DRC: Report -- ODU to receive $1.32 million to play Liberty

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, VideoEagle said:

If you read the original article in the Virginia Pilot, it reads that both ODU and Liberty fans are excited about this game. The teams have played each other before with Liberty fans traveling well to ODU. The ODU AD hopes Liberty will be on the ODU schedule beyond 2018. It also notes this is a single game, not a home and home. Single games always come with a guarantee while home and home only rarely do. ODU also wants to be on Liberty Flames Sports Network with goes to "potentially 80 million homes." ( Don't pretend to know what "potentially 80 million" actually means, but the ODU AD is excited about it.)

It's NOT that ODU has more prestige than NT, it's a combination of in state school plus no return game plus home opener all combinig to make it worth more to Liberty to get ODU than us. 

It also appears Liberty now has four FBS home games scheduled for 2018: ODU, NT, Troy and NMSU. As for Liberty not being FBS today, well that ship sailed when the NCAA granted them permission to move up. In the eyes of the NCAA and all football playing colleges in the country, Liberty is FBS starting next year. Some fans might not like it, but that doesn't change the fact they are FBS. 

They aren't FBS until they fulfill their obligations to become FBS.

And I'm sure the ODU AD is excited about it. He's playing 1 game for almost 1.5 million dollars. 

So, Liberty is getting ready to start fulfilling their obligation with Troy (practical start up), NMSU (recently kicked out of their own conference), ODU (practical start up), and UNT (Over a 100 year old history of college football). I get that ODU is in-state. I brought it up. To me, it makes less sense for them to walk away with a fat check and US with nada. And I get we are doing a home and home, and it makes it that much worse. We should not be trying to level out home and home's with transitioning programs. It's just another thing added to the long list of knocks on or against this program and University. There is no justification for any of this, regardless of how we try to word it. I am just now curious to see what is coming next. How does this play into a series we are in negotiations with. For what we pulled off the schedule paired with what we have added, it must be a knock your sock off series. I just hope it actually is legitimate and it's not in 2040. If it's a G5 program that we're in super secret negotiations with then this was all for nothing and it will make this whole deal look like a colossal failure. 

[UNTFan23]

4 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

They aren't FBS until they fulfill their obligations to become FBS.

An NT win against Liberty in 2018 would count towards bowl eligibility.

Also, Troy has been an FBS member since 2001. They've field football since 1909. Far from a start up in my eyes.

Edited May 16, 2017 by UNTFan23

[Ben Gooding]

2 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

An NT win against Liberty would count towards bowl eligibility.

Also, Troy has been an FBS member since 2001. They've field football since 1909. Far from a start up in my eyes.

[golfingomez]

wow.... Sturm must really want to play Old Dom...

[TreeFiddy]

I have no inside info, but I think those that believe that WB is lining up some big name P5 to come to Apogee are going to be disappointed.  I believe it is much more likely that WB is going to get Houston (most likely imo) , Boise, Cincy, Colo St,  BYU, or someone of that ilk as the 'big' name.  I just don't see a top 20-25 P5 agreeing to visit Apogee anytime soon (JerryWorld maybe, Apogee no).  

Hopefully, WB can land a 2nd or 3rd tier P5 in the near future like he did with TTech, but it will be more of a pleasant surprise rather than an expectation for me.

[Ben Gooding]

17 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

I have no inside info, but I think those that believe that WB is lining up some big name P5 to come to Apogee are going to be disappointed.  I believe it is much more likely that WB is going to get Houston (most likely imo) , Boise, Cincy, Colo St,  BYU, or someone of that ilk as the 'big' name.  I just don't see a top 20-25 P5 agreeing to visit Apogee anytime soon (JerryWorld maybe, Apogee no).  

Hopefully, WB can land a 2nd or 3rd tier P5 in the near future like he did with TTech, but it will be more of a pleasant surprise rather than an expectation for me.

