Would This Be Acceptable Re: Mizzou?

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 15, 2017

RV scheduled an away game at Mizzou for 2021. Would it be acceptable for us to visit them once more if they would give us a home game in return for what would then be the two roadies to Columbia?

My vote is, yes, for the record. I think 2 for 1s with Big 12s or SECs are acceptable.

Edited May 15, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

MeanGreenTexan · May 15, 2017

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

RV scheduled an away game at Mizzou for 2021. Would it be acceptable for us to visit them once more if they would give us a home game in return for what would then be the two roadies to Columbia?

My vote is, yes, for the record. I think 2 for 1s with Big 12s or SECs are acceptable.

The 2021 game is going to get UNT over $1million.

If we move it to a 2-for-1, and keep the $1million for travelling there, sure! Then, we have a paycheck game and a home-home.
If we move it to a 2-for-1, and lose the $1million, absolutely not unless you're going to donate $1million to make up the difference.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 15, 2017

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The 2021 game is going to get UNT over $1million.

If we move it to a 2-for-1, and keep the $1million for travelling there, sure! Then, we have a paycheck game and a home-home.
If we move it to a 2-for-1, and lose the $1million, absolutely not unless you're going to donate $1 million to make up the difference.

No, I mean keep the RV scheduled as a pay game, then go one and one for the rest of the series.

MeanGreenTexan · May 15, 2017

Just now, MeanGreenMailbox said:

No, I mean keep the RV scheduled as a pay game, then go one and one for the rest of the series.

Heck yeah! Let's do that. Now, trying to convince Mizzou to do it... Wren will have his work cut out for him.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · May 15, 2017

Great idea, let's get curb stomped in front of our home crowd. Give me the 1 win closer to being eligible for a bowl game. Give me the 1 more win that could give us more practice time for the youngins.

untjim1995 · May 15, 2017

22 minutes ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

Great idea, let's get curb stomped in front of our home crowd. Give me the 1 win closer to being eligible for a bowl game. Give me the 1 more win that could give us more practice time for the youngins.

Is it more fun to get curb stomped by Portland State or to play Butt Cookman with zero new fans or media interest?

GrandGreen · May 15, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

RV scheduled an away game at Mizzou for 2021. Would it be acceptable for us to visit them once more if they would give us a home game in return for what would then be the two roadies to Columbia?

My vote is, yes, for the record. I think 2 for 1s with Big 12s or SECs are acceptable.

Adding an one to one series to an already scheduled guaranteed game does not equal a 2-1 series. Unless the already scheduled game is renegotiated as part of a 2-1 series. It would however create cover for Missouri who could claim it is a 2 to 1 series. While NT's AD could claim an one and one with Mo.

Technically, if NT had a contract with Missouri for an away game at $1m. Then the contract was changed to say two games at Missouri with $500k guarantees and one at NT with NT paying $500; that is definitely a 2 to 1 series and a poor financial deal for NT. If the original scheduled game stays as is and a home and away series is added with no or equal guarantees than it is not a 2 for 1 and probably a good deal for NT.

So in truth, no one can tell if more games with Missouri would be either good or bad until the contracts could be reviewed.

I am firmly against 2 away 1 home series in principle because of the difficulty in offsetting the away game with a satisfactory home opponent or the necessity of a less than balanced home schedule. There are some teams that it maybe worth it, but not Missouri.

Edited May 15, 2017 by GrandGreen

Ben Gooding · May 16, 2017

It's not a mega superpower team, but it'd be a good home n home for us. If you're asking if it just negates the previous series made, no.

Rudy · May 16, 2017

No, I don't approve of their antics a couple of years ago. I don't want NT associated with them or giving them legitimacy. Isn't that how it goes now, we don't want to NT to play colleges we disagree with?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Rudy

Arkstfan · May 16, 2017

10 minutes ago, Rudy said:

No, I don't approve of their antics a couple of years ago. I don't want NT associated with them or giving them legitimacy. Isn't that how it goes now, we don't want to NT to play colleges we disagree with?

It wasn't "their" antics. Mizzou got hosed. Protestors stirred up a stink and once the football team sided with the protestors Mizzou had NO good choices, none at all. Whatever they did was going to make people angry and turned off. Their choices were get kicked in the nads or catch a baseball with their nads, neither one is a choice you chose willingly.

4 hours ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

Great idea, let's get curb stomped in front of our home crowd. Give me the 1 win closer to being eligible for a bowl game. Give me the 1 more win that could give us more practice time for the youngins.

Mizzou ain't that good and it doesn't look like they are on a good trajectory either.

