CUSA and Sunbelt Merger About to Happen Folks

shootermcgavin44 · April 18, 2017

16 hours ago, greenminer said:

Completely disagree.

And, you've clearly not factored in the road-trip value here or you simply don't care at all about road trips.

You seriously would be a proponent of being in the same conference as Monroe again? Such an #olddenton mindset, we need to stay as far away from reuniting the Sunbelt as possible

wardly · April 18, 2017

We presently have a number of former SBC members in CUSA , including UNT, so reuniting in the same conference should not be a problem. I would hope that at some point both conferences set a standard for athletic budgets . That would weed out the glorified 1aa members such as ULM.Also, I miss playing Ark. State and ULL,and would like to see us in the same conference with them.

shootermcgavin44 · April 18, 2017

40 minutes ago, wardly said:

We presently have a number of former SBC members in CUSA , including UNT, so reuniting in the same conference should not be a problem. I would hope that at some point both conferences set a standard for athletic budgets . That would weed out the glorified 1aa members such as ULM.Also, I miss playing Ark. State and ULL,and would like to see us in the same conference with them.

No! No! No! No! Never! Never! No! Never!

Appalachian State

Arkansas State

Troy

Idaho

Louisiana Lafayette

Georgia Southern

Louisiana Monroe

South Alabama

Georgia State

New Mexico State

Texas State

greenminer · April 18, 2017

If the MWC were a part of the P5, I would absolutely be on board with joining the teams in far away lands. The money gap is too much to ignore.

But it's not.

Arkstfan · April 19, 2017

2 hours ago, wardly said:

We presently have a number of former SBC members in CUSA , including UNT, so reuniting in the same conference should not be a problem. I would hope that at some point both conferences set a standard for athletic budgets . That would weed out the glorified 1aa members such as ULM.Also, I miss playing Ark. State and ULL,and would like to see us in the same conference with them.

Time for Monroe to move on. They just aren't putting enough money into the effort.

23 minutes ago, greenminer said:

If the MWC were a part of the P5, I would absolutely be on board with joining the teams in far away lands. The money gap is too much to ignore.

But it's not.

Just my opinion but the only teams in MWC that appeal to me as potential conference mates are New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State and Wyoming. The front range schools just don't snap in well in any alignment but if you are going to travel a long way in conference, they are pretty much worth it.

1 hour ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

No! No! No! No! Never! Never! No! Never!

Appalachian State

Arkansas State

Troy

Idaho

Louisiana Lafayette

Georgia Southern

Louisiana Monroe

South Alabama

Georgia State

New Mexico State

Texas State

NMSU and Idaho are irrelevant. They are out of the Sun Belt after this season.

App State is a potential access bowl team and they know how to win and how to sell tickets.

UL Lafayette self-generates $15 million and they also know how to sell tickets.

Troy wins, they cracked the top 25 though AState made it a short stay.

shootermcgavin44 · April 19, 2017

12 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Time for Monroe to move on. They just aren't putting enough money into the effort.

Just my opinion but the only teams in MWC that appeal to me as potential conference mates are New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State and Wyoming. The front range schools just don't snap in well in any alignment but if you are going to travel a long way in conference, they are pretty much worth it.

NMSU and Idaho are irrelevant. They are out of the Sun Belt after this season.

App State is a potential access bowl team and they know how to win and how to sell tickets.

UL Lafayette self-generates $15 million and they also know how to sell tickets.

Troy wins, they cracked the top 25 though AState made it a short stay.

I consider you guys on the same level as WKU and Middle Tenn but the Belt has some straight garbage teams.

35 minutes ago, greenminer said:

If the MWC were a part of the P5, I would absolutely be on board with joining the teams in far away lands. The money gap is too much to ignore.

But it's not.

Tell me more about these far away lands.....

Denton to Old Dominion 1414 Miles

Denton to Charlotte 1063 Miles

Denton to Marshall 1037 Miles

Denton to New Mexico 607 Miles

Denton to Air Force Academy 699 Miles

Denton to Colorado State 799 Miles

Edited April 19, 2017 by shootermcgavin44

wardly · April 19, 2017

A new blended conference could require an athletic budget of $20 million[I just pulled this number out of thin air] as a membership condition. This would separate the wheat from the shaft.

shootermcgavin44 · April 19, 2017

13 minutes ago, wardly said:

A new blended conference could require an athletic budget of $20 million[I just pulled this number out of thin air] as a membership condition. This would separate the wheat from the shaft.

