MGB video: Wren Baker talks about UNT's search for a men's hoops coach

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

I think you're mistaking the roles here. We are customers, not his boss. Customers have absolutely no control over whether someone is hired or fired. Customers can try to influence a decision but they are not the ones to hand out the marching orders to a company's employee.

Sure they do, all the time.

Costumers don't buy people get fired.

Big customers even more impact.

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

20 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

You guys will literally buy anything. The 3 EXCUSES he gives hold no water. At all. He couldn't go back at look at film of the last 4 freaking years? Was he not a basketball coach?

The evaluation was done when UNT was 0-12 in conference. Are you freaking kidding me?

The best chance to win???? That's a joke, and he absolutely knows it.

Building a winner going forward has zero to do with this year. Nada, zip, zilch. Unless you consider the terrible recruiting position you have put the next coach in going forward by allowing a last place finish. Building a winner going forward would be the reason to make a move, not the other way around.

This gives me even more pause about Baker going forward. Pure spin. This is reminiscent of the RV "its Northern Arizona's fault" excuse for his own terrible scheduling.

This is a huge misstep by Baker. He will lose trust going forward after shoveling more bull from an office that has moved a record amount the last 15 years.

Tell the truth about why you do things, Wren Baker.

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNT90

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

5 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

Sure they do, all the time.

Costumers don't buy people get fired.

Big customers even more impact.

When customers stop buying things, people get laid off but rarely will the CEO be fired as a direct result.

3 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

You guys will literally buy anything. The 3 EXCUSES he gives hold no water. At all. He couldn't go back at look at film of the last 4 freaking years? Was he not a basketball coach?

The evaluation was done when UNT was 0-12 in conference. Are you freaking kidding me?

The best chance to win???? That's a joke, and he absolutely knows it.

This gives me even more pause about Baker going forward. Pure spin. This is reminiscent of the RV "its Northern Arizona's fault" excuse for his own terrible scheduling.

This is a huge misstep by Baker. He will lose trust going forward after shoveling more bull from an office that has moved a record amount the last 15 years.

They hold no water according to ... you?

Good to see you're sticking to the script. Keep it up, someone will adopt you ... oh wait, TCU has already. Go whine and complain over on their board since you've said you no longer care about the North Texas basketball program.

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNTFan23

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

When customers stop buying things, people get laid off but rarely will the CEO be fired as a direct result.

They hold no water according to ... you?

Good to see you're sticking to the script. Keep it up, someone will adopt you ... oh wait, TCU has already. Go whine and complain over on their board since you've said you no longer care about the North Texas basketball program.

Funny that you used these exact same excuses, isn't it. Did Baker send those to you? Lol.

You don't care about winning. And I'm going to need to see that post FROM 5 YEARS AGO before I believe you ever said anything that wasn't an echo of the UNT AD.

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

When customers stop buying things, people get laid off but rarely will the CEO be fired as a direct result.

I not sure where you get that idea, but it happens every day almost in the retail world.

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

I not sure where you get that idea, but it happens every day almost in the retail world.

It sounded good and protected the AD6?

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

7 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I not sure where you get that idea, but it happens every day almost in the retail world.

We don't fire CEOs here where I work because we have a bad quarter or two ... or even a market that has struggled for an extended period of time. You've got to show a trend over a year or two that things aren't getting better before leadership changes are made.

Sadly, I've seen way more people laid off and stores closed then CEOs that have moved on to other companies. I've worked under 3 different CEOs and 2 (soon to be 3 CIOs) in the 10+ years I have been with the company I have worked for since August 2006.

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNTFan23

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

We don't fire CEOs here where I work because we have a bad quarter or two ... or even a market that has struggled for an extended period of time. You've got to show a trend over a year or two that things aren't getting better before leadership changes are made.

Sadly, I've seen way more people laid off and stores closed then CEOs that have moved on to other companies. I've worked under 3 different CEOs and 2 (soon to be 3 CIOs) in the 10+ years I have been with the company I have worked for since August 2006.

