Now it's USM's AD

Arkstfan · May 10, 2017

Says he is interested in USM being in a more regional league.

http://www.sunherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/patrick-magee/article148897724.html

NorthTexan95 · May 10, 2017

But which region? Among CUSA teams they are in the middle of the eastern schools and western schools. I'd assume they'd rather go east than west.

Arkstfan · May 10, 2017

7 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

But which region? Among CUSA teams they are in the middle of the eastern schools and western schools. I'd assume they'd rather go east than west.

The history of these sorts of things says no one has the clout to get everyone on the same page. No one is especially interested in an "equal outcome". Folks have their own agendas and they want to end the day believing they "won".

That's why I'm a skeptic of the idea that there will be a happy rainbow and unicorn meeting where things divvy up.

History says someone with influence is either a) pissed about how things are or b) has figured away to make a few more bucks and that person wins the day you end up with one thing that makes a lot of sense and one thing that makes no sense.

Remember when MWC formed it was like someone used a shotgun to blast a hole in the middle of the WAC map.

I think the unicorn and rainbow opportunity has already come and gone. Just before CUSA got mega-raided UAB was wavering and their AD endorsed moving to the Sun Belt because he felt they needed to slash expenses to get their stadium approved and he believed the stadium was more important to their future than their conference membership.

The president at the time rejected it.

That conversation happens 8 months later and UAB moves when CUSA is already down to 8? I think we see something pretty regional emerge to replace Sun Belt and CUSA. I don't think whatever emerges looks much like the current deal. Maybe the last gasp was Bankowsky trying to go 16 that was derailed by the eastern schools. Several people have told me he wanted to add AState and ULL to get UAB into the east to cut their expenses because he knew trouble was brewing.

If USM wants to make a change and they lead the charge I think you could see a hole form in the middle of the Sun Belt and CUSA maps

Ben Gooding · May 10, 2017

Let the hole form. Something needs to catch some momentum. The current setup is not sustainable and as the saying goes, the early bird gets the worm. I think the couple of schools that opt to band together and cut out will be the one's to prosper the quickest and most. I just hope UNT is one of them. The conference money is no longer there because the product sucks and no one cares to watch it. If we start playing strict regional games, TV ratings will increase and better believe attendance will jump as well. All I can really say is that I hope the offenses aren't very hard. We might end up with an 8 game conference slate that is exclusively Liberty.

Arkstfan · May 11, 2017

4 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Let the hole form. Something needs to catch some momentum. The current setup is not sustainable and as the saying goes, the early bird gets the worm. I think the couple of schools that opt to band together and cut out will be the one's to prosper the quickest and most. I just hope UNT is one of them. The conference money is no longer there because the product sucks and no one cares to watch it. If we start playing strict regional games, TV ratings will increase and better believe attendance will jump as well. All I can really say is that I hope the offenses aren't very hard. We might end up with an 8 game conference slate that is exclusively Liberty.

Shockwave put Idaho out of FBS football. I would think ULM and FIU are in tight spots if they end up on the wrong side of a shockwave. UAB probably can't bear much financial stress under the no new school money mandate.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Arkstfan

untjim1995 · May 11, 2017

This whole realignment between the SBCUSA schools has to happen. The MAC has a huge regional advantage for rivalries and coverage from media because it's tighter. The old SWC was the same way. It fell apart because the bigger schools wanted national coverage which the Texas-centric markets couldn't provide. But a SWC 2.0 would do really well today for a regionalized league for schools like ours.

It would help us so much from a cost standpoint to travel no further than El Paso to the West, Jonesboro/ Hattiesburg to the East, and Houston/Lafayette to the South. UTEP, UTSA, Texas State, Rice, UNT, Arkansas state, La tech, ULL, and USM would seriously be the best conference setup we've had in 50+ years.

GrandGreen · May 11, 2017

The funny thing about USM is that they are currently close to the center of CUSA. USM would quickly forget about a more regional alignment if they could get that AAC invitation.

Their real objective is to lure Rice, Memphis, Tulane, SMU, Tulsa and Houston into starting another conference than adding one or three teams. The AD seems to forget that the AAC is a self-proclaimed P6 conference and those teams are not likely to spend the money to again establish a new conference. Plus even if they did, they might once again decide there are better choices for membership than USM.