Any semblance of getting the Sunbelt back together sets the athletic department back 10 years

Aquila_Viridis · April 19, 2017

Between DFW (excuse me, the North Texas region), Houston, Austonio, Miami, Tampa and Orlando we have almost a whole conference of schools in a relatively tight SE geography in major metros with busy airports and frequent flights among them. Add ATL and Charlotte (same criteria) and behold the new order:

North Texas

SMU

Houston

Rice

Florida Atlantic

Florida International

Georgia State

South Florida

UCF

Charlotte

UTSA

Texas State

wardly · April 19, 2017

I think SMU and Houston are happy where they are, which is not in a conference with us.

Aquila_Viridis · April 19, 2017

They won't be happy for long. Sure there are hurdles, but those are all destinations that players can get excited about and very accessible. It makes a lot of sense.

untjim1995 · April 19, 2017

34 minutes ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

Between DFW (excuse me, the North Texas region), Houston, Austonio, Miami, Tampa and Orlando we have almost a whole conference of schools in a relatively tight SE geography in major metros with busy airports and frequent flights among them. Add ATL and Charlotte (same criteria) and behold the new order:

North Texas

SMU

Houston

Rice

Florida Atlantic

Florida International

Georgia State

South Florida

UCF

Charlotte

UTSA

Texas State

SMU, UH, UCF, and USF aren't joining a conference with us, F_U, or Texas State. Maybe UTSA if they keep going upward, but none of these others have any chance of being in a conference with these schools!!

GrandGreen · April 19, 2017

5 hours ago, wardly said:

We presently have a number of former SBC members in CUSA , including UNT, so reuniting in the same conference should not be a problem. I would hope that at some point both conferences set a standard for athletic budgets . That would weed out the glorified 1aa members such as ULM.Also, I miss playing Ark. State and ULL,and would like to see us in the same conference with them.

I suspect it would be a big problem. The old Belt teams payed a lot of money to exit the conference, so I doubt they would be all that happy to reunite. There is also a significant difference in the average budgets between leagues.

Arkstfan · April 19, 2017

9 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

I suspect it would be a big problem. The old Belt teams payed a lot of money to exit the conference, so I doubt they would be all that happy to reunite. There is also a significant difference in the average budgets between leagues.

They paid a lot of money to join a conference generating $850,000 more a year in media not one generating $50,000 more. A conference generating significantly more in NCAA units, not one that has generated one more unit than the Sun Belt after four seasons and certainly not a conference that would land behind the Sun Belt in football performance money.

Ford didn't survive as a car company by sticking with what worked in 1955.

UNT cost-recovered moving (before dealing with travel costs, the potential to sell tickets to regional opponents) in two years. MTSU in just a bit over two years.

Imposing the same entrance and exit fees today based on current revenue. Arkansas State would never recover the cost of shifting Sun Belt to CUSA. If USM went CUSA to Sun Belt they'd cost recover it in just under 20 years.

It isn't 2013 any more.

Sure the Sun Belt has some crap programs but without ULM you never win the four conference titles, you are an independent and who knows if you are attractive to the WAC as it is crumbling in 2004 without that. Without ULM the Belt doesn't happen. La.Tech hates ULM well ULM is FBS today because of La.Tech. If Tech rides it out in the Sun Belt ULM never gets invited and has probably already starved out of FBS.

I've not noticed FAU nor FIU producing much for CUSA nor for the students who are paying so much of the cost of operations. Not noticed Charlotte posting any NCAA units in the past decade and they certainly don't offer the FCS resume of App or Georgia Southern.

As for the idea of the big difference in budgets, four Sun Belt programs have a smaller budget than La.Tech the smallest CUSA budget. Two play basketball so duh they spend less on athletics having 85 fewer scholarships and 10 fewer coaches.