I not sure where you work is or is not a fair picture of the world but I can tell you how retail acts I am in it everyday.

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

14 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

We don't fire CEOs here where I work because we have a bad quarter or two ... or even a market that has struggled for an extended period of time. You've got to show a trend over a year or two that things aren't getting better before leadership changes are made.

Sadly, I've seen way more people laid off and stores closed then CEOs that have moved on to other companies. I've worked under 3 different CEOs and 2 (soon to be 3 CIOs) in the 10+ years I have been with the company I have worked for since August 2006.

Like a 5 year trend? Good lord. Comical.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

15 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I not sure where you work is or is not a fair picture of the world but I can tell you how retail acts I am in it everyday.

A company will shed hundreds, if not thousands of jobs before a CEO is replaced.

Macys has been closing stores over the past couple years and Terry J. Lundgren is still in charge. Sears/Kmart is another retail company that has struggled for a while now and I'd say CEO Edward Lampert isn't in danger of going anywhere. Brian Cornell is the CEO for Target and despite a failure to make the retailer work in Canada, he still seems to have a job.

So despite customers not shopping as much at just these three retail chains alone, not one customer has gotten the respective CEO fired. Plenty of front-line employees have been laid off though.

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNTFan23

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

9 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

A company will shed hundreds, if not thousands of jobs before a CEO is replaced.

Macys has been closing stores over the past couple years and Terry J. Lundgren is still in charge. Sears/Kmart is another retail company that has struggled for a while now and I'd say CEO Edward Lampert isn't in danger of going anywhere. Brian Cornell is the CEO for Target and despite a failure to make the retailer work in Canada, he still seems to have a job.

So despite customers not shopping as much at just these three retail chains alone, not one customer has gotten the respective CEO fired. Plenty of front-line employees have been laid off though.

Sometimes and it depends on the situation. Sears is a special case but has more to do with land value and assets and a core concept that is outdated more so than CEO or VP decision. Not sure Wren would rank as CEO of North Texas is all.

When it directly hit the customer like JCPennys Ron Johnson got the boot.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

55 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Like a 5 year trend? Good lord. Comical.

How many of those 5 years was he under WB??? WB had him for 1 year, so you are telling me that you wanted WB to come in and fire TB before he ever played a game and have a 3rd buyout on the books?

Heck if we would have fired him mid-season what stops players from transferring mid season, skipping class, getting in trouble? Heck what if the intern coach does bad, do we fire the intern and hire an intern for the intern coach? Letting TB play out the year, let WB judge and see where the program needed to be fixed (in terms of upgrades needed within the program), from TB point of view, and when the new MBB Coach comes in WB will get another set of eyes to see what needs to be improved upon.

YES we some people would like to see have seen TB gone earlier but it wouldn't have changed much if anything here. WB gave us answers and we will never know if it was sugarcoated or not, but one thing it shows it that WB really did give TB a fair shot, or WB viewed the replacements even worse then TB. We can say oh well we can't any worse, actually yes we could... We fire TB and the team just skids with players getting in trouble, or looking to transfer, grades dip, etc...

But TB is gone now, so yes its time to move on. MBB has been reviewed now and we get to see what WB does.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

Sometimes and it depends on the situation. Sears is a special case but has more to do with land value and assets and a core concept that is outdated more so than CEO or VP decision. Not sure Wren would rank as CEO of North Texas is all.

When it directly hit the customer like JCPennys Ron Johnson got the boot.

If we are comparing this to retail, when a new boss comes in, they give all employees a fresh start right? Just like how WB came in and gave TB a clean slate.

Then the bad employees either change and get with the program or they are fired or they move on themselves.

Now a lot of people have different opinions on when the firing should have taken place, and that is fair. But as a manager you have to realize and think about what this firing could do to the employees under that employee (the one you're thinking of firing) could do. If you fire that person, do you have someone to replace them? If not then you can not fire that person, and lets not make up excuses saying this or that would lead to someone getting fired even without having a replacement because that was not what happened here. TB did nothing wrong outside of just a crap coaching job.