Arkstfan · May 11, 2017

USM is 130 miles SSW of the geographic center of CUSA but 410 miles ESE from the center of CUSA West.

UNT is 170 miles NW of the geographic center of CUSA West and 570 from the center of the league.

Now the other two schools in CUSA with AD's who have complained about the travel are ODU and MTSU.

ODU is 470 miles from the geographic center of CUSA East and MTSU is 385 miles.

AState is 300 miles from the nearest Sun Belt football school but only 313 from the center of Sun Belt West in sports other than football, 280 from the center of the entire league and 325 from the football center.

CUSA West is well designed for the Texas schools and La.Tech and from the sampling of fan comments the five schools most content with the current situation.

CUSA East not so much. MTSU and WKU are 100 miles apart, FIU and FAU are in different media markets but the same metro. Then you start getting longer trips.

Arkstfan · May 11, 2017

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

This whole realignment between the SBCUSA schools has to happen. The MAC has a huge regional advantage for rivalries and coverage from media because it's tighter. The old SWC was the same way. It fell apart because the bigger schools wanted national coverage which the Texas-centric markets couldn't provide. But a SWC 2.0 would do really well today for a regionalized league for schools like ours.

It would help us so much from a cost standpoint to travel no further than El Paso to the West, Jonesboro/ Hattiesburg to the East, and Houston/Lafayette to the South. UTEP, UTSA, Texas State, Rice, UNT, Arkansas state, La tech, ULL, and USM would seriously be the best conference setup we've had in 50+ years.

SWC was in many ways a victim of having their TV come up for renewal at the wrong time. If they had been under a longer TV deal they might well have survived or at least lived on in something somewhat more similar. ESPN2 was four months old. The first personal use DVR was still five years away which was what ended up driving so many ad dollars into sports as advertisers sought programming that was "DVR proof" and commercials are actually watched instead of skipped.

Instead at that point TV revenue had actually fallen after the NCAA monopoly on TV was broken and was just barely recovering.

GrandGreen · May 11, 2017

7 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

USM is 130 miles SSW of the geographic center of CUSA but 410 miles ESE from the center of CUSA West.

UNT is 170 miles NW of the geographic center of CUSA West and 570 from the center of the league.

Now the other two schools in CUSA with AD's who have complained about the travel are ODU and MTSU.

ODU is 470 miles from the geographic center of CUSA East and MTSU is 385 miles.

AState is 300 miles from the nearest Sun Belt football school but only 313 from the center of Sun Belt West in sports other than football, 280 from the center of the entire league and 325 from the football center.

CUSA West is well designed for the Texas schools and La.Tech and from the sampling of fan comments the five schools most content with the current situation.

CUSA East not so much. MTSU and WKU are 100 miles apart, FIU and FAU are in different media markets but the same metro. Then you start getting longer trips.

Those numbers are highly skewed by the inclusion of El Paso, a CUSA member that was chosen by the old CUSA group that includes USM.

Cerebus · May 11, 2017

8 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

CUSA West is well designed for the Texas schools and La.Tech and from the sampling of fan comments the five schools most content with the current situation.

CUSA West + ASU + ULL + TexSt would be a very nice compact G5 conference. I would also love to add USM in the mix but I think they would probably rather be SE oriented and want to recruit Florida as well.

AAC basketball money is probably too much to lure UH, SMU into that conference in the current time frame.

I think there is a good chance that several of the Texas Tech/Baylor/SMU/TCU bunch get left out in the code when the B12 explodes. However they will want to form their own new conference core and poach others.

However, at that point the P4 (we'll all pretend its the NCAA) might be tired of more conference shuffling and refuse to give a new conference an autobid. That would make things very interesting in Texas.

Arkstfan · May 11, 2017

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

CUSA West + ASU + ULL + TexSt would be a very nice compact G5 conference. I would also love to add USM in the mix but I think they would probably rather be SE oriented and want to recruit Florida as well.

AAC basketball money is probably too much to lure UH, SMU into that conference in the current time frame.

I think there is a good chance that several of the Texas Tech/Baylor/SMU/TCU bunch get left out in the code when the B12 explodes. However they will want to form their own new conference core and poach others.

