Former Bball players under investigation

[Cerebus]

This is nothing like the Baylor rape case.  Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of the facts of the Baylor case, or being willfully obtuse to try and settle old grudges.

If this had been like the Baylor case the following would have happened:

• The RA would have told the student not to make waves, 
• then the campus counselors that the student went to would have told her they would handle it internally,
• then even if the student went to campus or local police they would try to soft peddle it,
• and as all this was going on the coaching staff would be running around trying to get everyone under their control, 
• and finally this would of happened to DOZENS AND DOZENS of students.

Instead, the RA escalated the situation correctly.  The UNT PD investigated competently, made arrests and reported everything to the correct county authorities.  Now it's completely out of the hands of the university and in the courts of law.

Can anyone point to something the university has done that is wrong?

Every year a lot of students get involved in criminal acts, whether its smoking a joint or something worse.  Happens at every single school, of course it's going to happen here.   I have seen exactly zero evidence that the University or athletics was involved in any sort of cover up, or trying to protect anyone.  In fact it seem the player who had done wrong was told to move as soon as the authorities believed they had a strong case.  

 

 

[UNTLifer]

12 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

This is nothing like the Baylor rape case.  Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of the facts of the Baylor case, or being willfully obtuse to try and settle old grudges.

If this had been like the Baylor case the following would have happened:

• The RA would have told the student not to make waves, 
• then the campus counselors that the student went to would have told her they would handle it internally,
• then even if the student went to campus or local police they would try to soft peddle it,
• and as all this was going on the coaching staff would be running around trying to get everyone under their control, 
• and finally this would of happened to DOZENS AND DOZENS of students.

Instead, the RA escalated the situation correctly.  The UNT PD investigated competently, made arrests and reported everything to the correct county authorities.  Now it's completely out of the hands of the university and in the courts of law.

Can anyone point to something the university has done that is wrong?

Every year a lot of students get involved in criminal acts, whether its smoking a joint or something worse.  Happens at every single school, of course it's going to happen here.   I have seen exactly zero evidence that the University or athletics was involved in any sort of cover up, or trying to protect anyone.  In fact it seem the player who had done wrong was told to move as soon as the authorities believed they had a strong case.  

 

 

Two thumbs up!!

[UNT90]

17 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Thank you UNT90, now back to Alex Jones in the INFOWAR Studios.

And back to your circle... activity

[forevereagle]

1 minute ago, UNT90 said:

And back to your circle... activity

Just stop.

[UNT90]

Just now, forevereagle said:

Just stop.

I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, eh?

get back to that circle. 

[GreenMachine]

11 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, eh?

get back to that circle. 

but you fail to mention that you are in the middle of that circle getting sprayed!!!

[VideoEagle]

36 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Can anyone point to something the university has done that is wrong?

No one can I guess. 

[UNT90]

11 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

No one can I guess. 

The university never does wrong in your eyes. Baylor could really use your fandom.

 

They left Benford in place for 3 years longer than any other university would have. That decision led to a possible sexual assault and a prostitution ring. 

Laziness begat laziness begat criminal activity 

19 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

but you fail to mention that you are in the middle of that circle getting sprayed!!!

 Na, the barrels are all point toward the ground and shooting blanks. 

[UNTFan23]

Just now, UNT90 said:

The university never does wrong in your eyes. Baylor could really use your fandom.

 

They left Benford in place for 3 years longer than any other university would have. That decision led to a possible sexual assault and a prostitution ring. 

Laziness begat laziness begat criminal activity 

From a legal aspect, has the university done anything wrong? Not Penn State, not Baylor ... North Texas. Point us to something that they've done wrong that makes getting a conviction in court more difficult.

[UNT90]

42 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

From a legal aspect, has the university done anything wrong? Not Penn State, not Baylor ... North Texas. Point us to something that they've done wrong that makes getting a conviction in court more difficult.

Lol. They NEVER bear responsibility for ANYTHING in your eyes. It's impossible to know the answer to your question one way or the other at this point, but you are just fine pre-exonerating the university because that it literally all you ever do. 

A fine example how UNT fans always accept losing, and hence UNT will always be a loser. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by UNT90

[UNTFan23]

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Lol. They NEVER bear responsibility for ANYTHING in your eyes. It's impossible to know the answer to your question one way or the other at this point, but you are just fine pre-exonerating the university because that it literally all you ever do. 

A fine example how UNT fans also accept losing, and hence UNT will always be a loser. 

You're dodging the question ... outside of punting the investigation to another agency ... has the university done anything wrong that would be considered wrong or illegal?

If anything, punting an investigation to another agency diverts the blame away from the school. They get a built-in scape goat that way. "UNT (and its PD) didn't drop the ball on investigating this crime, <insert outside policing agency> muffed the punt."

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

This is nothing like the Baylor rape case.  Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of the facts of the Baylor case, or being willfully obtuse to try and settle old grudges.

If this had been like the Baylor case the following would have happened:

• The RA would have told the student not to make waves, 
• then the campus counselors that the student went to would have told her they would handle it internally,
• then even if the student went to campus or local police they would try to soft peddle it,
• and as all this was going on the coaching staff would be running around trying to get everyone under their control, 
• and finally this would of happened to DOZENS AND DOZENS of students.