Most retail places, if they don't fire someone they will just start cutting the employees hours, so that the employee (that could get fired) looks for jobs else where. By WB letting TB coach out he season, WB made it so that the players were comfortable and that the program even though it was left in a bad spot, it's not in a spot where it is a complete rebuild. I'm sure as wel that TB and WB had discussions during the season that TB likely wouldn't be back, and that TB was coaching for his next job, while WB was likely already making a list of what he would want in his next BBall coach.

UNT MBB has some very nice pieces in terms of young talent, and an AD that is willing to spend money when you can prove why and when it is needed. The money was brought up in the interview, and has been shown with a new $12 Million dollar soccer/Field stadium, and the IPF on the way as well. Coaching in a state that has no income tax, and in an area that has a lot of HS talent.

Edited March 7, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

Army of Dad · March 7, 2017

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

You guys will literally buy anything. The 3 EXCUSES he gives hold no water. At all. He couldn't go back at look at film of the last 4 freaking years? Was he not a basketball coach?

The evaluation was done when UNT was 0-12 in conference. Are you freaking kidding me?

The best chance to win???? That's a joke, and he absolutely knows it.

Building a winner going forward has zero to do with this year. Nada, zip, zilch. Unless you consider the terrible recruiting position you have put the next coach in going forward by allowing a last place finish. Building a winner going forward would be the reason to make a move, not the other way around.

This gives me even more pause about Baker going forward. Pure spin. This is reminiscent of the RV "its Northern Arizona's fault" excuse for his own terrible scheduling.

This is a huge misstep by Baker. He will lose trust going forward after shoveling more bull from an office that has moved a record amount the last 15 years.

Tell the truth about why you do things, Wren Baker.

I see way less blatant dishonesty in these comments than the infamous Northern Arizona line put out by RV. Did WB spin it to his benefit? Yes, and no matter how he played his hand he would be spinning it.

I'll also disagree with you about the recruiting position a last place team leaves the next coach. That coach will either be a good recruiter or he won't and I don't think this year's finish will play a major role in that. The last five years? Yeah, they will play some role, but it's always up to the current coach to sell his program.

I think the bigger misstep was not canning Benford earlier. WB and I are always going to disagree on that point.

GrandGreen · March 7, 2017

6 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That is an unknown.
An interim coach may have inspired the guys to play at a level that would at least get them into the 12-team conference tournament.

Yes, he may have won the conference tournament and a couple of NCAA tournament games or the games may have been a lot more lopsided loses then they were.

I wonder if some of you commenting, actually watched a game. This team lost three starters to injuries including their best player and another that was in the top three, Combs and Johnson. This team wasn't going to significantly improve if you got the ghost of John Wooden to be an interim coach. This team didn't play well this year, but give them some credit they didn't quit.

Baker gave his rationale, and you can accept it or not. No one is making anyone be a fan. This year was going to be a disaster no matter what occurred after the decision to return Benford another year was made.

UNT90 · March 8, 2017

4 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

A company will shed hundreds, if not thousands of jobs before a CEO is replaced.

Macys has been closing stores over the past couple years and Terry J. Lundgren is still in charge. Sears/Kmart is another retail company that has struggled for a while now and I'd say CEO Edward Lampert isn't in danger of going anywhere. Brian Cornell is the CEO for Target and despite a failure to make the retailer work in Canada, he still seems to have a job.

So despite customers not shopping as much at just these three retail chains alone, not one customer has gotten the respective CEO fired. Plenty of front-line employees have been laid off though.

You seriously equate UNT athletics to Walmart and Target?

Good lord.

37 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, he may have won the conference tournament and a couple of NCAA tournament games or the games may have been a lot more lopsided loses then they were.