However, at that point the P4 (we'll all pretend its the NCAA) might be tired of more conference shuffling and refuse to give a new conference an autobid. That would make things very interesting in Texas.

AState is more interested in the SE and mid-south. We recruit more to our east than to the west.

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Those numbers are highly skewed by the inclusion of El Paso, a CUSA member that was chosen by the old CUSA group that includes USM.

Not really. They are 410 miles from the geographic center of CUSA West and UTEP does skew that but it is 530 miles to UNT, 630 to UTSA, and 435 to Rice. Dropping UTEP from the equation only moves the geographic center 130 miles east.

Ben Gooding · May 11, 2017

9 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

AState is more interested in the SE and mid-south. We recruit more to our east than to the west.

Not really. They are 410 miles from the geographic center of CUSA West and UTEP does skew that but it is 530 miles to UNT, 630 to UTSA, and 435 to Rice. Dropping UTEP from the equation only moves the geographic center 130 miles east.

Arkansas State in time will get tied to the Texas teams one way or another.

untjim1995 · May 11, 2017

What is the scenario to me that could easily happen goes like this: when the Big XII loses its big names in years leading up to the GOR expiring in 2025:

The Texoma Four go to the Pac. KU goes to the B1G. WVU goes to the ACC.

KSU, ISU, BU, and TCU then raids teams to the east in ECU, Cincy, Memphis, UH, UCF, USF, MUTS, and NIU to join them in a non-power league still called the Big XII.

The AAC then replaces the 6 teams they lose with Rice, UTEP, UTSA, USM, La Tech, and an F_U that gets them back to 12. And the MWC loses nobody, but doesn't expand west because they don't want anyone left.

And then the remnants of the SBCUSA just combine. We play in a division that is UNT with NMSU, Texas State, ULM, ULL, Ark State, USA, and Troy. The other division is the leftover F_U, Ga State, Ga Southern, Appy State, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall, and WKU.

GrandGreen · May 11, 2017

28 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

What is the scenario to me that could easily happen goes like this: when the Big XII loses its big names in years leading up to the GOR expiring in 2025:

The Texoma Four go to the Pac. KU goes to the B1G. WVU goes to the ACC.

KSU, ISU, BU, and TCU then raids teams to the east in ECU, Cincy, Memphis, UH, UCF, USF, MUTS, and NIU to join them in a non-power league still called the Big XII.

The AAC then replaces the 6 teams they lose with Rice, UTEP, UTSA, USM, La Tech, and an F_U that gets them back to 12. And the MWC loses nobody, but doesn't expand west because they don't want anyone left.

And then the remnants of the SBCUSA just combine. We play in a division that is UNT with NMSU, Texas State, ULM, ULL, Ark State, USA, and Troy. The other division is the leftover F_U, Ga State, Ga Southern, Appy State, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall, and WKU.

I like how you concede that MTSU will be a better program than NT in 7 years and automatically assume NT will not be in a position to move up. Then further this theory by implying NT won't even be in the second group with Rice, etc. and will be destined to the lowest possible league. NT is spending a lot of money for nothing, and apparently has made a bunch of bad personnel decisions if this comes to fruition.

MeanGreenTexan · May 11, 2017

15 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I like how you concede that MTSU will be a better program than NT in 7 years and automatically assume NT will not be in a position to move up. Then further this theory by implying NT won't even be in the second group with Rice, etc. and will be destined to the lowest possible league. NT is spending a lot of money for nothing, and apparently has made a bunch of bad personnel decisions if this comes to fruition.

Sorry to break this to you, but MTSU has been a better program than UNT for a very long time now... like since both schools were in the SBC.
MT continually won the SBC BUBAS Cup, while the best we ever did was 4th-or-so. There is a lot of work to be done.

Ben Gooding · May 11, 2017

12 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Sorry to break this to you, but MTSU has been a better program than UNT for a very long time now... like since both schools were in the SBC.
MT continually won the SBC BUBAS Cup, while the best we ever did was 4th-or-so. There is a lot of work to be done.

Very true. They have a sense of pride there in Murfreesboro, much like in Hattiesburg. Small town universities typically out perform metropolitan universities. It's a sense of community and pride thing in the smaller towns. And it drives their athletic programs to perform well.

