Give me Liberty or give me death!

Army of Dad · May 16, 2017

On 5/15/2017 at 2:15 PM, UNTLifer said:

potential of injuries due to the cut block that Army, your Navy team and Air Force employ.

Why would a poster with the handle @BeatNavy be a Navy fan?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Army of Dad

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 16, 2017

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

The crack back block and the cut block are two different techniques.

Yes.

UNTLifer · May 17, 2017

7 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

Why would a poster with the handle @BeatNavy be a Navy fan?

Just poking the bear

GangGreen · May 17, 2017

14 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

We cancelled the Army games to schedule a prominent home game in 2019. Liberty filled the void left by cancelling the away game with Army.

It hasn't been reported that we cancelled the rest of the series. Just 18 & 21, so we could plug Liberty into the Army spots.

2019 is set with Abilene Christian and Army at home per http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/north-texas-mean-green.php

oldguystudent · May 17, 2017

6 hours ago, GangGreen said:

It hasn't been reported that we cancelled the rest of the series. Just 18 & 21, so we could plug Liberty into the Army spots.

2019 is set with Abilene Christian and Army at home per http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/north-texas-mean-green.php

I've known this all along. Still, communicating that dropping the '18 and '21 games were moves in some grander 4D chess match doesn't make any sense to me at all.

We would have been at Army in '18. Now we're at Liberty in '18.

We would have had Army at home in '21. Now we have Liberty at home in '21.

This was a straight up game for game swap from Army to Liberty. It doesn't open up any slots anywhere. The OOC slate is set through 2021.

Unless somehow this swap has convinced Alabama and Ohio St to come to Apogee in 2022 and play with half their team in blindfolds and the other half with one leg hogtied, I just don't for the life of me see what this move has accomplished other than expressing fear of the triple option, inability to negotiate with a not-yet-ready-for-prime time "university" football program, or downright indifference.

I just don't get this move. At all. Not one bit.

Do I look forward to dropping the remaining Army games in '19 and '20 in favor of, oh, I dunno, a home and home with currently NAIA Missouri Baptist as it attempts to make the move to mighty FCS?

What the HELL are we doing here? I do so tire of the cloak and dagger nature of college athletics, everything a secret followed by excuses and ultimate finger pointing at the peon fan base.

Send the apologists to tell me to shut the F up, give more money, and bow down at some campus monument now.

Maybe I'll at least receive both my tickets AND my parking passes this year before the season begins without some kid in the office shouting at me that I'm a liar for saying I haven't received them. Hopefully, at least that part is getting better (It sure as shit didn't for the HOD Bowl).

I still pay my money. I still go to the games. But I gotta tell you, the enthusiasm with which I do so declines with each and every passing year. That's not to be an I'm gonna ragequit threat. I'm not going to fly a banner. I'm not going to stomp my feet and demand something beyond what I believe to be the value of my contributions.

But son, neither am I going to run around in a crop top and poms poms worshiping the very ground that anybody wearing a green shirt walks on.

Finally, just so we're clear on things, athletics is but one facet of the overall university that I support. I'm over the moon excited to share the UNT experience with my daughter this year as she begins her Eagle journey, not a jazz flute in sight. OK, she does plan on using some electives to study jazz at UNT while the opportunity to do so is there, but mainly she's gonna science and math ya'll to kingdom come.

wardly · May 17, 2017

Plus one

UNTcrazy727 · May 17, 2017

2 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

I've known this all along. Still, communicating that dropping the '18 and '21 games were moves in some grander 4D chess match doesn't make any sense to me at all.

We would have been at Army in '18. Now we're at Liberty in '18.

We would have had Army at home in '21. Now we have Liberty at home in '21.

This was a straight up game for game swap from Army to Liberty. It doesn't open up any slots anywhere. The OOC slate is set through 2021.

Unless somehow this swap has convinced Alabama and Ohio St to come to Apogee in 2022 and play with half their team in blindfolds and the other half with one leg hogtied, I just don't for the life of me see what this move has accomplished other than expressing fear of the triple option, inability to negotiate with a not-yet-ready-for-prime time "university" football program, or downright indifference.