I wonder if some of you commenting, actually watched a game. This team lost three starters to injuries including their best player and another that was in the top three, Combs and Johnson. This team wasn't going to significantly improve if you got the ghost of John Wooden to be an interim coach. This team didn't play well this year, but give them some credit they didn't quit.

Baker gave his rationale, and you can accept it or not. No one is making anyone be a fan. This year was going to be a disaster no matter what occurred after the decision to return Benford another year was made.

Ah, the injury excuse.

Every team faces challenges throughout the season. These aren't unique circumstances to UNT.

You are right about the season being over before it started, but no one anticipated the possibility of a 0-18 conference record, which was a VERY real possibility into February. Circumstances changed. So should have Baker's evaluation time line. Instead, he chose to let this team possibility go 0-18. That's unforgivable. It also shows a lack of ability to adjust to incoming info. This is a huge weakness in many executives. They think it makes them look weak to adjust to new info. Those leaders don't last long (at least in a non-dysfunctional organization). If UNT would have changed their culture, I would fear this fate for Baker.

GrandGreen · March 8, 2017

14 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

You seriously equate UNT athletics to Walmart and Target?

Good lord.

Ah, the injury excuse.

Every team faces challenges throughout the season. These aren't unique circumstances to UNT.

You are right about the season being over before it started, but no one anticipated the possibility of a 0-18 conference record, which was a VERY real possibility into February. Circumstances changed. So should have Baker's evaluation time line. Instead, he chose to let this team possibility go 0-18. That's unforgivable. It also shows a lack of ability to adjust to incoming info. This is a huge weakness in many executives. They think it makes them look weak to adjust to new info. Those leaders don't last long (at least in a non-dysfunctional organization). If UNT would have changed their culture, I would fear this fate for Baker.

Yes, every team loses a projected 4 out of 5 starters every other year. Baker did not replace Benford during the season, all your redundant mostly illogical comments are not going to change that outcome.

UNT90 · March 8, 2017

58 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, every team loses a projected 4 out of 5 starters every other year. Baker did not replace Benford during the season, all your redundant mostly illogical comments are not going to change that outcome.

So it's gone from 3 out of 5 to 4 out of 5 now? Did they add an injured starter this 3rd day after the season was over?

Look, The SMU kid wasn't a starter. Never was a starter here. Just because you wanted him to be a starter doesn't mean that he was. I also have my doubts about him leaving the program because of his knee. Really weird circumstances led to his departure.

Combs was a big loss. Deckie wasn't. He was actually replaced by an all-conference freshman. Who was this third starter lost again? That should be pretty telling.

GrandGreen · March 8, 2017

3 hours ago, UNT90 said:

So it's gone from 3 out of 5 to 4 out of 5 now? Did they add an injured starter this 3rd day after the season was over?

Look, The SMU kid wasn't a starter. Never was a starter here. Just because you wanted him to be a starter doesn't mean that he was. I also have my doubts about him leaving the program because of his knee. Really weird circumstances led to his departure.

Combs was a big loss. Deckie wasn't. He was actually replaced by an all-conference freshman. Who was this third starter lost again? That should be pretty telling.

Now that I think about it, NT lost all five starters and had to end the season primarily with walk-ons and the training staff. Not quite sure how this debate got started, the team was bad and would have been no matter who was coaching the last semester.

UNT90 · March 8, 2017

43 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Now that I think about it, NT lost all five starters and had to end the season primarily with walk-ons and the training staff. Not quite sure how this debate got started, the team was bad and would have been no matter who was coaching the last semester.

Lol. Ok. Which one of the training staff was the team cancer that sunk this thing?

Edited March 8, 2017 by UNT90

GangGreen · March 10, 2017

On 3/7/2017 at 6:10 PM, UNT90 said:

It also shows a lack of ability to adjust to incoming info. This is a huge weakness in many executives. They think it makes them look weak to adjust to new info. Those leaders don't last long (at least in a non-dysfunctional organization). If UNT would have changed their culture, I would fear this fate for Baker.

Sure.