Give me Liberty or give me death!

[Side Show Joe]

13 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Jumping the gun a bit here folks...you should be very pleased when you find out who the Army replacement happens to be.  Lots of good info to be had at the Caravans.  Nice crowd at the Denton Caravan...I would estimate better than Dallas...less than Plano.  Shame on Dallas!

KRAM, I'm up on the Red River now and can't make it to the caravans anymore. Please PM me some information, so I can shut up and step back from the ledge. Thanks.

[Ben Gooding]

24 minutes ago, Magic95Fan said:

We are getting annihilated on the CUSA AND the Sun Belt boards for this. I dont like being a topic on the belt board for anything.

I bet we are, and rightfully so. If we were dead set on making this Liberty thing happen, I wish they would've held off on signing until this mystery series negotiating was also done. At least it would've dulled the slap in the face, hopefully. 

[KRAM1]

15 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Doesn't matter.  The point should not be how "tough" it is to play Army.  The issue is whether Liberty is a suitable home and home replacement after buying out of two Army games.

The answer for most of us is, no. 

Maybe Wren learns a lesson here, though:  no matter why you are changing a contract, do not tell why.  And, for pete's sake, don't say it's because the games are too tough!  Can't imagine the defensive players enjoy being thrown under the bus publicly like that...even if it might be true.   

Wren never said the games were too tough.  That ridiculous idea was created here in this forum.  He said it was tough to prepare for a team who runs an offense you will play against only once and that is so different than anything else you will run up against.  BIG difference than saying they are "tough" to play.  You may recall that we beat them at their house pretty soundly and took them to OT in the HOD Bowl.  Hardly too "tough" an opponent to play.

[MeanGreenZen]

All you TrustWren-ers who believe he is going to bring some awesome P5 program to Agogee are forgetting that Army is a better draw than almost ANY P5. 

A good UNT team vs any Army team at Apogee could be our first sellout. A lot of closet UNT fans would love to post pictures of themselves at a game with their school playing Army. You also get the local 'Murica lovin' crowd at a game vs. a service academy.

What P5 could sell out Apogee? Maybe 20 or 25 programs. Is Wren bringing in Ohio State or Notre Dame?

Because I have a feeling that the secret game he is working on for us is with his dream job of Oklahoma State. Will Oklahoma State sell out Apogee?

[DentonLurker]

Why is Army looked at as such a great draw for fans? Looking at last year's road games for them, the average crowd was 64% of capacity of the stadiums they played in, with 4 of 6 games under 60%. While there may be some draw for diehard football fans, I don't think the casual fan is going to feel that same draw to an Army game.

Note: This is not me saying Liberty is going to draw well either. I'm just trying to understand the strong feelings about Army in particular.

[UNTFan23]

33 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

Why is Army looked at as such a great draw for fans? Looking at last year's road games for them, the average crowd was 64% of capacity of the stadiums they played in, with 4 of 6 games under 60%. While there may be some draw for diehard football fans, I don't think the casual fan is going to feel that same draw to an Army game.

Some people feel supporting the military academies as a way of supporting the military in general. Having talked to fans who do come to NT games when we have an one of the academies as an opponent, almost all of them have or know someone who served or is serving in that branch.

Edited May 12, 2017 by UNTFan23

[Aldo]

[BeatNavy]

19 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

...They referred to the injury problem caused by Army's cut blocking scheme along their offensive line.

Be factual, don't twist meanings to fit your opinion.

I like facts too.  What injuries?

[Cerebus]

4 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Wren never said the games were too tough.  That ridiculous idea was created here in this forum.  

If by "created here in this forum" you mean "an article directly quoting Wren Baker was published in the DRC and then posted on this forum by the author, the NT beat writer" then I guess you are right in a roundabout way.

Quote

"The Army series is difficult on your team," Baker said. "Every defensive coach in the country would tell you preparing for the triple-option gets you out of your regular plan. Then you have to adjust the next week and go back to what you regularly do. You also tend to rack up some injuries. We like playing Army, but we felt we could get more out of playing other teams."

 

[keith]

4 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Wren never said the games were too tough.  That ridiculous idea was created here in this forum.  He said it was tough to prepare for a team who runs an offense you will play against only once and that is so different than anything else you will run up against.  BIG difference than saying they are "tough" to play.  You may recall that we beat them at their house pretty soundly and took them to OT in the HOD Bowl.  Hardly too "tough" an opponent to play.

Since we just played them twice how tough really can it be to prepare for them?  I mean we should have it figured out by now, no?  Heck, we are probably the *most* prepared team to face Army.  We can try to spin it all we want, but it was the wrong thing to say.

Edited May 12, 2017 by keith

[Ben Gooding]

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

If by "created here in this forum" you mean "an article directly quoting Wren Baker was published in the DRC and then posted on this forum by the author, the NT beat writer" then I guess you are right in a roundabout way.

 

Ty. I didn't feel like finding the article and I'm getting tired of defending the logical and rational stance. 

[GrandGreen]

21 hours ago, Cerebus said:

RV did not start up this MGC.  It was already a fan run operation.   The founders post on this board.  RV convinced them to let him run it in house.