One is ULM. The other is Georgia Southern who is a million back of Tech, not terribly significant.

The highest in CUSA is ODU which is skewed by really bizarre accounting in Virginia. Texas State is the highest in Sun Belt and is higher than anyone in CUSA other than ODU. Then you have 7 CUSA and 5 Sun Belt all clustered together. Down below them you have ULL USM and La.Tech clustered together.

ULM, UALR, UTA are the only Sun Belt schools not within the range of CUSA spending, and like I said, two are non-football. ULM is an outlier but it is time update your mind map with new GPS coordinates. The whole CUSA is bigger budget than Sun Belt no longer is accurate.

Wag Tag · April 19, 2017

TV revenue is not the driver anymore does that diminish the UNT brand potential? I still believe our location will be one of the attractions for another conference.

For UNT to move to a better conference that means other schools have to move up to a better conf to create the opportunity.

OU, Texas, OSU, WV need to move out of the Big 12...Houston,Cincy, Memphis, Temple move up to the new conf, SMU will never move up because it has no fan base.

We will be making major investments in facilities, whatever conf we are in we need to be top 4 or 5 in wins on a consistent basis to get attention. We are going to have to be strong enough to over ride the SMU veto even if we have to take a lower revenue split to start!

I do not want to have ULM or NMSU in the same conf!

forevereagle · April 19, 2017

14 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

I consider you guys on the same level as WKU and Middle Tenn but the Belt has some straight garbage teams.

Tell me more about these far away lands.....

Denton to Old Dominion 1414 Miles

Denton to Charlotte 1063 Miles

Denton to Marshall 1037 Miles

Denton to New Mexico 607 Miles

Denton to Air Force Academy 699 Miles

Denton to Colorado State 799 Miles

Picking the closest opponents in MWC and the furthest opponents in CUSA is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? Why not look at the furthest opponents in MWC to compare? We can also compare the closest teams in each conference to understand what we are giving up.

UNTFan23 · April 19, 2017

14 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

I consider you guys on the same level as WKU and Middle Tenn but the Belt has some straight garbage teams.

Tell me more about these far away lands.....

Denton to Old Dominion 1414 Miles

Denton to Charlotte 1063 Miles

Denton to Marshall 1037 Miles

Denton to New Mexico 607 Miles

Denton to Air Force Academy 699 Miles

Denton to Colorado State 799 Miles

Let's keep things in perspective here since you are comparing the furthest CUSA schools to the closest MWC schools. These are our closest CUSA opponents:

Rice 283 miles

UTSA 305 miles

La Tech 289 miles

UTEP 638 miles

Southern Miss 525 miles

UAB 675 miles

In the MWC, our closest opponent (assuming NMSU or UTEP don't get invited in front of us) would be New Mexico, AFA, and Colorado State (Wyoming is 900 miles). The average distance we'd need to travel just for schools in our division for the MWC looks to be at least to double what we have to travel today in CUSA-West.

Those in-state schools that fans so desperately wanted really make a difference in our travel budget. We actually have 2 out of state CUSA division opponents that are closer than who the closest individual MWC Member is to us.

These would be the furthest MWC schools we'd be sending our sports teams to:

Boise State 1,569 miles

Fresno State 1,525 miles

Nevada 1,626 miles

UNLV 1,174 miles

SDSU 1,352 miles

SJSU 1,650 miles

Utah State 1,247 miles

Edited April 19, 2017 by UNTFan23

untjim1995 · April 19, 2017

4 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Let's keep things in perspective here since you are comparing the furthest CUSA schools to the closest MWC schools. These are our closest CUSA opponents:

Rice 283 miles

UTSA 305 miles

La Tech 289 miles

UTEP 638 miles

Southern Miss 525 miles

UAB 675 miles

In the MWC, our closest opponent (assuming NMSU or UTEP don't get invited in front of us) would be New Mexico, AFA, and Colorado State (Wyoming is 900 miles). The average distance we'd need to travel just for schools in our division for the MWC looks to be at least to double what we have to travel today in CUSA-West.

Those in-state schools that fans so desperately wanted really make a difference in our travel budget. We actually have 2 out of state CUSA division opponents that are closer than who the closest individual MWC Member is to us.