I have the same feeling. And if so, it would be a disappointment. I would've much rather kept Army in place to avoid a peer based relationship with Liberty. Ridding Army to add Liberty to free up a date with any of the programs you listed does nothing except hurt the program. For this to come full circle and not make our athletic department look like they're dog paddling is to schedule a straight up 1n1 with a middle of the road or higher brand name P5 program such as Okie St, Ole Miss, etc. But I doubt that is the case, because while creating his reasoning seemingly on the spot for dropping two games from the Army series WB stated, "No one really wants to play North Texas." Why would he state that if he was measuring up a big series in the near future? On the same token, why take away two games from a legitimate opponent and say that quote during the announcement? If that is in fact the case, the logical thing to do would be to keep Army on the schedule. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Ben Gooding

[outoftown]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Wren knows the low hanging fruit for UNT is selling out Apogee for the 1st time.  The closest we have come to doing that was the opener against Houston.

Really I try, but I cannot see how this deal has done anything to increase the probabilty for selling out a game at Apogee that the army series would not have done.

[UNTFan23]

18 minutes ago, outoftown said:

Really I try, but I cannot see how this deal has done anything to increase the probabilty for selling out a game at Apogee that the army series would not have done.

Last time we played Army (11-21-2009) in Denton, we had 23,647 people allegedly in attendance of the game. I doubt we'll have the momentum to get a sell out against Army this year unless we're in the middle of an epic season. I'd expect a similar number between 20k and 25k for the late season out of conference game.

[outoftown]

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

Last time we played Army (11-21-2009) in Denton, we had 23,647 people allegedly in attendance of the game. I doubt we'll have the momentum to get a sell out against Army this year unless we're in the middle of an epic season. I'd expect a similar number between 20k and 25k for the late season out of conference game.

Sure. But its not I can imagine that Liberty will sell more tickets. Nor is Liberty a guaranteed win.

[UNTFan23]

Just now, outoftown said:

Sure. But its not I can imagine that Liberty will sell more tickets. Nor is Liberty a guaranteed win.

There is a ton of football to be played between now and then for both programs.

[Ben Gooding]

3 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Last time we played Army (11-21-2009) in Denton, we had 23,647 people allegedly in attendance of the game. I doubt we'll have the momentum to get a sell out against Army this year unless we're in the middle of an epic season. I'd expect a similar number between 20k and 25k for the late season out of conference game.

I think good or bad season, Army draws 20K+. For a UNT home game to draw that number at a close to the end of season game would be monumental for our program. If you actually go to an end of season game during one of our typical bad seasons, you will see 2-4K in attendance. In a good season, you would see 25K+. Either way, good or bad season, that's one less game of very probable good attendance that we are cutting off the schedule for a game that will draw undoubtedly less than 10K in a bad season and 14-17K in a good season. Yay us! 

[UNTFan23]

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

I think good or bad season, Army draws 20K+. For a UNT home game to draw that number at a close to the end of season game would be monumental for our program. If you actually go to an end of season game during one of our typical bad seasons, you will see 2-4K in attendance. In a good season, you would see 25K+. Either way, good or bad season, that's one less game of very probable good attendance that we are cutting off the schedule for a game that will draw undoubtedly less than 10K in a bad season and 14-17K in a good season. Yay us! 

I think what you have brought up is an accurate yet poor reflection of the NT fan base. It's a similar situation with SMU and their fans. Both programs need "name" or "well known" opponents to bring out their fans.

[untjim1995]

5 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

I think what you have brought up is an accurate yet poor reflection of the NT fan base. It's a similar situation with SMU and their fans. Both programs need "name" or "well known" opponents to bring out their fans.

Every G5 program needs this, save for a about a special half dozen or so...

If we replaced Army to get Liberty, this is a colossal, RV-esque failure. If it brings in another AAC team, spare non-regional P5 team (i.e. Wake Forest or Vandy) or MWC team not in Texas, its still not a great deal because Army would bring in more people. If it brings in Texas State, its a solid push. If its Houston, its a good deal. If its a regional P5 from the SEC or Big XII (i.e. Mizzou, Okie State, Tech, KU, etc...) its a great deal.

