DRC: UNT delays construction of new track/soccer venue

keith · May 30, 2017

This is a confusing article. I think Mr. Vito needs to do some more digging instead of just taking talking point quotes from campus officials and printing them.

There's two separate projects 1) the construction of the track/soccer complex and 2) demolition and eventual redevelopment of Fouts. The first one we are told is locked and loaded, ready to go. Aside from not being able to demolish Fouts until the new facility is operational, it doesn't seems that the two projects are linked. The article makes it sound like they are. Vito says, "Once those officials took a closer look at their timeline, they decided it would be better for the university to leave Fouts in place for a few additional months." So, because they want to leave Fouts in place for a few additional months, the start of the Track/Soccer complex has to be delayed? Why? Better how? They didn't say that Fouts would have to stay place, but it would be better (somehow) if it did. Please explain. Seems these two things (starting construction and leaving Fouts alone) are independent.

The plan for the tracker/soccer complex was approved...."UNT's Board of Regents approved a plan in February to build a soccer/track stadium..."

The funding is in place... "Bob Brown, UNT's vice president for finance and administration, said the university has the funding in place for the $11.9 million soccer/track complex."

The design is done and is apparently a hit with the coaches/teams..."Both Sheffield and Hedlund said the venue UNT has planned will help their programs improve. "We love what they produced as far as design," Sheffield said.

Yet we are told (without any real explanation) that we need to wait..."School officials said extending the timeline for design and construction of the facility will allow UNT to build the best venue possible." How so? The design is done so we should already know what we are getting. How is it going to be better by waiting? The money is approved and the budget set. I doubt more money is forthcoming to build a better venue than the one already on the drawing board.

Then we have this...""It's a financial decision," said Paul Corliss, a spokesman for the UNT System. "Our facilities, planning and construction team felt that opening the project up for bid would deliver the most value and help ensure the project is completed within budget." You mean this project wasn't already opened up for bid? How is that possible? It sounds to me like the facilities planning and construction team had no idea this project was in the works and are just now getting involved.

Mr. Vito adds that, "Moving the project back will benefit UNT's track program in the long-term..." How so? I get that completing the new track/soccer complex (as soon as possible) will benefit the program in the long-term, but how exactly does moving the project back benefit it? The article then goes on to contradict this statement by describing all the problems the track program has faced and will face by staying at Fouts. Please tell us (specifically) how delaying the project will help the program.

Aldo · May 30, 2017

On 5/27/2017 at 9:35 AM, Travis said:

Well, I would rather it be done right than be done fast.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that...

Ben Gooding · May 30, 2017

1 hour ago, keith said:

This is a confusing article. I think Mr. Vito needs to do some more digging instead of just taking talking point quotes from campus officials and printing them.

There's two separate projects 1) the construction of the track/soccer complex and 2) demolition and eventual redevelopment of Fouts. The first one we are told is locked and loaded, ready to go. Aside from not being able to demolish Fouts until the new facility is operational, it doesn't seems that the two projects are linked. The article makes it sound like they are. Vito says, "Once those officials took a closer look at their timeline, they decided it would be better for the university to leave Fouts in place for a few additional months." So, because they want to leave Fouts in place for a few additional months, the start of the Track/Soccer complex has to be delayed? Why? Better how? They didn't say that Fouts would have to stay place, but it would be better (somehow) if it did. Please explain. Seems these two things (starting construction and leaving Fouts alone) are independent.

The plan for the tracker/soccer complex was approved...."UNT's Board of Regents approved a plan in February to build a soccer/track stadium..."

The funding is in place... "Bob Brown, UNT's vice president for finance and administration, said the university has the funding in place for the $11.9 million soccer/track complex."

The design is done and is apparently a hit with the coaches/teams..."Both Sheffield and Hedlund said the venue UNT has planned will help their programs improve. "We love what they produced as far as design," Sheffield said.

Yet we are told (without any real explanation) that we need to wait..."School officials said extending the timeline for design and construction of the facility will allow UNT to build the best venue possible." How so? The design is done so we should already know what we are getting. How is it going to be better by waiting? The money is approved and the budget set. I doubt more money is forthcoming to build a better venue than the one already on the drawing board.

Then we have this...""It's a financial decision," said Paul Corliss, a spokesman for the UNT System. "Our facilities, planning and construction team felt that opening the project up for bid would deliver the most value and help ensure the project is completed within budget." You mean this project wasn't already opened up for bid? How is that possible? It sounds to me like the facilities planning and construction team had no idea this project was in the works and are just now getting involved.

Mr. Vito adds that, "Moving the project back will benefit UNT's track program in the long-term..." How so? I get that completing the new track/soccer complex (as soon as possible) will benefit the program in the long-term, but how exactly does moving the project back benefit it? The article then goes on to contradict this statement by describing all the problems the track program has faced and will face by staying at Fouts. Please tell us (specifically) how delaying the project will help the program.

Just follow blindly, or better incoherently. It's the UNT way.

