Recruiting strategy

GMG24 · May 20, 2017

Anyone else wish we recruited the Deep South more? If I was a coach in CUSA I'd be in every school from Louisiana to Florida/Georgia. Primarily Florida, too much speed down there.

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2017

1 hour ago, GMG24 said:

Anyone else wish we recruited the Deep South more? If I was a coach in CUSA I'd be in every school from Louisiana to Florida/Georgia. Primarily Florida, too much speed down there.

Well, yes. I would really, really, really love UNT move to a Gary Patterson style approach or a top NFL team draft approach in recruiting. Go snag up as many highly rated recruits you can get and find their comfort zone on the field and plug and play. Every year countless FCS programs, several around our region, land 1-3 three star players. In my mind, those should be primed to cherry pick. We need talent and we need those guys. JMO

GrandGreen · May 20, 2017

No, there is no reason to spend the resources to recruit the deep south. Doesn't mean NT can't pick up recruits from anywhere, but as a recruiting strategy it makes no sense. There are three prime recruiting areas: Texas, Louisiana; Deep South and California. If you are already in the middle of one if not the most fertile recruiting area in the nation and you can't compete there; than why go to another with just as much if not more competition?

If you can't beat out UTSA, SMU, La Tech, etc. in your own backyard; what makes anyone think NT can beat out Central Florida, Middle Tennessee, FAU in Florida?

NT as a program is not going to be successful unless they can out recruit most G5 teams. Running from competition is not the answer.

GTWT · May 20, 2017

6 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

No, there is no reason to spend the resources to recruit the deep south. Doesn't mean NT can't pick up recruits from anywhere, but as a recruiting strategy it makes no sense. There are three prime recruiting areas: Texas, Louisiana; Deep South and California. If you are already in the middle of one if not the most fertile recruiting area in the nation and you can't compete there; than why go to another with just as much if not more competition?

If you can't beat out UTSA, SMU, La Tech, etc. in your own backyard; what makes anyone think NT can beat out Central Florida, Middle Tennessee, FAU in Florida?

NT as a program is not going to be successful unless they can out recruit most G5 teams. Running from competition is not the answer.

Agree.

Our problem isn't finding talent. Our problem is finding talent that wants to spend 5 years at UNT (recruiting further away won't help that) and finding talent that can be successful, both athletically & academically, at our university.

GMG24 · May 20, 2017

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

No, there is no reason to spend the resources to recruit the deep south. Doesn't mean NT can't pick up recruits from anywhere, but as a recruiting strategy it makes no sense. There are three prime recruiting areas: Texas, Louisiana; Deep South and California. If you are already in the middle of one if not the most fertile recruiting area in the nation and you can't compete there; than why go to another with just as much if not more competition?

If you can't beat out UTSA, SMU, La Tech, etc. in your own backyard; what makes anyone think NT can beat out Central Florida, Middle Tennessee, FAU in Florida?

NT as a program is not going to be successful unless they can out recruit most G5 teams. Running from competition is not the answer.

Because of the same reason a kid chooses a Florida school or any other school not named us that's local, kids want to get away sometimes why not make that an option. Hell fly into Miami spend 3 nights there hit 20-30 schools there fly back. Cost 1,000-1,500 bucks and maybe you pull 2 kids from Florida every year. I'm not saying abandon ship, but the Florida school coaches etc know much less of our history of not winning than TX coaches. Until we start winning a lot and consistently that's a battle we will face with TX coaches, theyll look down at UNT bc of our history and so will the kids. It is what it is, when you were growing up didn't you keep up or have interest in a school who didn't win football games? I wasn't, I was all about OU, ATM etc, I lived in Denton my entire life, took me until my senior year to go to a UNT game. I'm just offering some options if we can't start hauling in good local talent and settling for sloppy seconds all the time.

GrandGreen · May 20, 2017

6 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Because of the same reason a kid chooses a Florida school or any other school not named us that's local, kids want to get away sometimes why not make that an option. Hell fly into Miami spend 3 nights there hit 20-30 schools there fly back. Cost 1,000-1,500 bucks and maybe you pull 2 kids from Florida every year. I'm not saying abandon ship, but the Florida school coaches etc know much less of our history of not winning than TX coaches. Until we start winning a lot and consistently that's a battle we will face with TX coaches, theyll look down at UNT bc of our history and so will the kids. It is what it is, when you were growing up didn't you keep up or have interest in a school who didn't win football games? I wasn't, I was all about OU, ATM etc, I lived in Denton my entire life, took me until my senior year to go to a UNT game. I'm just offering some options if we can't start hauling in good local talent and settling for sloppy seconds all the time.