For all G5s its all about who will get people to come spend several hours and several dollars to come watch you play. Liberty or any other FCS spare doesn't do that. SMU and Army do.

[Ben Gooding]

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

I think what you have brought up is an accurate yet poor reflection of the NT fan base. It's a similar situation with SMU and their fans. Both programs need "name" or "well known" opponents to bring out their fans.

To bring out some fans, yes. The one's that appreciate and respect a winner. People want to be associated with a winner. But Army will draw people that would otherwise not ever come to a game and they will draw those same people regardless of if we are winning or not. Liberty will not. If we have a good opponent, people come to watch. That's not exclusive to SMU and UNT. That's Alabama, UT, ATM, UF, etc. If we have a good opponent and we are winning, then even more people will come out to watch. With this Liberty game, it doesn't matter. No one wants to come watch this game. If we are in a bad season, see vs WKU attendance in 2015 to get an idea of what this Liberty will do for us. Announced attendance for that game was 10K. I was there. Rest assured there weren't 5K in that stadium that night. And if we are in a good season going into vs Liberty expect a 15K attendance. Which in comparison to what we would draw vs Army during a good season is peanuts. Example: Our home finale is vs Army this year...I think we could already be at 6 wins going into that game. If so, expect 25K+. 

[UNTFan23]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

To bring out some fans, yes. The one's that appreciate and respect a winner. People want to be associated with a winner. But Army will draw people that would otherwise not ever come to a game and they will draw those same people regardless of if we are winning or not. Liberty will not. If we have a good opponent, people come to watch. That's not exclusive to SMU and UNT. That's Alabama, UT, ATM, UF, etc. If we have a good opponent and we are winning, then even more people will come out to watch. With this Liberty game, it doesn't matter. No one wants to come watch this game. If we are in a bad season, see vs WKU attendance in 2015 to get an idea of what this Liberty will do for us. Announced attendance for that game was 10K. I was there. Rest assured there weren't 5K in that stadium that night. And if we are in a good season going into vs Liberty expect a 15K attendance. Which in comparison to what we would draw vs Army during a good season is peanuts. Example: Our home finale is vs Army this year...I think we could already be at 6 wins going into that game. If so, expect 25K+. 

That WKU game was after perhaps the worst game in the program's history and after the head coach was fired. Hard to compare that to what you feel attendance might be like for a game that is to be played in 2021.

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

I'm here to talk about the subject of the thread but you guys have awful soft feelings to get them so hurt. Maybe instead of RV being your problem, need to be a tougher fan base.

Not really.  I just find it odd that a fan of another school is on our site discussing our scheduling.  I have valued your input and knowledge for years, but it just strikes me as odd.  I don't get bored and head to A-State's, or any other schools for that matter, fan board to dig around.  I don't come over there criticizing your school, and I somehow believe that it wouldn't be taken well having a North Texas fan being critical of Arkansas State's AD.

[Aldo]

3 hours ago, Green P1 said:

its cute when you wanna get over your old boyfriend so much that you force yourself to love everything your new boyfriend does... Even when it really sucks. 

[Ben Gooding]

7 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

That WKU game was after perhaps the worst game in the program's history and after the head coach was fired. Hard to compare that to what you feel attendance might be like for a game that is to be played in 2021.

Though that is true, I still would expect our home game vs Liberty to look similar if we're in the midst of a bad year. 

[Arkstfan]

6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Not really.  I just find it odd that a fan of another school is on our site discussing our scheduling.  I have valued your input and knowledge for years, but it just strikes me as odd.  I don't get bored and head to A-State's, or any other schools for that matter, fan board to dig around.  I don't come over there criticizing your school, and I somehow believe that it wouldn't be taken well having a North Texas fan being critical of Arkansas State's AD.