I just don't get this move. At all. Not one bit.

Do I look forward to dropping the remaining Army games in '19 and '20 in favor of, oh, I dunno, a home and home with currently NAIA Missouri Baptist as it attempts to make the move to mighty FCS?

What the HELL are we doing here? I do so tire of the cloak and dagger nature of college athletics, everything a secret followed by excuses and ultimate finger pointing at the peon fan base.

Send the apologists to tell me to shut the F up, give more money, and bow down at some campus monument now.

Maybe I'll at least receive both my tickets AND my parking passes this year before the season begins without some kid in the office shouting at me that I'm a liar for saying I haven't received them. Hopefully, at least that part is getting better (It sure as shit didn't for the HOD Bowl).

I still pay my money. I still go to the games. But I gotta tell you, the enthusiasm with which I do so declines with each and every passing year. That's not to be an I'm gonna ragequit threat. I'm not going to fly a banner. I'm not going to stomp my feet and demand something beyond what I believe to be the value of my contributions.

But son, neither am I going to run around in a crop top and poms poms worshiping the very ground that anybody wearing a green shirt walks on.

Finally, just so we're clear on things, athletics is but one facet of the overall university that I support. I'm over the moon excited to share the UNT experience with my daughter this year as she begins her Eagle journey, not a jazz flute in sight. OK, she does plan on using some electives to study jazz at UNT while the opportunity to do so is there, but mainly she's gonna science and math ya'll to kingdom come.

Can we please go back to the post that started this thread? http://beta.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/05/10/unt-drops-two-games-army-continues-adjust-football-schedule

I'll trust our beat reporter to get it right rather than some random schedule website.

untjim1995 · May 17, 2017

2 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

I've known this all along. Still, communicating that dropping the '18 and '21 games were moves in some grander 4D chess match doesn't make any sense to me at all.

We would have been at Army in '18. Now we're at Liberty in '18.

We would have had Army at home in '21. Now we have Liberty at home in '21.

This was a straight up game for game swap from Army to Liberty. It doesn't open up any slots anywhere. The OOC slate is set through 2021.

Unless somehow this swap has convinced Alabama and Ohio St to come to Apogee in 2022 and play with half their team in blindfolds and the other half with one leg hogtied, I just don't for the life of me see what this move has accomplished other than expressing fear of the triple option, inability to negotiate with a not-yet-ready-for-prime time "university" football program, or downright indifference.

I just don't get this move. At all. Not one bit.

Do I look forward to dropping the remaining Army games in '19 and '20 in favor of, oh, I dunno, a home and home with currently NAIA Missouri Baptist as it attempts to make the move to mighty FCS?

What the HELL are we doing here? I do so tire of the cloak and dagger nature of college athletics, everything a secret followed by excuses and ultimate finger pointing at the peon fan base.

Send the apologists to tell me to shut the F up, give more money, and bow down at some campus monument now.

Maybe I'll at least receive both my tickets AND my parking passes this year before the season begins without some kid in the office shouting at me that I'm a liar for saying I haven't received them. Hopefully, at least that part is getting better (It sure as shit didn't for the HOD Bowl).

I still pay my money. I still go to the games. But I gotta tell you, the enthusiasm with which I do so declines with each and every passing year. That's not to be an I'm gonna ragequit threat. I'm not going to fly a banner. I'm not going to stomp my feet and demand something beyond what I believe to be the value of my contributions.

But son, neither am I going to run around in a crop top and poms poms worshiping the very ground that anybody wearing a green shirt walks on.

Finally, just so we're clear on things, athletics is but one facet of the overall university that I support. I'm over the moon excited to share the UNT experience with my daughter this year as she begins her Eagle journey, not a jazz flute in sight. OK, she does plan on using some electives to study jazz at UNT while the opportunity to do so is there, but mainly she's gonna science and math ya'll to kingdom come.