Florida players can look up football records. This theory that local kids want to get away is a very familiar excuse. Does not seem to effect Houston for example who is build primarily on their area kids. Sure a lot of players do want to get away from home, but many using that rationale ignore the ones that want to stay close to home and family.

Your personal example is a familiar one, but the fact is that NT is no were near competing against OU, A&M and UT. NT is not going to get any players with those kind of offers unless there are very special circumstances.

I do wonder why you refer to recruits as sloppy seconds from the local area, and think somehow that NT is going to get a higher tier of recruits from the Deep South. Not going to happen. The truth is that the further away a recruit is the more likely he is not going to sign and if he does, the more likely he is to leave early.

GMG24 · May 21, 2017

10 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Florida players can look up football records. This theory that local kids want to get away is a very familiar excuse. Does not seem to effect Houston for example who is build primarily on their area kids. Sure a lot of players do want to get away from home, but many using that rationale ignore the ones that want to stay close to home and family.

Your personal example is a familiar one, but the fact is that NT is no were near competing against OU, A&M and UT. NT is not going to get any players with those kind of offers unless there are very special circumstances.

I do wonder why you refer to recruits as sloppy seconds from the local area, and think somehow that NT is going to get a higher tier of recruits from the Deep South. Not going to happen. The truth is that the further away a recruit is the more likely he is not going to sign and if he does, the more likely he is to leave early.

My reference to sloppy seconds is this, Colorado state comes through offers a kid who's probably an FCS kid at best, all of a sudden he ends up with Colorado state, Kansas, k state Iowa state, then we have to bump to the next tier. I wish it wasn't that way, but Herman was full of smoke and mirrors and got kids to stay local on false pretenses and promises. Then as soon as the opportunity presented itself he left. Leaving plenty of kids pretty pissed off. You don't have to believe me, just the observation I've made in my times in the coaching world, unbiased by the way.

Edited May 21, 2017 by GMG24

techdawg88 · May 21, 2017

if Tech can land multiple recruits from UNT's own backyard (Mesquite) why are they choosing Ruston over Denton?

BTG_Fan1 · May 21, 2017

1 hour ago, techdawg88 said:

if Tech can land multiple recruits from UNT's own backyard (Mesquite) why are they choosing Ruston over Denton?

Because all of us when we were younger wanted out of DFW, and because of the production that LAT has turned out.

every year players are drafted from LAT and improving facilities as well.

Ben Gooding · May 21, 2017

6 hours ago, techdawg88 said:

if Tech can land multiple recruits from UNT's own backyard (Mesquite) why are they choosing Ruston over Denton?

That is a great question and I have no earthly idea. We have to start questioning the mental capacity of these kids making this choice at some point.

oldguystudent · May 21, 2017

Question because I really don't know. If you recruit players from out of state, do they pay out of state tuition and therefore increase the cost of the scholarship?

outoftown · May 21, 2017

I am not so sure I love the idea. If there were more resources, sure why not. However, if UNT does offer kids from far out of state, I tend to think those kids better already have a grasp of what college is or better have been really good in school. Thats because if you add the culture change of moving to Texas from say Florida or California to the culture change of becoming a college student and athlete that is already a lot to get through for a 18-20 year old. If then you then throw in a kid who still needs to improve his academic discipline on top of all this, you you start taking risks that may lead to bad roster depth because off players not making it, players not managing to keep the grades and players transfering out because they get homesick because they can't handle all the stress. UNT has had bad roster depth...Its not good for your record.

Ben Gooding · May 21, 2017

Baloney. 100's of Kids commit to out of state universities every year.

wardly · May 21, 2017

I would think that we must compete in our own backyard[which we don't at present] before taking on Florida. In fact, Houston could be our Florida, as they have a ton of good high school players.

GMG24 · May 22, 2017

1 hour ago, wardly said:

I would think that we must compete in our own backyard[which we don't at present] before taking on Florida. In fact, Houston could be our Florida, as they have a ton of good high school players.

keep banging our head against a brick wall? R try something, not all out assault on Florida kids but send a coach or two down there and see if you can't pull a few.

wardly · May 22, 2017

Have you seen our recruiting budget? I agree that if what you are doing isn't working try something else, but we must recruit better in Texas. To your point, Marshall does a good job in Florida, but I would rather see us expand our footprint into Houston and Louisiana.It would be more cost effective, and at least the recruits have heard of us.Just an old man's opinion.

keith · May 22, 2017

On 5/19/2017 at 10:40 PM, GMG24 said:

Anyone else wish we recruited the Deep South more? If I was a coach in CUSA I'd be in every school from Louisiana to Florida/Georgia. Primarily Florida, too much speed down there.