MeanGreen_MBA · May 30, 2017

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

Just follow blindly, or better incoherently. It's the UNT way.

you are channeling your inner 90 a lot lately young Ben Gooding......I wish you peace and happiness......seek help

GMG24 · May 30, 2017

TreeFiddy · May 30, 2017

It seems like @xyresic pretty much answered what caused the delay (hypothetically of course). Seems like UNT was trying to fast track the project and short cut the bidding process and it started to bite them in the arse before construction even got started so they just decided to boot the contractor and go through the normal vendor selection process, which is causing the delay.

I am not privy to the details, but if this is what happened, it seems wise to cut ties with the contractor now rather than wait for them to put us through the wringer and cause the project to go way over budget.

MeanGreen_MBA · May 30, 2017

42 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

It would be nice to see the SOW right in the middle of the promotion!!!

Quoner · May 30, 2017

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Just follow blindly, or better incoherently. It's the UNT way.

Which one are you?

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 30, 2017

On 5/26/2017 at 4:41 PM, Ben Gooding said:

Not sure what the reason of the delay is, but I hate how things like this are pushed to the right because it delays the hopeful day of having baseball...We need baseball. Not this. Baseball. No one (most) cares about track, soccer, softball, volleyball, tennis, etc. Give us baseball.

I believe most of us want baseball as well. You can look at all the local/regional schools in the NCAA tournament and understand baseball does well in these here parts (TCU, Dallas Baptist, Texas Tech, Texas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Oral Roberts, Rice, Texas Southern all in the NCAA tournament this year).

But, getting any types of men's program up these days is easier said than done due to the requirement that scholarships be equal. What are you proposing for the 12.5 scholarship female sport to balance out the addition of baseball?

By the way, that question isn't just for you, it's to all who clamor for baseball, but don't realize, perhaps, that you've got to also have that many more female scholarships as well. It all costs money...which is in short enough supply with us as it is.

GreenMachine · May 30, 2017

12 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The article says that it was delayed so that they wouldn't rush, that isn't a real reason. There is a reason to slow down the pace and that's isn't because all of a sudden they want the right fit. If that's the reason then what changed or why did they settle on the wrong fit at the start? This new stadium was the start of a new wave of sense of investment into the entire sports program but now they are having 2nd thoughts on what they had originally designed/agreed on.

We have a track program that can not make 1 penny, nor can it even have a "home" track meet. The AD Office told coaches/ players/ recruits and students that it would completed by a certain time and now it won't be.

And again the reason that was given "we don't wanna rush" isn't valid. UNT announced it and promised things, and now they showed they can not follow through or they showed how poorly they plan things with them announcing before it's really done.

That most certainly is a valid reason, just because you don't like it doesn't make it not. If you look at the original timeline, it was very short and would been almost impossible to do all the countless things, from start to finish, to get completed on time. I am glad they are taking their time to get it right.

Cerebus · May 30, 2017

Folks.

Knocking down Fouts is going to temporarily take away parking spots. There already is a big parking spot shortage on campus, mostly because of other construction temporarily taking away spots. This delay could be as simple as waiting for those other projects to finish so that they don't take away even more spots during a long semester.

The students are on the verge of rioting over parking as we speak.

Cr1028 · May 30, 2017

4 hours ago, GMG24 said:

So 45% of the 22 schools playing D1 baseball in Texas got in. The schools most similar to ours, for better or worse, Bobcat U and Roadrunner U did not make the cut. Where will we fall in this hierarchy when the dust settles and we add another $2M annual loss to our AD budget with the addition of aluminum bat baseball?

It should also be noted that one of those 10 schools (Texas Southern) had a fantastic 20-32 record to get that #4 seed.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Cr1028

VideoEagle · May 30, 2017

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Folks.

Knocking down Fouts is going to temporarily take away parking spots. There already is a big parking spot shortage on campus, mostly because of other construction temporarily taking away spots. This delay could be as simple as waiting for those other projects to finish so that they don't take away even more spots during a long semester.

The students are on the verge of rioting over parking as we speak.

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the most correct. Having seen how much OTHER construction is going on, I can easily believe this is the reason.

BTG_Fan1 · May 31, 2017

5 hours ago, GreenMachine said:

That most certainly is a valid reason, just because you don't like it doesn't make it not. If you look at the original timeline, it was very short and would been almost impossible to do all the countless things, from start to finish, to get completed on time. I am glad they are taking their time to get it right.

Everyone is glad that they are getting it right, but they should have gotten it right from the start when they announced it and not months later, but with this slip up it will most likely have a negative affect on the staffs because of promises made to players. They shouldn't rush into anything, everything should be done on a correct and realistic schedule, and this will have have a negative affect in terms of what it does the track program more than soccer.They have taken their time with everything else, but when they said that it would be completed it leads to coaches and players believing that.

To some it maybe a valid reason because its an answer, but to others it is not because they should have planned this out better before making promises that could not be kept. If they had a valid reason like because of construction on other parts of campus or if they wanted to do additional construction added to this plan, that it would be okay, but they have already cut of hundreds of parking spots from campus by Kerr, over by the art building (which I believe they said would be open this fall), and more parking spots in the lot by the Superpit and PEB and it doesn't seem that are adding to this development. Hell its $800+ to get a parking pass in the new parking garage by the Business Building, another $250+ for eagle parking and that is if you are lucky to find a spot, on top of kids living in the dorm can't even park at their own dorm, they have to park at Fouts.

keith · May 31, 2017

6 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Folks.

