closure of the college was for "public safety" not as a capitulation to the group of students.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/01/evergreen-state-college-closed-due-to-direct-threat-to-campus-safety.html

Edited June 2, 2017 by GTWT

[UNTFan23]

11 hours ago, GTWT said:

After receiving my Ph.D. from UNT I taught for four years at a small church-related school in rural Tennessee.  More recently (the last 10 years) I have been on the faculty of a medium sized state university.  So I qualify as an academic.  So my opinion of the Evergreen State issue is that the students have a right to demand any silly thing they want - that's free speech.  The administration is not obligated to give in to their demands.  Hopefully, a dialog will be fostered that will improve understanding by all viewpoints. 

Personally I wouldn't want to be involved with a college that would close without much more reason than appears to have been involved here.

By the way, I've been following the story on 'main-stream' media so you're way off there.  The Chronicle of Higher Education certainly gave the story a different slant than Fox News - maybe that's why you should read a diverse selection of outlets.  By all means read Fox, but also read MSNBC. 

Also, Fox News reports that the closure of the college was for "public safety" not as a capitulation to the group of students.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/01/evergreen-state-college-closed-due-to-direct-threat-to-campus-safety.html

What's your opinion on the Day of Absence, which is what got the ball rolling on this situation in Evergreen?

Edited June 2, 2017 by UNTFan23

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

13 hours ago, GTWT said:

After receiving my Ph.D. from UNT I taught for four years at a small church-related school in rural Tennessee.  More recently (the last 10 years) I have been on the faculty of a medium sized state university.  So I qualify as an academic.  So my opinion of the Evergreen State issue is that the students have a right to demand any silly thing they want - that's free speech.  The administration is not obligated to give in to their demands.  Hopefully, a dialog will be fostered that will improve understanding by all viewpoints. 

Personally I wouldn't want to be involved with a college that would close without much more reason than appears to have been involved here.

By the way, I've been following the story on 'main-stream' media so you're way off there.  The Chronicle of Higher Education certainly gave the story a different slant than Fox News - maybe that's why you should read a diverse selection of outlets.  By all means read Fox, but also read MSNBC. 

Also, Fox News reports that the closure of the college was for "public safety" not as a capitulation to the group of students.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/01/evergreen-state-college-closed-due-to-direct-threat-to-campus-safety.html

Thank you for the first part.  That's what I was looking for.

But, ??? to the second part.

I didn't link to FOXNews or quote it.  I linked to Inside Higher Ed. Seattle Post Intelligencer, and Cooper Point Journal.  I would argue that none of those three is what people would consider "conservative."  Perhaps I'm wrong.  Can someone refresh my memory as to whom the Seattle Post Intelligencer endorsed for president over the past few elections?   

Maybe I'd have given an MSNBC link...if they'd reported on the story.  See the dilemma.  I can't read or link the MSNBC angle if they don't have one.

WaPo finally reported on it this morning...by simply posting an AP article on their site:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/higher-education/threat-closes-washington-college-after-protests-over-race/2017/06/01/b4f6de24-4735-11e7-8de1-cec59a9bf4b1_story.html

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GTWT]

3 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

What's your opinion on the Day of Absence, which is what got the ball rolling on this situation in Evergreen?

The dissidents asked that white students voluntarily stay off campus for a day.  It's okay to ask.  It's also okay to ignore that request.  The feces hit the fan when a professor published a letter in the Wall Street Journal disagreeing with the philosophy behind the 'Day of Absence".  Some students labelled him "racist" & demanded his termination.  That, in my opinion, and assuming all my in formation is correct, was ridiculous & should be ignored by the administration.

[GTWT]

Here's an article on Dr. Weinstein, the biology professor at the center of the controversy:

http://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Professor-Who-Roiled/240267?cid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en&elqTrackId=4896f9ef6c4c4a0b81cd471abc54aa85&elq=b3440c89e13f41a0bd56680f43ad5eac&elqaid=14196&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=5961

[UNTLifer]

On 6/2/2017 at 11:33 AM, GTWT said:

The dissidents asked that white students voluntarily stay off campus for a day.  It's okay to ask.  It's also okay to ignore that request.  The feces hit the fan when a professor published a letter in the Wall Street Journal disagreeing with the philosophy behind the 'Day of Absence".  Some students labelled him "racist" & demanded his termination.  That, in my opinion, and assuming all my in formation is correct, was ridiculous & should be ignored by the administration.

Points to ponder.  As more ask for inclusion and push for further desegregation, it appears they are demanding segregation.  Their point of view seems very convoluted and contradictory.  

[GTWT]

36 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Points to ponder.  As more ask for inclusion and push for further desegregation, it appears they are demanding segregation.  Their point of view seems very convoluted and contradictory.  

Personally I agree with you.  Still, the students have a right to make demands, even if those demands are silly.

Here's another recent piece from the Chronicle of Higher Education talking about the efforts of a Republican state legislator to defund Evergreen:

http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/as-new-threat-closes-evergreen-state-students-rip-legislation-that-would-cut-its-funding/118801?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en&elqTrackId=431b51dc22604c898a162f9c64d27b08&elq=5dbe32924d9f431b98d2de633188b0b4&elqaid=14192&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=5958

[UNTFan23]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Points to ponder.  As more ask for inclusion and push for further desegregation, it appears they are demanding segregation.  Their point of view seems very convoluted and contradictory.  

Perhaps they are thinking separate but equal?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

On 6/1/2017 at 4:43 PM, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I'm not quite following how this is relevant to the question being asked.

I mentioned the word "Conservative" and got kicked of... it is not what I said about guns which wasn't insulting to anyone  .. others were posting about guns. ... The article and the posts afterwards on this thread  are way past just mentioning "Liberal/Conservative"  or what I said and nothing happened..... that was my point entirely.  ....  

[JesseMartin]

Some of those demands are pretty reasonable, like the creation of an equity and diversity center. But some are weird. Like the part where the code of conduct has to be approved by students...well...if they felt a state or federal law was one they didn't want to adhere to, it would be left off...even though it's a state funded school that could lose its funding if found to be noncompliant. I agree with your points about writing abilities...syntax aside, these demands weren't very well researched. Or perhaps they put in some extreme ones on purpose just to get concessions on the more realistic ones.