Harry and I are friends and I've hung out here for years among quite a few other boards I visit. I am a college sports fan and find it very useful to visit a select group of sites fairly regularly throughout the G5, though generally only when the sports world in general is slow. I suggest you review the thread. I was talking on topic and sure as hell wasn't being critical until someone without being provoked went off topic to be an ass.

10 hours ago, Harry said:

I think you are dead on.  I read that they intend to add 6000 seats to their 21,500 capacity stadium.  Old Dominion will help them fill it up and in their mind give them a winnable game in front of the home crowd.  They hired Turner Gill and Ian McCaw the Baylor AD.  They have a clear plan and tons of money.  I would not be shocked to see them join C-USA at some point in the future as they have the type of budget and resources you can't ignore. 

I'm not as convinced unless they have some serious success. So far they've not be stellar at getting results for what they spend. Until they are too successful to ignore the presidents aren't going to be big fans because they don't fit anyone's image of what a peer school is, their honor code is problematic for dealing with faculty as is their teaching of young earth. Worse, you can just go ahead and assume that they are going to bust the curve on salaries whenever they have an opening for coaches. Athletics are expensive enough without someone coming in and quickly going to the top of the conference in facility and salary expenses.

[TheWestie]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

I think you are dead on.  I read that they intend to add 6000 seats to their 21,500 capacity stadium.  Old Dominion will help them fill it up and in their mind give them a winnable game in front of the home crowd.  They hired Turner Gill and Ian McCaw the Baylor AD.  They have a clear plan and tons of money.  I would not be shocked to see them join C-USA at some point in the future as they have the type of budget and resources you can't ignore. 

I would. 

Their academic credibility (or lack thereof) is gonna come around to bite them in the ass the more they try to climb the ladder.

[Arkstfan]

8 hours ago, TheWestie said:

I would. 

Their academic credibility (or lack thereof) is gonna come around to bite them in the ass the more they try to climb the ladder.

If I am a university president I concede that the Faculty Senate and to a lesser degree the SGA are going be barking at me most of the time but why would I give them ammo to question why the university is affiliating with a university that teaches young earth and has a code of conduct that is cause for protests by student and faculty?

Mizzou is shutting down dorms in the wake of dropped enrollment caused by protests that left them with no viable response. Why risk it?

On paper BYU was the superior choice to Utah. Long well established history of national success across multiple sports and a loyal viewership greatly exceeding Utah's. Pac-12 presidents weren't going to poke the bears of Faculty and Students by affiliating with BYU.

[Cerebus]

10 hours ago, TheWestie said:

I would. 

Their academic credibility (or lack thereof) is gonna come around to bite them in the ass the more they try to climb the ladder.

I would also be stunned.  I am also pretty confident Rice would rather play FCS.  

[VideoEagle]

Did the NCAA drop the "you have to be admitted to a FBS conference to move up" rule? How is Liberty moving up without a conference affiliation on place? 

[UNTLifer]

14 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Harry and I are friends and I've hung out here for years among quite a few other boards I visit. I am a college sports fan and find it very useful to visit a select group of sites fairly regularly throughout the G5, though generally only when the sports world in general is slow. I suggest you review the thread. I was talking on topic and sure as hell wasn't being critical until someone without being provoked went off topic to be an ass.

 

I understand that and have always appreciated your insight in to college athletics.  The thing that struck me as odd was that after what appeared to be defending our scheduling of Liberty, you responded to Cerbus' post by stating it appeared our AD got rooked.  Having family members that have worked in administration and been placed in a position where they worked to clean up a mess left by previous groups, I responded by defending our AD from a fan of another school.  I liken it to a neighbor walking in to my yard to point out what they don't like.  You better make sure your yard is perfect.  Either way, my apologies for taking the wrong tone.

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, VideoEagle said:

Did the NCAA drop the "you have to be admitted to a FBS conference to move up" rule? How is Liberty moving up without a conference affiliation on place? 

Yes, they had to get an exemption, and that exemption process is why the home FBS games are so important to them.  If they don't meet the numbers the NCAA set, the exemption is nullified.