Yes! Especially Florida. For all the same reasons you added in your responses above. I was hoping we would have taken advantage of our trips to FIU and FAU, but nothing seemed to materialize. Perhaps we tried and were unsuccessful. We always like to talk about getting teams to play in Denton because they like to recruit Texas. Do we ever leverage our road trips to build up pipelines? I guess we can just keep doing the same thing we've always done since that has worked out so well for us.

wardly · May 22, 2017

No, it hasn't worked out well. CUSA sets the conference schedule and have not, until this year, included us in a Florida rotation. In addition, most of our road trips are paycheck's with a one and done.Also, we have no big rival and really never have[with SMU it takes 2 to tango]. I thought an annual game with La. Tech in Shreveport might be worth consideration but could never sell it. I don't know what the solution is.

unt_rocket09 · May 22, 2017

Would advise against not recruiting in your own backyard. There is a reason teams from across the nation recruit Texas. It is not feasible to recruit Florida or California. This is real life with real people, not NCAA on Xbox. You have to get HS coaches believing in program, it happens by winning over head coaches and trickles down to the kids.

greenjoe · May 22, 2017

Out of state recruits must pay out of state tuition, or rather their scholarship must pay it. In state kids cost less.

GO MEAN GREEN

MeanGreen_MBA · May 22, 2017

16 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

Out of state recruits must pay out of state tuition, or rather their scholarship must pay it. In state kids cost less.

GO MEAN GREEN

wouldn't this be more an on the books situation? Does money swap for athletic scholarships, or is it just waived and credited on the books for accounting purposes. If so, the school makes out big time for out of state students.

greenjoe · May 22, 2017

Unless things have changed, it's a real charge and not just a paper adjustment. From what I understood, specific to this point, that out of state athletes are charged out of state tuition. A running back from Decatur, Texas is cheaper than a linebacker from Decatur, Georgia.

untjim1995 · May 23, 2017

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 1:51 AM, techdawg88 said:

if Tech can land multiple recruits from UNT's own backyard (Mesquite) why are they choosing Ruston over Denton?

Because Louisiana Tech has had some serious success at football for a long time and puts its emphasis on the football team being its primary window to the university. You know, just like most schools do in this region of the country. Its what Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, USM, Texas State, UTSA, and Troy have done. UAB and UTEP have used basketball as their primary window. Rice, Tulane, SMU, and Tulsa use their sports to compliment their private education and urban locations as their main window.

We don't. Texas HS coaches know this, as well as their parents. Its why we get beat out for recruits in our own backyard. To be honest, its very questionable if this is fixable. We won the SBC 4 years in a row--the recruiting bump was basically nil, which is why we couldn't beat anyone in OOC play back then and why Dickey's teams fell apart and he got fired. We won the HoD Bowl and finished 9-4--and that got us the lowest rated recruiting class in the country the following season, where we dropped back down to 4-8.

Maybe Seth Littrell will improve this-his first full recruiting season was not real impressive, but maybe that will change as he continues to rebuild the system here and gets in the right players to run their offense. All we know is that the recruiting rankings every year are always ugly for us, when compared to other G5s. I don't even count the P5s because of their advantages from budgets, conference affiliations, and reputations. When we lose a recruit to Rice or SMU, as much as I hate it, I get it. But losing them to the Louisiana schools, Arkansas State, UTSA, UTEP, and Texas State just disheartens me--because I know that their staffs aren't fighting apathy and disdain from the TX HS Coaches and parents like we do...and its all been self-inflicted because of the lack of leadership and the apathetic culture. Its the cancer we cannot seem to beat.

GrandGreen · May 23, 2017

21 hours ago, greenjoe said:

Unless things have changed, it's a real charge and not just a paper adjustment. From what I understood, specific to this point, that out of state athletes are charged out of state tuition. A running back from Decatur, Texas is cheaper than a linebacker from Decatur, Georgia.

An out of state recruit cost no more real dollars than an in-state player. Yes, the higher tuition is charged to the athletic department but just adds to the paper loss that is offset by the so called institutional transfers that balance the budget. They don't feed and house out of state students any different than the rest of the athletics or sent them to more expensive classes.

untjim1995 · May 23, 2017

48 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

An out of state recruit cost no more real dollars than an in-state player. Yes, the higher tuition is charged to the athletic department but just adds to the paper loss that is offset by the so called institutional transfers that balance the budget. They don't feed and house out of state students any different than the rest of the athletics or sent them to more expensive classes.

But that is not how the leadership of the school has ever looked at it--they only see the cost that the institution transfer has to incur that could've been used on music, arts, education, lower tuition, or faculty raises.

Athletics is looked at as a cost here--its not ever considered a revenue source, just a cost. And we run this place on known costs only.