Amen

What separates us in the 2% of alumni that care about athletics is that we still hold our experience at UNT in high regard. We don't expect much from the athletic department because the university's leadership doesn't demand it. So this is why you get a brand new stadium and schedule Texas Southern, Nicholls State, Portland State, Butt-Cookman, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, and Rhode Island. It's getting a long series with Army, a program with a history and a following, and you give it up to play some quasi-FBS team that is nowhere near your campus.

If you still expect things to really change here, your probably gonna be greatly disappointed. If you are still following because it's a chance to tailgate and hang out with some of your buddies, reliving your denton days, it's all probably good to you, no matter what. If you follow this place because it's your alma mater and you want to stay in touch with the university, like me, this is where my sweet spot exists. Because when it comes down to it, most of us on gmg.com want to win more than the university has wanted to for decades. Until it actually happens, I believe expecting a winner here is fools gold.

oldguystudent · May 17, 2017

36 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Can we please go back to the post that started this thread? http://beta.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/05/10/unt-drops-two-games-army-continues-adjust-football-schedule

I'll trust our beat reporter to get it right rather than some random schedule website.

If that article is more accurate than fbsschedules, then we've effectively turned the series with Army into a 2 for 1 with no compensation and now have an open home date with no opponent yet named for 2019.

However...

Quote

The Mean Green will not travel to Army in 2018 or host the Black Knights in 2019. UNT has helped fill that void by scheduling a home-and-home series with Liberty.

Even the way Bret's article is worded, I'm not entirely sure if he got the dates correct. He essentially says we've replaced Army with Liberty, but uses 2019 for Army and 2021 for Liberty home games.

GangGreen · May 17, 2017

@Brett Vito

Can you help clear this up?

TreeFiddy · May 17, 2017

Brett is implying in his article that we dropped the 2018(A) and 2019(H) games with Army and added a 2018(A) and 2021(H) game with Liberty. If you believe the article it means the following:

In 2018 UNT is playing at Liberty instead of at Army
We have an open spot on our schedule in 2019 (Army removed)
We currently have 5 OOC games in 2021: Rhode Island(H), SMU(A), Liberty(H), Army(H), and Missouri(A)

If the article is correct, then there would have to be some more moves to fill the spot in 2019 and remove/reschedule one of the OOC games in 2021.

If the article is not correct, we may have in fact simply swapped Army for Liberty in 2018 and 2021.

Edited May 17, 2017 by TreeFiddy

GangGreen · May 17, 2017

9 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Brett is implying in his article that we dropped the 2018(A) and 2019(H) games with Army and added a 2018(A) and 2021(H) game with Liberty. If you believe the article it means the following:

In 2018 UNT is playing at Liberty instead of at Army

We have an open spot on our schedule in 2019 (Army removed)

We currently have 5 OOC games in 2021: Rhode Island(H), SMU(A), Liberty(H), Army(H), and Missouri(A)

If the article is correct, then there would have to be some more moves to fill the spot in 2019 and remove/reschedule one of the OOC games in 2021.

If the article is not correct, we may have in fact simply swapped Army for Liberty in 2018 and 2021.

As UNTCrazy would say, this random website http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/indep/army-black-knights.php shows no NT/Army game in 2021, however, still shows NT/Army games in 2017, 2019, and 2020.

I tend to think that Brett may have the dates wrong, 2021 would have been the game between NT/Army that would even the series at 3 home/away. Unless, of course, we are dropping the 2019 game, as well. This would mean that we will only have Army visit Denton next year and will travel to NY twice (2016 & 2020).

Ben Gooding · May 17, 2017

It was implied in Brett's initial reporting of this that this freed up a home date in 2019. The 2018 was a 1 for 1 swap via Army & Liberty. The 2019 game with Army is dropped and from what was reported, is still not filled. We host Liberty now in 2021, when and if they fulfill their obligations will actually be FBS. If they somehow finagle their way into CUSA before then (which is a possibility) we will get Tulsa'd. Of course, in UNT fashion, we play the back end of this phenomenal home and home series.