Knocking down Fouts is going to temporarily take away parking spots. There already is a big parking spot shortage on campus, mostly because of other construction temporarily taking away spots. This delay could be as simple as waiting for those other projects to finish so that they don't take away even more spots during a long semester.

The students are on the verge of rioting over parking as we speak.

That's fine. Fouts can stay there and rot forever. What does this have to do with starting the track/soccer complex on the other side of I35? In other words, you can delay the demolition of Fouts indefinitely, but that shouldn't mean you have to delay an unrelated project does it?

GreenN'walinsVet · May 31, 2017

17 minutes ago, keith said:

That's fine. Fouts can stay there and rot forever. What does this have to do with starting the track/soccer complex on the other side of I35? In other words, you can delay the demolition of Fouts indefinitely, but that shouldn't mean you have to delay an unrelated project does it?

unless some of the funding is tied to the additional parking revenue generated by the removal of Fouts.

Cerebus · May 31, 2017

11 hours ago, keith said:

That's fine. Fouts can stay there and rot forever. What does this have to do with starting the track/soccer complex on the other side of I35? In other words, you can delay the demolition of Fouts indefinitely, but that shouldn't mean you have to delay an unrelated project does it?

I was under the impression the knockdown/build would happen at the same time because the contractor is going to defray the costs by doing both at the same time.

FirefightnRick · May 31, 2017

On 5/29/2017 at 9:52 PM, xyresic said:

Speaking hypothetically (of course) the company tasked with the project had essentially not even begun work, yet found a few creative ways to be several million over budget from the jump. To top it off the company wanted to get lawyers involved, so they were told to kindly exit stage left.

In a situation like that it makes sense to find a new company that will do a solid job with out trying to gouge.

That being said the UNT system group in Dallas is a bit of a fiasco as they add to the cost of these projects with out providing much in return. Hopefully the new chancellor will see this for what it is and allow the Denton campus to thrive with out an unnecessary handicap.

Creativity doesn't seem to be our thing these days or we would have better utilized the 20,000 aluminum endzone bleachers at Fouts' for such projects as a new Track, soccer and possibly baseball stadium...instead of simply bulldozing them and selling for scrap?

Rick

0

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 31, 2017

On 5/28/2017 at 10:31 PM, TheTastyGreek said:

From this year's regular season attendance averages:

Oklahoma - 1,001
Notre Dame - 401
Michigan - 1,023
Ohio State - 1,028
UCLA - 875
USC - 619
Missouri - 805

4 schools in CUSA drew 1,500+ this year, but pulling even a relatively modest crowd of 1,000 per game is too much for those power schools with huge fan bases to manage. Less than 70 schools in all of D1 sports managed 1,000+ per game in 2017.

Even if we managed it for an inaugural season... I'm skeptical that we'd perform that well over any extended period of time, even if we were relatively successful.

I went through and cherry-picked some Dallas Baptist attendance figures from this season
Season Opening Game
Non-Conference vs. ULM: 1,024

Sample of weekend series for baseball, which tend to go like this Friday night, Saturday afternoon, Sunday afternoon:
Non-Conference vs. New Mexico: Friday night: 805; Saturday afternoon: 475; Sunday afternoon: 520
Conference vs. Illinois State: 1,176; 1,461; 643

Regional Mid-Week One-Off, baseball has a ton of these during a season:
vs. Baylor (on a Wednesday, 6:30 pm): 2,013...like Mad's Spy vs. Spy, this is Texas College Baseball's Baptist vs. Baptist.
vs. UT-Arlington (Tuesday, 6:30): 610...hey, it's not Cricket, so the majority of UTA's study body can't be expected to show up for this short roadie.
vs. TCU (Tuesday, 6:30): 1,245...surprisingly, about the same as the conference opener with Illinois State. TCU folks still at work, perhaps?
vs. Oklahoma (Tuesday, 6:30): 1,234...many OU fans in the DFW metroplex, but not enough to drive the attendance over Baptist vs. Baptist tilt.
vs. Abilene Christian (Tuesday, 6:30): 683...many ACU alumni in the DFW area, but not enough to drive attendance over 1,000.

DBU's enrollment is listed at about 5,300. Looks like they do average around 1,000 per baseball game, as good as Oklahoma, a national recognized power with an undergrad enrollment just north of 31,000.

I'm kind of with you here, in saying 1,000 per game probably wouldn't happen. It could. But, I wouldn't put money on it.

To all, baseball has always been my favorite sport since I was just a little child. However, the reality is simply that college baseball does not drive butts into seats very often during a season.

DBU is, to me, probably an outlier because the stadium really is within short walking distance of the dorms. And, there is no football; so, baseball is the main thing. There is a lot more going on at UNT/Denton than there is at DBU.