Actually the original mean green club was a creation of Hayden Fry.  After he left, it was allowed to die and was as pointed out resurrected as a fan based organization.  Then again taken over by the AD.

Point to ponder, does a new NT support organization need to be established run by the fans?  The current Mean Green is little more than a moniker for the fund raising arm of the athletic department.  Something independent of the AD, and free to both support and question the direction of NT athletics could be beneficial.   As far as I know the current Mean Green club is a misnomer anyway, it is not a club in the sense that it has voted on leadership or does it conduct regular meetings.     

[Ryan Munthe]

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

Some people feel supporting the military academies as a way of supporting the military in general. Having talked to fans who do come to NT games when we have an one of the academies as an opponent, almost all of them have or know someone who served or is serving in that branch.

Exactly.

We're trading a team that is an honor to have on schedule for a team that is a disgrace to have on the schedule.

Furthermore, having Army at home is the equivalent of a low level P5 at home. You really think Army won't draw more than a Kansas or Kentucky?

Edited May 12, 2017 by Ryan Munthe

[MeanGreen_MBA]

15 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Exactly.

We're trading a team that is an honor to have on schedule for a team that is a disgrace to have on the schedule.

Furthermore, having Army at home is the equivalent of a low level P5 at home. You really think Army won't draw more than a Kansas or Kentucky?

Date	Time	Opponent#	Rank#	Site	TV	Result	Attendance
September 3	12:30 PM	at Virginia Tech*		Lane Stadium • Blacksburg, VA	ACCN	L 13–36	62,234
September 10	7:00 PM	Jacksonville*		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	W 55–7	16,625
September 17	7:00 PM	at SMU*		Gerald J. Ford Stadium • Dallas, TX	ESPN3	L 14–29	22,127
September 24	7:00 PM	No. 3 Jacksonville State*		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	L 19–48	15,354
October 1	7:00 PM	Robert Morris*		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	W 41–7	11,273
October 15	7:00 PM	at Kennesaw State		Fifth Third Bank Stadium • Kennesaw, GA	ESPN3	W 36–21	8,803
October 22	3:30 PM	Monmouth		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	W 52–28	16,687
October 29	3:30 PM	Gardner–Webb		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	BSN	W 23–20 OT	16,608
November 5	2:00 PM	at Presbyterian		Bailey Memorial Stadium • Clinton, SC	ESPN3	W 16–0	3,101
November 12	3:30 PM	No. 14 Charleston Southern	No. 25	Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	L 26–48	21,712
November 17	7:00 PM	at No. 16 Coastal Carolina*		Brooks Stadium • Conway, SC	ESPNews	L 7–42	7,787
*Non-conference game. Homecoming. #Rankings from STATS FCS Poll released prior to game. All times are in Liberty had a nice season last year.  6-5 record.  Pulled 22K at SMU.  Their stadium hold a little more than 19K and avg. 15K at home.  May not be Army...but not horrible

[UNTcrazy727]

13 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Exactly.

We're trading a team that is an honor to have on schedule for a team that is a disgrace to have on the schedule.

Furthermore, having Army at home is the equivalent of a low level P5 at home. You really think Army won't draw more than a Kansas or Kentucky?

 

Beating a lower level P5 helps a G5 program's reputation and recruiting way more than defeating Army. We didn't trade Army for Liberty. We traded Army for a high-profile home game that this fanbase has been bitching for since Apogee opened. A year ago this forum was pissed that Army and SMU were our marquee home games. Now that we've axed a home game with Army for something better everyone is pissed. Unbelievable. I don't envy Wren's job right now.  

I think I'm done with this topic until all the news is released. The ignorance is too much. 

[UNTFan23]

2 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Beating a lower level P5 helps a G5 program's reputation and recruiting way more than defeating Army. We didn't trade Army for Liberty. We traded Army for a high-profile home game that this fanbase has been bitching for since Apogee opened. A year ago this forum was pissed that Army and SMU were our marquee home games. Now that we've axed a home game with Army for something better everyone is pissed. Unbelievable. I don't envy Wren's job right now.  

I think I'm done with this topic until all the news is released. The ignorance is too much. 

[GrandGreen]

42 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Date	Time	Opponent#	Rank#	Site	TV	Result	Attendance
September 3	12:30 PM	at Virginia Tech*		Lane Stadium • Blacksburg, VA	ACCN	L 13–36	62,234
September 10	7:00 PM	Jacksonville*		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	W 55–7	16,625
September 17	7:00 PM	at SMU*		Gerald J. Ford Stadium • Dallas, TX	ESPN3	L 14–29	22,127
September 24	7:00 PM	No. 3 Jacksonville State*		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	L 19–48	15,354
October 1	7:00 PM	Robert Morris*		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	W 41–7	11,273
October 15	7:00 PM	at Kennesaw State		Fifth Third Bank Stadium • Kennesaw, GA	ESPN3	W 36–21	8,803
October 22	3:30 PM	Monmouth		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	W 52–28	16,687
October 29	3:30 PM	Gardner–Webb		Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	BSN	W 23–20 OT	16,608
November 5	2:00 PM	at Presbyterian		Bailey Memorial Stadium • Clinton, SC	ESPN3	W 16–0	3,101
November 12	3:30 PM	No. 14 Charleston Southern	No. 25	Williams Stadium • Lynchburg, VA	ESPN3	L 26–48	21,712
November 17	7:00 PM	at No. 16 Coastal Carolina*		Brooks Stadium • Conway, SC	ESPNews	L 7–42	7,787
*Non-conference game. Homecoming. #Rankings from STATS FCS Poll released prior to game. All times are in Liberty had a nice season last year.  6-5 record.  Pulled 22K at SMU.  Their stadium hold a little more than 19K and avg. 15K at home.  May not be Army...but not horrible

