Progressive Football Strategy: The Coach Who Never Punts

[Caw Caw]

I'm curious on people's thoughts on trying something like this at the next level.

[TreeFiddy]

Well, we have had a couple of coaches that never passed, so why not?

[Caw Caw]

2 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Well, we have had a couple of coaches that never COMPLETED a pass, so why not?

FTFY

[Mean Green 93-98]

George Dunham and Todd Dodge talked about this guy on the coach's show several years ago.  It's an interesting concept, but I'm skeptical that it is a winning concept at the FBS football level.

[EagleMBA]

If you think this board has been crazy from time to time, with passionate (or even vehement) rhetoric, just adopt that coach's system here.

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by EagleMBA

[Army of Dad]

55 minutes ago, Caw Caw said:

I'm curious on people's thoughts on trying something like this at the next level.

It would make for an interesting experiment and I think it could work, especially if used in certain situations.

[GrandGreen]

Would get you slaughtered at the college level.   There is logic in not punting on the opponents side of the field.   

Whatever your strategy, it would still to some extent depend on how good your team and punter is, as well as the game conditions.   

[Army of Dad]

20 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Would get you slaughtered at the college level.   There is logic in not punting on the opponents side of the field.   

Whatever your strategy, it would still to some extent depend on how good your team and punter is, as well as the game conditions.   

What about in between the 40s?

[NorthTexan95]

Supposedly his team tends to have a huge advantage in talent which explains a lot of his success.  

[EagleMBA]

1 hour ago, NorthTexan95 said:

Supposedly his team tends to have a huge advantage in talent which explains a lot of his success.  

That makes sense because of the comment by the opposing coach that some coaches don't like him running up the score. If he has a huge talent advantage, it must be very hard to keep him from moving the chains with four plays from scrimmage.

[outoftown]

I do believe teams punt too often and don't onside kick enough. That said, if everyone would do it, the data for the analytics would change, because the coaches and players on the teams on defense on 4th down and receiving the kick off would adapt. For example, it has been shown that coaches don't onside kickoff enough in the first half (when the opponents don't expect it), but that onside kicking does not have great percentages at the end of the game. Also FBS players will not allow you to recover 25%.

Also not punting and onside kicking it all the time is also a message about your defense (or at least it should be): If you have a dominant defense that can hold your opponent from advancing often enough, then the only thing you want to avoid is giving the opponent the ball in the red zone. However, if you are Texas Tech, (I.e. no defense but good on offense), why would you ever punt, if your defense can't stop the opponent, no matter if he gets the ball at his own 20 or at your 20.

But I do have to say, that I have been wondering why there aren't more funky formations out there, and why few coaches have tried too run rugby style plays (as in with laterals etc).

Edited March 17, 2017 by outoftown

[forevereagle]

14 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

It would make for an interesting experiment and I think it could work, especially if used in certain situations.

Never is not really a situation.

[Army of Dad]

18 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

Never is not really a situation.

In literal terms, no. I'm guessing you didn't watch the video enough to see even this team has punted(8 times in 8 years).

perhaps you should contact them and tell them how wrong they were to bill this guy as the coach who never punts?

As to the situationally comment, I could see maybe only "never" punting when playing teams in your own conference if you feel you have the talent advantage or "never" punting in between the 40s or maybe the 35s.

[oldguystudent]

13 hours ago, outoftown said:

 

But I do have to say, that I have been wondering why there aren't more funky formations out there, and why few coaches have tried too run rugby style plays (as in with laterals etc).

Whenever I watch Army play I wonder how great that triple option might be if you had Alabama talent handling the ball.  Add that kind of strength and speed to the already confusing deception of the system.  Yikes. 

[Caw Caw]

I think he's on to something. I also see why this would be hard to popularize. Every trend in offense and defense started with someone being told it would never work and they would get killed trying to do that. There is what's common practice and what's on the fringe. This is probably as far as you could push the boundary. He ended Highland Parks 18-year home win-streak in 2015. He is the real deal. This isn't just some thing he's trying on a whim, it's research and data backed. It's a money-ball-like approach to football. Of course as more teams adapted the data would change, but he's opening to incorporating new ideas and changing as the information does. I'm not saying I want UNT to be the forerunner, but I wouldn't be so closed off to say this would never work. People probably said it was stupid and never work in high school. He's doing the research not just rolling the dice here. 

[SilverEagle]

I know ya'll get tired of me mentioning his name, BUT if Hayden Fry was just starting out today in coaching, he would probably be running this system.

24 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

Whenever I watch Army play I wonder how great that triple option might be if you had Alabama talent handling the ball.  Add that kind of strength and speed to the already confusing deception of the system.  Yikes. 

I've thought the same thing.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Stupid. 

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

46 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

Whenever I watch Army play I wonder how great that triple option might be if you had Alabama talent handling the ball.  Add that kind of strength and speed to the already confusing deception of the system.  Yikes. 

Alabama won two national titles in the 1970s using the Wishbone Triple Option attack. 

[TreeFiddy]

1 hour ago, oldguystudent said:

Whenever I watch Army play I wonder how great that triple option might be if you had Alabama talent handling the ball.  Add that kind of strength and speed to the already confusing deception of the system.  Yikes. 

Throw on some old tape of OU, UT, and Bammer back in the day.  It was pretty tough to stop.

[Graddean]

It helps that they are able to recruit; although they say they don't.

[Eagleisland]

Field position and yardage needed for a first down have to enter into the calculation. Surely, with 4 and 30 on your own 15 yard line would be reason to punt no matter what your theory is.

[GMG24]

On 3/16/2017 at 5:35 PM, Caw Caw said:

I'm curious on people's thoughts on trying something like this at the next level.

double dumb

9 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Alabama won two national titles in the 1970s using the Wishbone Triple Option attack. 

The triple option is alive and well.  Teams use it and most don't know it.  You give your QB a Read on a run play if the read is there he throws it.  Handing RB ball is one, Running himself is 2,  throwing it is 3.  Is it standard DIVE, QB, PITCH? No but it's still there promise.  Game is always evolving.  I personally am a huge fan of New Mexico State's Triple Option out of the Gun 

[Rudy]

Also known as the Pete Carroll Offense.

[grossman]

13 hours ago, GMG24 said:

double dumb

The triple option is alive and well.  Teams use it and most don't know it.  You give your QB a Read on a run play if the read is there he throws it.  Handing RB ball is one, Running himself is 2,  throwing it is 3.  Is it standard DIVE, QB, PITCH? No but it's still there promise.  Game is always evolving.  I personally am a huge fan of New Mexico State's Triple Option out of the Gun 

Most missed penalty in football, illegal man downfield on a pass off an RPO.......Ugh..... It's an offenses world out there.

[GMG24]

22 minutes ago, grossman said:

Most missed penalty in football, illegal man downfield on a pass off an RPO.......Ugh..... It's an offenses world out there.

Yessir it is, I just tell my LB's make up for it by knocking a crossing WR into next year.  Try to keep the beasts focused on hunting.