With that said, FBSschedules on their site show that Army is still on the schedule for 2019? So, none of this makes perfect sense. According to same site, we also have Army in 2020. So the two games we dropped must be in 2018 and 2021. Ironically, we have Liberty in those same years now, 2018 & 2021. To note, there has not been no more than a peep out of the AD as to who this secret series is with. It was reported we were in negotiations with someone at the same time it was reported of this series swap. Now, nothing. I am starting to think that this is an absolute 1 for 1 swap of series and we were inadvertently lied to in order to get us to fizzle out. The evidence is there to believe just that. The schedule is booked out to 2022. So, in order to get a decent home and home in the near future, something else would have to be dropped or paid to go away. We can really only afford to pay FCS to go away which by doing so would make the schedule actually harder. It just solidifies that adding Liberty did nothing for schedule maneuvering as were Baker's exact words. Soooo........

Oh, Also to note, sport sites caught wind of this decision and are indirectly calling us bitches, or "defeatists". https://swcroundup.com/news/2017/5/10/north-texas-cancels-series-with-army

11 minutes ago, GangGreen said:

As UNTCrazy would say, this random website http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/indep/army-black-knights.php shows no NT/Army game in 2021, however, still shows NT/Army games in 2017, 2019, and 2020.

I tend to think that Brett may have the dates wrong, 2021 would have been the game between NT/Army that would even the series at 3 home/away. Unless, of course, we are dropping the 2019 game, as well. This would mean that we will only have Army visit Denton next year and will travel to NY twice (2016 & 2020).

I think it's a swap. Liberty is on in 2021, Army is off. Liberty is on in 2018, Army is off. Army is still on in 2019 and 2020. Pretty simple math. Those dates were home and away dates for the series. The other dates with Army are still intact. IF accurate this should be infuriating. Not only did this series generally take place, we were lack of a better word, lied to in order to save face.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Ben Gooding

UNTFan23 · May 17, 2017

FYI: FBSchedules.com is owned by USA Today. Not exactly a fly-by-night type of website.

As to the 2018, 2019, and 2021 games, I think we may see the 2021 game be rescheduled to a date beyond 2022 when all is said and done.

Ben Gooding · May 17, 2017

17 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

FYI: FBSchedules.com is owned by USA Today. Not exactly a fly-by-night type of website.

As to the 2018, 2019, and 2021 games, I think we may see the 2021 game be rescheduled to a date beyond 2022 when all is said and done.

True. They had the Liberty dates up within hours of the announcement. Unless they messed up their dates (which I doubt) or Brett reported dates incorrectly, it was a 1 for 1 series swap and we have been lied to. We have Liberty in 2018 and 2021 and we no longer have Army in those same years. We also have no room for flexibility or as WB called it maneuvering until 2022. And that's not a case of maneuverability, it's just the next unbooked open date on our schedule.

For a program that has struggled so mightily for games even with the likes of Army, you don't take them off the books and replace them with teams we have no problem scheduling whatsoever as bought home games or in this case what should have been a bought home game. But people will come on and defend, because some people have it in their DNA not to question anything in their lives. Just get in line like a good boy and aimlessly zombie walk to the end.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Ben Gooding

TreeFiddy · May 17, 2017

Brett wrote a follow up article that said he double checked and confirmed that it was 2018 an 2019 that was dropped with Army and 2018 and 2021 that was scheduled with Liberty.

Again, if true, it indicates that additional moves are in fact on the horizon because, at a minimum, another game needs to be added to 2019 and a game removed in 2021.

Ben Gooding · May 17, 2017

2 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Brett wrote a follow up article that said he double checked and confirmed that it was 2018 an 2019 that was dropped with Army and 2018 and 2021 that was scheduled with Liberty.

Again, if true, it indicates that additional moves are in fact on the horizon because, at a minimum, another game needs to be added to 2019 and a game removed in 2021.

OK, good. It doesn't minimize the series, but at least it wasn't a blatant lie. If so, that would be more concerning than the series itself. So whatever it is we're doing we're looking for home and home for 2019 & 2022. Hopefully we get the front end of the deal this time around, what ever deal it ends up being.