If the SMU official attendance was 22,127, you know that there may have been 5,000 actual butts in the seats.   So much for all those Liberty fans that might be attending the NT game.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by GrandGreen

[Ryan Munthe]

To be clear, I have never bitched about SMU and Army as our home games. Just wanted to set that straight. I loved it.

[GrandGreen]

8 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Beating a lower level P5 helps a G5 program's reputation and recruiting way more than defeating Army. We didn't trade Army for Liberty. We traded Army for a high-profile home game that this fanbase has been bitching for since Apogee opened. A year ago this forum was pissed that Army and SMU were our marquee home games. Now that we've axed a home game with Army for something better everyone is pissed. Unbelievable. I don't envy Wren's job right now.  

I think I'm done with this topic until all the news is released. The ignorance is too much. 

Ignorance! Seems to me that goes both ways, apparently at this point no other further game schedules have been released or apparently even contracted.    So if it is premature to question the decision to drop Army and schedule Liberty, than it is just as premature to believe that a high profile series has been lined up.   

Scheduling is not as easy as all us arm chair AD's think.  RV made some big blunders, but he too had explanations.  This is all speculation, but I think Baker had read all the complaints about NT scheduling and was given the task of better scheduling.   Being that NT was completely scheduled for years, he had to make some room on the schedule.  So he cancelled a couple of Army games and undoubtedly will make more unannounced changes to the current schedule to facilitate more maneuvering.  Frankly it is hard to envision how cancelling two Army games and adding two with Liberty fits inasmuch as nothing is changed at this point other than replacing an excellent opponent with a start up program.  

I think many of us forget Baker is not a seasoned AD, and he has never scheduled anything at this level.  I think he has been surprised by the reaction that he has gotten and probably wishes he never heard of Liberty.   His excuses about Army being a less desired opponent because of the offense they play are frankly lame particularly after playing them three times in two years.  Again, he is learning on the job.  

[UNTFan23]

3 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I think many of us forget Baker is not a seasoned AD, and he has never scheduled anything at this level.  I think he has been surprised by the reaction that he has gotten and probably wishes he never heard of Liberty.   His excuses about Army being a less desired opponent because of the offense they play are frankly lame particularly after playing them three times in two years.  Again, he is learning on the job.  

It's not the fans that feel this way but the coaching staff.

It's tough keeping everyone happy. #FirstWorldProblems

[GrandGreen]

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

It's not the fans that feel this way but the coaching staff.

It's tough keeping everyone happy. #FirstWorldProblems

Really, the coaching staff are complaining about the best two games they played last season.  Actually, the quote was about the generic coaching staff not the NT staff or the fans. 

"The Army series is difficult on your team," Baker said. "Every defensive coach in the country would tell you preparing for the triple-option gets you out of your regular plan. Then you have to adjust the next week and go back to what you regularly do. You also tend to rack up some injuries. We like playing Army, but we felt we could get more out of playing other teams."

[DentonLurker]

I think Baker's point here is that it's hard to shift gears mid-season to play a team like Army. No one is scared to play Army, but when you look at OOC games you are trying to put your team in position to do well in conference play. Playing against the triple option does not prepare you for anything you will see the rest of the year.

[Ben Gooding]

I usually hear head coaches say the same things while having triple option teams on the schedule, then go out and win by 50. It's a bunch of bull mixed with shit. 

Nevertheless, just get your scheduling hemmed up and release the games. 

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Actually the original mean green club was a creation of Hayden Fry.  

Yes, that is why I said this version.  Also I don't think this version of the MGC was actually called the MGC until it was taken over by the AD.  Unless my memory is failing, it was actually called the Mean Green Foundation.

[UNTLifer]

2 hours ago, BeatNavy said:

I like facts too.  What injuries?

I referred to the quote from the article.  Do I have access to the injuries Baker was referencing?  Nope, but cut blocking is typically frown upon and is illegal in some leagues.  Here is an interesting article from the Houston Chronicle with this even more interesting quote:

"If you're not sure just how dangerous the block is, consider that the Texans and other teams who employ a high percentage of cut blocks do not allow their linemen to cut block in practice.

Broken ankles and legs and torn knee ligaments suffered on cut blocks that didn't draw penalties or fines are not uncommon, making the cut block perhaps the dirtiest legal play in what is arguably the most violent team sport."

http://www.chron.com/sports/solomon/article/Solomon-Cut-blocking-is-legal-but-is-it-ethical-2254311.php