Aquila_Viridis · May 16, 2017

Rudy, it is not 'any college we disagree with'. Have we ever singled out any other school like this before? And it is not an issue about Christian faith. It is an issue about the signals that that institution's leadership is giving off about what they will do to advance.

I do not see value playing Missouri. I expect they recruit a consistently higher caliber of player at all positions. Those are not teams we should play, even for a million dollars. We have to build a tradition of winning.

Rudy · May 16, 2017

But only against schools who's "values" match our own?

Aquila_Viridis · May 16, 2017

If their values are advancing through excellence, integrity and transparency, then right that is a match. If their values are getting the best athlete even though criminal and then circling the wagons, then no that is not a match.

KRAM1 · May 16, 2017

You guys are funny talking about values in reference to scheduling a football game. Most here would be absolutely over the moon gag a about a home game with Baylor, yet bemoan a game with Liberty over "that school's values". Baylor...biggest thug school in the country=AOK and look the other way. Oh, Liberty...not so much! Just a little on the hypocritical side wouldn't you think? And can you just see that Liberty fan board all up in arms over playing UNT. A place where athletes run prostitution rings!

You guys talking .... Too funny.

MeanGreenTexan · May 16, 2017

14 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Adding an one to one series to an already scheduled guaranteed game does not equal a 2-1 series. Unless the already scheduled game is renegotiated as part of a 2-1 series. It would however create cover for Missouri who could claim it is a 2 to 1 series. While NT's AD could claim an one and one with Mo.

Technically, if NT had a contract with Missouri for an away game at $1m. Then the contract was changed to say two games at Missouri with $500k guarantees and one at NT with NT paying $500; that is definitely a 2 to 1 series and a poor financial deal for NT. If the original scheduled game stays as is and a home and away series is added with no or equal guarantees than it is not a 2 for 1 and probably a good deal for NT.

So in truth, no one can tell if more games with Missouri would be either good or bad until the contracts could be reviewed.

I am firmly against 2 away 1 home series in principle because of the difficulty in offsetting the away game with a satisfactory home opponent or the necessity of a less than balanced home schedule. There are some teams that it maybe worth it, but not Missouri.

Grand,

He's saying keep the existing paycheck game in 2021 for $1million, then set up a separate home/home with Mizzou. This is not what I would call a 2-for-1, which would be playing 2 games in Columbia for free in exchange for 1 game at Apogee for free.

The proposed scenario would be a great opportunity for us. But I highly-doubt Mizzou would go for it.

Arkstfan · May 16, 2017

7 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

You guys are funny talking about values in reference to scheduling a football game. Most here would be absolutely over the moon gag a about a home game with Baylor, yet bemoan a game with Liberty over "that school's values". Baylor...biggest thug school in the country=AOK and look the other way. Oh, Liberty...not so much! Just a little on the hypocritical side wouldn't you think? And can you just see that Liberty fan board all up in arms over playing UNT. A place where athletes run prostitution rings!

You guys talking .... Too funny.

Theory of relativity.

Between Baylor and Liberty who has more alums nearby?

Which is part of a mega TV contract?

Which has the greater brand awareness.

When Liberty was trying to get in the Sun Belt they played the "Well you'd take Baylor card" and they pretty quickly were reminded they don't bring the name recognition or TV value of Baylor.

DentonLurker · May 16, 2017

I'm out on all 2 for 1's.

VideoEagle · May 16, 2017

Two and ones require us to buy a one and done home game from someone. That's fine except two for ones don't generally give us the pay out to afford a buy out game.

Arkstfan · May 16, 2017

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

I'm out on all 2 for 1's.

Memphis wanted to do a 2 for 1 with us and they were told that wasn't a problem. We'd come to Memphis for $1.5 million for the non-returned game since our travel would be less. We got a 2 for 2 instead.

Some schools will do a 2 for 1 with a low guarantee for the non-returned game but that makes no sense to me. Rare is the school worth a cheap guarantee for a non-returned game in a 2 for 1. Notre Dame. Texas. Bama. top 5-10 programs historically.

Ben Gooding · May 16, 2017

9 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

You guys are funny talking about values in reference to scheduling a football game. Most here would be absolutely over the moon gag a about a home game with Baylor, yet bemoan a game with Liberty over "that school's values". Baylor...biggest thug school in the country=AOK and look the other way. Oh, Liberty...not so much! Just a little on the hypocritical side wouldn't you think? And can you just see that Liberty fan board all up in arms over playing UNT. A place where athletes run prostitution rings!

You guys talking .... Too funny.