Instead, the RA escalated the situation correctly.  The UNT PD investigated competently, made arrests and reported everything to the correct county authorities.  Now it's completely out of the hands of the university and in the courts of law.

Can anyone point to something the university has done that is wrong?

Every year a lot of students get involved in criminal acts, whether its smoking a joint or something worse.  Happens at every single school, of course it's going to happen here.   I have seen exactly zero evidence that the University or athletics was involved in any sort of cover up, or trying to protect anyone.  In fact it seem the player who had done wrong was told to move as soon as the authorities believed they had a strong case.  

 

 

I CAN!!!!!!

They're letting the UNT PD investigate this as a CYA move instead of letting Adrian Beltre take the lead.  The dude is not even playing right now, you'd think he could spare a few minutes to wrap this thing up.

[oldguystudent]

This was on the Ticket this afternoon. They portrayed it as UNT basketball players soliciting sex from students.  No Baylor comparisons, so we got that goin' for us, which is nice. 

[Ben Gooding]

56 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

From a legal aspect, has the university done anything wrong? Not Penn State, not Baylor ... North Texas. Point us to something that they've done wrong that makes getting a conviction in court more difficult.

Criminally, that we know of, no. 

But they did manifest a certain atmosphere with and due to a fledgling coach that should have in fact been fired at the end of year 3. By doing what most programs would have done after year 3, none of this would've taken place. When things fall completely apart on the field/court, do you think things are nice and cozy off? Certainly you don't and can't think that. Pending the severity and length of all of this, that no one on the outside really knows, failure to monitor comes to play.  

The players/manager will be held accountable for their actions, that should go without saying. But they are de facto employees of the university. And unlike normal students, they do have a supervisor (coach and assistants). And that supervisor has a supervisor and so forth and so on. It's the price of responsibility that is paid when you sign up to be in those shoes. 

[GangGreen]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

They left Benford in place for 3 years longer than any other university would have. That decision led to a possible sexual assault and a prostitution ring. 

Will you quit calling it a prostitution ring? That's like calling a BB gun an assault rifle.

[EagleMBA]

40 minutes ago, GangGreen said:

Will you quit calling it a prostitution ring? That's like calling a BB gun an assault rifle.

Maybe, but if you stood those guys in a circle it would definitely be a DOPE RING!

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Lol. They NEVER bear responsibility for ANYTHING in your eyes. It's impossible to know the answer to your question one way or the other at this point, but you are just fine pre-exonerating the university because that it literally all you ever do. 

A fine example how UNT fans always accept losing, and hence UNT will always be a loser. 

Nice avoidance of the question.

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

Criminally, that we know of, no. 

But they did manifest a certain atmosphere with and due to a fledgling coach that should have in fact been fired at the end of year 3. By doing what most programs would have done after year 3, none of this would've taken place. When things fall completely apart on the field/court, do you think things are nice and cozy off? Certainly you don't and can't think that. Pending the severity and length of all of this, that no one on the outside really knows, failure to monitor comes to play.  

The players/manager will be held accountable for their actions, that should go without saying. But they are de facto employees of the university. And unlike normal students, they do have a supervisor (coach and assistants). And that supervisor has a supervisor and so forth and so on. It's the price of responsibility that is paid when you sign up to be in those shoes. 

Yep because this happened under Trilli, Dodge, Stephens and every other lame duck coach.  Try again, but this was the actions of two young men outside of the program.  Such a weak argument.  

[Graddean]

If I were these guys, I would love to have some of you on my jury.  Here is my plea.  Judge it isn't my fault.  I went to this school that had an incompetent AD.  He then hired an incompetent basketball coach.  The school fired the incompetent AD.  The new AD turned out to be incompetent because he did not fire the basketball coach before the season was over.  With all of this incompetency around me, I assumed the campus police would be equally incompetent.  It should not be held against me that miscalculated the police.  How can you blame me.  I rest my case.

[Ben Gooding]

22 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Nice avoidance of the question.

Yep because this happened under Trilli, Dodge, Stephens and every other lame duck coach.  Try again, but this was the actions of two young men outside of the program.  Such a weak argument.  

Odds are much greater. That's just the way it is. Coaches start getting desperate and start making bad personnel decisions based on the need to win. That is a generalization for major collegiate sports in the US. 

[Rudy]

14 hours ago, UNT90 said:

That was directed at the AD mouthpiece 23.

Again, do you consider UNT PD on the same investigative level as the Texas Rangers?

First, training and experience doing are two very different things. Secondly, you basically agreed with me by saying they would "bring in additional resources." Those "resources" would be experienced investigators from other agencies. 

And if they are going to do that, just hand it over and get UNT's name off the investigation completely. That's what should happen, anyway.

But, it seems that you are saying that a UNT officer or investigator automatically do not have the qualifications for specialized cases like human trafficking just because they work for a smaller agency.  

[outoftown]

This is all bad. UNT90 is once again not completely wrong, but overdoes the point to a degree that makes it hard to not turn on the ignore button.