You can throw Ruston in there with those 2 towns as well. And Jonesboro for that matter.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Ben Gooding

MeanGreen_MBA · May 11, 2017

38 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Sorry to break this to you, but MTSU has been a better program than UNT for a very long time now... like since both schools were in the SBC.
MT continually won the SBC BUBAS Cup, while the best we ever did was 4th-or-so. There is a lot of work to be done.

except for those 4 years in a row we won the SBC

MeanGreenTexan · May 11, 2017

4 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

except for those 4 years in a row we won the SBC

That's football... There is much more to a "program", which is what we were discussing.

MeanGreen_MBA · May 11, 2017

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That's football... There is much more to a "program", which is what we were discussing.

should you count the 2 NCAA tournaments we went to?

MeanGreenTexan · May 11, 2017

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

should you count the 2 NCAA tournaments we went to?

Should we count the NCAA tourney WIN MT had JUST 2 MONTHS AGO??

Program = All of your Athletics teams. MT's has been better than ours for quite some time.

Sad reality, I know. Tough to come to grips with this.

I'm here for you buddy.

Ben Gooding · May 11, 2017

3 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

should you count the 2 NCAA tournaments we went to?

I think he is referring to just overall consistency across the board and general support from their community and alum. They are currently atop us on both spectrums.

ColoradoEagle · May 11, 2017

42 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Small town universities typically out perform metropolitan universities. It's a sense of community and pride thing in the smaller towns. And it drives their athletic programs to perform well.

Murfreesboro is literally the exact equivalent to Denton. Denton is about 30 miles from Dallas/Ft. Worth and Murfreesboro is 30 miles from Nashville. It's also the county seat for a neighboring county.

Ben Gooding · May 11, 2017

3 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Murfreesboro is literally the exact equivalent to Denton. Denton is about 30 miles from Dallas/Ft. Worth and Murfreesboro is 30 miles from Nashville. It's also the county seat for a neighboring county.

Except we have roughly quadruple the population to compete against and for. Not to mention 5 pro sport teams and 3 other local FBS colleges to compete with. It's harder to be a small fish a big lake than a small fish in a small pond.

And then of course the 8 or 9 other FBS universities statewide.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Ben Gooding

VideoEagle · May 11, 2017

16 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

What is the scenario to me that could easily happen goes like this: when the Big XII loses its big names in years leading up to the GOR expiring in 2025:

The Texoma Four go to the Pac. KU goes to the B1G. WVU goes to the ACC.

KSU, ISU, BU, and TCU then raids teams to the east in ECU, Cincy, Memphis, UH, UCF, USF, MUTS, and NIU to join them in a non-power league still called the Big XII.

The AAC then replaces the 6 teams they lose with Rice, UTEP, UTSA, USM, La Tech, and an F_U that gets them back to 12. And the MWC loses nobody, but doesn't expand west because they don't want anyone left.

And then the remnants of the SBCUSA just combine. We play in a division that is UNT with NMSU, Texas State, ULM, ULL, Ark State, USA, and Troy. The other division is the leftover F_U, Ga State, Ga Southern, Appy State, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall, and WKU.

While I agree with the general scenario, I think you might be off on some specifics. Last time there was discussion with the Pac, they really were not very interested in Texas Tech and today TCU has shown they can keep up with a P4/5 level of competition. Combined with TCU's verses Tech's academics and TCU is likely a better PAC fit.

Whomever are the Big XII remnants will be able to pick whom they want from the non-power conferences but I know number of Big XII teams would be happy to be rid of a conference member on the East Coast. I'm not sure they really want ECU, UCF or USF verse someone who is a more regional fit. Remember the TV dollars are going to drop and the need to build regional rivalries will apply to the new Big XII as well.

You assume anyone from CUSA, Belt or MAC would jump at the chance to join the AAC no matter what teams happen to be left IN the AAC. But everyone remembers the last time there was a major reshuffle and the name on a conference patch will mean a lot less as the TV dollars drop verses the TEAMS within that conference. Everyone will need to build rivalries to drive ticket sales and donations to make up for the lost TV dollars. The names of AAC, CUSA, Sun Belt and MAC will probably stay to insure NCAA tournament autobids, but the teams in each are likely to shift around.