I am not in the club of not liking the idea of playing Liberty because of their values. Some might be in that camp, I am not. You set up home and home games with peers, in theory. Currently, Liberty is a FCS program. They will still be a transitional FCS team when we go to their house to play them. This game does nothing for us to push our brand and try to change the tidal wave called apathy that is tied to our brand or our perception. I mean, that's what we're trying to do and if not, it should be what we're trying to do. This series goes 100% against that. It's a bad look and it's a lose/lose series for UNT. While UNT had quite the leverage while scheduling this series, we pull out of the negotiations with nothing to show for it. It doesn't even really alleviate travel costs as Lynchburg is 1200 miles away and West Point is 1600 miles away. Still halfway across the country. I don't care if they are snaking handling, voodoo witchcraft artists. To me, that's not what this is about.

Cerebus · May 16, 2017

10 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Most here would be absolutely over the moon gag a about a home game with Baylor, yet bemoan a game with Liberty over "that school's values". Baylor...biggest thug school in the country=AOK and look the other way. Oh, Liberty...not so much!

Except, of course, no one has stated in any of the Liberty threads that they would rather play Baylor. It's pretty easy to win arguments against points that no one is making.

Ben Gooding · May 16, 2017

And I am still waiting on an announcement of whatever series is pending. And maybe more so, how manipulating the schedule with the Liberty played into it.

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Except, of course, no one has stated in any of the Liberty threads that they would rather play Baylor. It's pretty easy to win arguments against points that no one is making.

Yeah, not sure how Baylor plays into any of this. As far as Baylor goes go though...Isn't Art Briles gone? And the administrators associated with? The enabling pieces of their recent drama?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Ben Gooding

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 16, 2017

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Grand,

He's saying keep the existing paycheck game in 2021 for $1million, then set up a separate home/home with Mizzou. This is not what I would call a 2-for-1, which would be playing 2 games in Columbia for free in exchange for 1 game at Apogee for free.

The proposed scenario would be a great opportunity for us. But I highly-doubt Mizzou would go for it.

Correct. What I'm saying is, approach Mizzou with this:
(1) We already have a contract in place to visit you all in 2021, so...
(2) How about if we give you another visit in exchange for a home game for us?

It's a plausible request given that their current AD has given the following G5 schools a shot at Mizzou at home:
-Connecticut
-Wyoming
-Middle Tennessee
-Memphis
-Miami (OH)

So, to me it just comes down to leveraging the one game already contracted into another contract, but this time a home and home. If they will go to the schools listed above, they'll surely come to UNT.

Can't imagine what kind of recruiting or exposure advantage they thought they'd get by agreeing to go to Wyoming, for example. At least with us, in theory, you have the ability to sell showcasing your program in front of DFW area recruits.

39 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I am not in the club of not liking the idea of playing Liberty because of their values. Some might be in that camp, I am not. You set up home and home games with peers, in theory. Currently, Liberty is a FCS program. They will still be a transitional FCS team when we go to their house to play them. This game does nothing for us to push our brand and try to change the tidal wave called apathy that is tied to our brand or our perception. I mean, that's what we're trying to do and if not, it should be what we're trying to do. This series goes 100% against that. It's a bad look and it's a lose/lose series for UNT. While UNT had quite the leverage while scheduling this series, we pull out of the negotiations with nothing to show for it. It doesn't even really alleviate travel costs as Lynchburg is 1200 miles away and West Point is 1600 miles away. Still halfway across the country. I don't care if they are snaking handling, voodoo witchcraft artists. To me, that's not what this is about.

Bingo.

Besides, UNT is and big and eclectic enough that I'd defy anyone to pinpoint one certain set of "values" to it. I'd wager you had your fair share of Trump or Johnson voter in the Business School while Hillary and Stein probably had a good following from the Arts/Music crowd. That's the beauty of UNT - can't be pegged one way or the other.

Wren Baker simply got jobbed by a much more experienced Ian McCaw with the Liberty series.

Aquila_Viridis · May 17, 2017

18 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

You guys are funny talking about values in reference to scheduling a football game. Most here would be absolutely over the moon gag a about a home game with Baylor, yet bemoan a game with Liberty over "that school's values". Baylor...biggest thug school in the country=AOK and look the other way. Oh, Liberty...not so much! Just a little on the hypocritical side wouldn't you think? And can you just see that Liberty fan board all up in arms over playing UNT. A place where athletes run prostitution rings!

You guys talking .... Too funny.

Nobody said anything about Baylor coming to NT. But since you effectively asked the question, I do not want them in Denton. And that's despite the fact it is an entirely different situation. If anything, Baylor would be helping to legitimize us. But no thanks. We had plenty of reasons to detest them the last time they came up, but since then they went over the edge.