If an outside journalist wants to do a hit piece on UNT, does the fact that it is UNTPD investigating make it easier to insinuate a cover up is happening, even if this is standard procedure? Sure. How likely is that? depends on a lot of details we have no clue about yet. But we should consider it at least as somewhat probable as these kinds of things tend to attract a certain kind of journalist.This will be a big uphill battle PR wise, even if you do everything right people unaffiliated with the concerned university never say: "oh you handled that well". Its a lose only situation. Lets hope that this was very limited and two victims is all there were. That would be bad enough as it is. I would not be surprised if the NCAA is gonna take an interest. Even if they find absolutely nothing wrong with how the administration handled this, it would still hit recruiting and the universities reputation.

I think it is save too say the Benford legacy just got a lot worse than it already was.

Edited May 10, 2017 by outoftown

[forevereagle]

18 hours ago, UNT90 said:

I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, eh?

get back to that circle. 

Tone deaf.

[southsideguy]

Think Craig James called them for a "date".

[SilverEagle]

20 hours ago, Cerebus said:

This is nothing like the Baylor rape case.  Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of the facts of the Baylor case, or being willfully obtuse to try and settle old grudges.

If this had been like the Baylor case the following would have happened:

• The RA would have told the student not to make waves, 
• then the campus counselors that the student went to would have told her they would handle it internally,
• then even if the student went to campus or local police they would try to soft peddle it,
• and as all this was going on the coaching staff would be running around trying to get everyone under their control, 
• and finally this would of happened to DOZENS AND DOZENS of students.

Instead, the RA escalated the situation correctly.  The UNT PD investigated competently, made arrests and reported everything to the correct county authorities.  Now it's completely out of the hands of the university and in the courts of law.

Can anyone point to something the university has done that is wrong?

Every year a lot of students get involved in criminal acts, whether its smoking a joint or something worse.  Happens at every single school, of course it's going to happen here.   I have seen exactly zero evidence that the University or athletics was involved in any sort of cover up, or trying to protect anyone.  In fact it seem the player who had done wrong was told to move as soon as the authorities believed they had a strong case.  

 

 

Did any of the coverage say "The UNT Police have concluded their investigation and have turned all of their findings over to the Denton County DA?" Because, if not, then the University HAS done something wrong. It is the DA's job to decide if someone gets criminal charges filed against them. And it is the DA's job to ask for the Rangers to come in and take over the investigation. Although I would think that before they do that, they would ask the Denton County Sheriff's department (if they are anything more than glorified jailers) to take over.

When the F-5 crap storm hit down in Baylor and I kept hearing the term "handle it in-house" I kept saying "and the McClellan County DA approves of that?"

Because I can tell you from professional experience, that the Tarrant County District Attorney would never (during my professional tenure) let anyone get away with doing anything but calling them and saying/asking "Here's what we have, now what's our next move?". The Tarrant County District attorney (of my day) would have told the Baylor officials "you need to get yourself down to our office.......and bring your toothbrush".

This is a long harangue to say that I professionally agree with UNT90.

[VideoEagle]

12 hours ago, outoftown said:

UNT90 is once again not completely wrong

Yes he is.

Suggesting the UNTPD is incapable of investigating students who are doing work for the university - volunteer or paid - is wrong and implies a terrible assumption. He alleged that since the UNTPD reports to the UNT administration, the administration thus controls all of the investigations. That is not correct and for it to be correct requires the officers of the UNTPD to lack any sort of personal integrity. Almost every police department had administrative reporting to a city or county authority such as a city manager, a commissioner  or in a very few cases directly to a mayor. When civil authorities try to interfere, their are system in place, either formal or informal, that let the police departments report this. It comes out, it always comes out. 

As for an unscrupulous journalist creating a hit piece on NT, yes that can happen. But there are a LOT on journalists who would be very happy to listing to a representative of a department explain the truth, then the journalists investigate that is report what the truth. Discrediting unscrupulous journalists is a major coup for a news organization that can pull it off. 

Everything I've read so far suggests this the kind of thing a vice division in a police department would handle. This isn't good, but it's certainly not disastrous, especially since by every indication to rational people the University has done everything strictly by the book. The RA reported the incident, the UNTPD investigated, the Denton DA had warrants issued and arrests have been made. There could be more to come, but right now everything is exactly by the book. 

In fact, the University administration went beyond what is required and hired an outside law firm to investigate if there is some kind of culture within the school that encourages this kind of behavior. They then sent emails to lots and lots of us stating the administration wanted to do everything possible to prevent this from happening again. They did not have to do either of those things. They did and are giving the impression to rational people they are doing everything they possibly can to fix the problem.

UNT90 chooses not to believe anything the administration says, writes or does. He writes over and over ad nauseam that anyone who disagrees with his view must be wrong. Not only must they be wrong, if the write anything in disagreement they must be coordinating their messages with the athletic department, the University administration and even the now fired athletic director and basketball coach. He has added that anyone suggesting he is incorrect is guilty of "cyberbullying." I personally do not think this is a healthy attitude, but I'm not a trained psychologist.

 

EDIT- by the way I didn't give outoftown a down vote for his post. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by VideoEagle