TreeFiddy · May 17, 2017

Still lots of unknowns and very little info coming out of Bonnie Brae to remove the confusion. I hope Brett is correct and that there is an opportunity on the 2019 calendar and if true, I really hope that WB is able to add someone that we will all be excited about. What I don't hope is that it turns out that we just swapped two games with Army for two games with Liberty.

Ben Gooding · May 17, 2017

Just now, TreeFiddy said:

Still lots of unknowns and very little info coming out of Bonnie Brae to remove the confusion. I hope Brett is correct and that there is an opportunity on the 2019 calendar and if true, I really hope that WB is able to add someone that we will all be excited about. What I don't hope is that it turns out that we just swapped two games with Army for two games with Liberty.

That would piss me off. And should everyone associated with this University.

UNTFan23 · May 17, 2017

23 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Brett wrote a follow up article that said he double checked and confirmed that it was 2018 an 2019 that was dropped with Army and 2018 and 2021 that was scheduled with Liberty.

Again, if true, it indicates that additional moves are in fact on the horizon because, at a minimum, another game needs to be added to 2019 and a game removed in 2021.

2021 is full.

09/04 – Rhode Island
09/11 – at SMU
10/09 – Liberty
10/16 – at Missouri

Out of the six game series we previously had with Army, the 2018 and 2019 games have been completely dropped. The 2021 game needs to be rescheduled to fulfill the remaining four games per the modified agreement. Without knowing what games that have not been agreed upon/announced as of yet, we have openings beginning in 2022.

Ben Gooding · May 17, 2017

19 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

2021 is full.

09/04 – Rhode Island

09/11 – at SMU

10/09 – Liberty

10/16 – at Missouri

Out of the six game series we previously had with Army, the 2018 and 2019 games have been completely dropped. The 2021 game needs to be rescheduled to fulfill the remaining four games per the modified agreement. Without knowing what games that have not been agreed upon/announced as of yet, we have openings beginning in 2022.

So it was a 1 for 1 swap? And our next open date is 2022?

UNTFan23 · May 17, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

So it was a 1 for 1 swap? And our next open date is 2022?

Technically we have an opening in 2019 but I expect that to be filled with a to-be-named opponent.

TreeFiddy · May 17, 2017

5 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

So it was a 1 for 1 swap? And our next open date is 2022?

As of now, we don't have all the information. The beat reporter is reporting that the 2018 and 2019 games with Army were dropped. He did not report anything regarding the existing game with Army in 2021, but did report that a new game was added in 2021 with Liberty. At the same time, we have sites like FBSchedules.com reporting the deal as a simple game for game swap in 2018 and 2021.

Unfortunately, there are more questions than answers at this point. The fact that Baker has not tried to clear up the confusion makes me think he got caught completely unprepared that this information was going to get out and does not have the other pieces of the puzzle defined.

untjim1995 · May 17, 2017

3 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

2021 is full.

09/04 – Rhode Island

09/11 – at SMU

10/09 – Liberty

10/16 – at Missouri

Out of the six game series we previously had with Army, the 2018 and 2019 games have been completely dropped. The 2021 game needs to be rescheduled to fulfill the remaining four games per the modified agreement. Without knowing what games that have not been agreed upon/announced as of yet, we have openings beginning in 2022.

Wow, that 2021 OOC home schedule is just gonna bring dozens of fans here for those awesome opponents...I bet recruits are really gonna love coming here to see Rhode Island and Liberty.

If things hold as they are now, we will host UTSA, UTEP, Rhode Island, Liberty, and two CUSA east teams. ☹️

UNTFan23 · May 17, 2017

Just now, untjim1995 said:

Wow, that 2021 OOC home schedule is just gonna bring dozens of fans here for those awesome opponents...I bet recruits are really gonna love coming here to see Rhode Island and Liberty.

If things hold as they are now, we will host UTSA, UTEP, Rhode Island, Liberty, and two CUSA east teams. ☹️

This is the type of attitude that hurts the growth of the program more than anything else. To be so focused on who we're playing over going to see your alma mater is a very short sighted way to support the school.