These would be the furthest MWC schools we'd be sending our sports teams to:

Boise State 1,569 miles

Fresno State 1,525 miles

Nevada 1,626 miles

UNLV 1,174 miles

SDSU 1,352 miles

SJSU 1,650 miles

Utah State 1,247 miles

Man, that must have just sucked for TCU when they played out West...probably just crippled their program, I bet.

UNTFan23 · April 19, 2017

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

Man, that must have just sucked for TCU when they played out West...probably just crippled their program, I bet.

TCU has had donors step up to the plate to help propel them to where they are now. I think you can count on one hand the number of donors in the over the timeframe that have made a minimum 7-figure donation. The difference between NT and TCU is bigger than the widest gap of the Grand Canyon.

wardly · April 19, 2017

17 hours ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Any semblance of getting the Sunbelt back together sets the athletic department back 10 years

We already have 5 SBC teams in CUSA, so I don't see where adding a few more in a combined Western Regional Conference is a big deal. Plus if the conferences merged, which would eliminate any new transfer fee,reshuffled the deck, had a 20ish million dollar athletic department requirement to remain in new configuration, it should work.

untjim1995 · April 19, 2017

31 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

TCU has had donors step up to the plate to help propel them to where they are now. I think you can count on one hand the number of donors in the over the timeframe that have made a minimum 7-figure donation. The difference between NT and TCU is bigger than the widest gap of the Grand Canyon.

It doesn't really matter, since the MWC ain't inviting us anyway-they will get some really solid names for their league then. TCU, Baylor, and possibly Texas Tech are future MWC members within the next 8 years when the GOR for the Big XII expire. At that point, the MWC can also go after UTEP, UTSA, and/or Rice to join to cover the entire state.

UNTFan23 · April 19, 2017

3 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

It doesn't really matter, since the MWC ain't inviting us anyway-they will get some really solid names for their league then. TCU, Baylor, and possibly Texas Tech are future MWC members within the next 8 years when the GOR for the Big XII expire. At that point, the MWC can also go after UTEP, UTSA, and/or Rice to join to cover the entire state.

There's nothing that says the MWC is even interested in Big 12 remnants. The AAC is a better fit for TCU, Baylor, and Texas Tech due to proximity to potential conference mates compared to the MWC.

untjim1995 · April 19, 2017

12 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

There's nothing that says the MWC is even interested in Big 12 remnants. The AAC is a better fit for TCU, Baylor, and Texas Tech due to proximity to potential conference mates compared to the MWC.

TCU wants nothing to do with being in a conference with SMU--at all. They have shown that many times over. The folks in the AAC already have Texas schools, but the MWC doesn't and they have wanted to get back in since TCU left, but haven't found anyone to provide value to their members. The looked at UTEP and Rice, but the Big XII GOR gives them better options when the GOR expires. The MWC would love getting TCU back, add in Baylor, and they would do backflips to get Texas Tech and Kansas State to get to 16.

UNTFan23 · April 19, 2017

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

TCU wants nothing to do with being in a conference with SMU--at all. They have shown that many times over. The folks in the AAC already have Texas schools, but the MWC doesn't and they have wanted to get back in since TCU left, but haven't found anyone to provide value to their members. The looked at UTEP and Rice, but the Big XII GOR gives them better options when the GOR expires. The MWC would love getting TCU back, add in Baylor, and they would do backflips to get Texas Tech and Kansas State to get to 16.

What makes me think the MWC is not interested in Texas is that when TCU left, the MWC never went after another TX school to replace them. Again, there is nothing that says the MWC wants TCU back other than us spitballing where we think schools will end up when the Big 12 collapses.

untjim1995 · April 19, 2017

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

What makes me think the MWC is not interested in Texas is that when TCU left, the MWC never went after another TX school to replace them. Again, there is nothing that says the MWC wants TCU back other than us spitballing where we think schools will end up when the Big 12 collapses.

You don't think that the MWC hasn't wanted back in Texas? Do you know how TV works? They just didn't have anyone in the state that networks or other MWC members believed would be worth the investment.