MGB video: Wren Baker talks about UNT's search for a men's hoops coach

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

6 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

It was not WB who gave TB the 5th year... If you are going to say fire him before the season, everyone thought this team was/ could have an okay season.

If you wanna say he should have fired TB mid-season, yes it could have gotten us more Ws, or it could have gotten more less Ws as well. WB not firing TB just shows how little trust he had in the assistants who would have replaced TB

Everyone DID NOT think this team would have an "okay season." Others and I warned that this thing would be a disaster again. I told Harry that directly. I posted it on this board. The people who said that were echoing Tony Benford. Those that paid attention to actions (his actual coaching) and not words knew the problems.

Same thing with RV. Same people either wanted him to stay or were "on the fence" about him leaving when it was clear for years he was a disaster, and many of us screamed it to deaf ears.

For the record I predicted a 20 loss season. Seems I was a bit optimistic.

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNT90

GreenMachine · March 7, 2017

10 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

We see the awful low expectations of some throughout this thread. 0-18? No problem if the AD says so. Fire Mac mid season? All behind it as long as that's what the AD wants to do.

No other FBS athletic program would have let TB come back for year 5, most not for year 3 or 4. But we are UNT, where fans are perfectly happy losing because that's what they are used to and accept.

Bad monkey!!

greenminer · March 7, 2017

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

8 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

That is the point there is suddenly some hope for everyone. And you have no idea what the final result would be, but logic states it would be better than with Benford.

I mean, never mind the former players' quotes about the disaster that TB was and how they didn't get up for games.

They were just cancers, you see.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

At least you would have demonstrated to your fans, as a new AD, that you give a crap about wins and loses. At least you would have demonstrated you weren't ok going 0-18. That is now highly suspect.

I don't care if the student manager was elevated to head coach. I bet the team would have played better:

But we were shoveled the same crap that was shoved down our throats for 5 freaking years.

You don't care about the AD SHOWING fans he cares about winning, because you don't care about it.

Let's say for just a moment that Benford was fired in late January and an assistant is elevated to be the interim head coach. What changes do you expect to take place that makes a team that is rife with poor basketball fundamentals suddenly play better? I want you honest, non-professional opinion on what changes make a bad team suddenly play better.

Let's also keep in mind that North Texas finished towards the bottom of most team statistics in Conference USA.

greenminer · March 7, 2017

Benford might have been a good x-and-o mind, but his downfall was an inability to coach the kids...on pretty much everything.

im of the opinion that new blood likely would have equated to a new energy, better chemistry, and improved execution from fundamentals to game flow/strategy.

MeanMag · March 7, 2017

WB got a pass in basketball this year, because he could blame poor performance on the last guy. I hope the search for a new coach was going on long before the season began. Realistically, not a lot of basketball coaches are looking for jobs midyear and the ones that are, probably are not worth the entertainment.

Making this job publicly available at the first possible moment its not viewed as rude to do so says WB is impatient. Making the move mid season, unless you have a guy ready to go, is irresponsible unless the head coach is a total ass hat. For all of Benford's inability to put a winning basketball team on the court, I feel like he is a decent guy. I say that knowing nothing about how he treats players.

greenminer · March 7, 2017

so there is an opinion on this board that, if you have a coach that has demonstrated over 5 years it is VERY LIKELY you will lose out and finish last, that you don't make any change because you might still lose out and finish last?

Just want to make sure I understand.

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

15 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Let's say for just a moment that Benford was fired in late January and an assistant is elevated to be the interim head coach. What changes do you expect to take place that makes a team that is rife with poor basketball fundamentals suddenly play better? I want you honest, non-professional opinion on what changes make a bad team suddenly play better.

Let's also keep in mind that North Texas finished towards the bottom of most team statistics in Conference USA.

Let's see, not having a coach that acts like what he thinks a coach should act like on the bench instead of actually coaching. What do I mean? 90% of all offense possessions where UNT's bench was on UNT's offensive side, Benny was up yelling at players DURING THE POSSESSION. Many times the whole possession. Who needs away fans when your coach is doing such a good job? Sit down and shut up and let the players do what you supposedly coaches them to do in practice. If you need to talk to them, do it on a dead ball or in a time out. Many times, Benfords voice was the only thing you could hear in the empty pit. Changing this one thing would help immensely.

Substitution patterns is another.

Free throw percentage would increase.

The pressure of playing for a losing coaching that was coaching for his job would be gone.

Players would actually want to play again. See quotes from Mitchell, Jones, and Alzee in the article by Vito. You seriously think the current players feel any different? The biggest joke from you guys is the fear that players will transfer if Benford leaves.

I can see you don't upnderstand (or don't want to understand because you have staked out a terrible argument) the mental aspect of sports, It's huge. In basketball, especially. Changing that mental aspect would have helped this team tremendously.

5 minutes ago, greenminer said:

so there is an opinion on this board that, if you have a coach that has demonstrated over 5 years it is VERY LIKELY you will lose out and finish last, that you don't make any change because you might still lose out and finish last?

Just want to make sure I understand.

It's a terrible argument, but he has latched on to protect WB and won't let go.

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNT90

MeanMag · March 7, 2017

7 minutes ago, greenminer said:

so there is an opinion on this board that, if you have a coach that has demonstrated over 5 years it is VERY LIKELY you will lose out and finish last, that you don't make any change because you might still lose out and finish last?

Just want to make sure I understand.

The change could have happened anywhere from 1-4 years. It certainly should have been corrected at the end of last year, but look at the guy in charge of that at the time...

I am not sure how firing a guy half way through the season is viewed in the coaching community, but I would imagine, it is frowned upon. Being a good boss that people want to work for includes treating people right. Lets say you are offered the same position from 2 competing schools, money is about the same, and one AD has a track record of firing people mid-season, warranted or not.

We can't money whip people here. So making it attractive to good candidates in any way possible has to be a bonus.

Edited March 7, 2017 by MeanMag

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

Just now, MeanMag said:

The change could have happened anywhere from 1-4 years. It certainly should have been corrected at the end of last year, but look at the guy in charge of that at the time...

I am not sure how firing a guy half way through the season is viewed in the coaching community, but I would imagine, it is frowned upon. Being a good boss that people want to work for includes treating people right. Lets say you are offered the same position from 2 competing schools and the AD has a track record of firing people mid-season, warranted or not.

I don't think firing Benford halfway through year 5 when he never should have gotten year 3 or 4 would tell anyone anything other than you finally did what should have been done 3 years earlier.

The coaching community is tight. They know more than anyone what a disaster Benford is as a head coach and how much rope he has been given. If anything, NOT firing Benford hurt the perception of this program with coaches, not the other way around.

MeanMag · March 7, 2017

Just now, UNT90 said:

I don't think firing Benford halfway through year 5 when he never should have gotten year 3 or 4 would tell anyone anything other than you finally did what should have been done 3 years earlier.

The coaching community is tight. They know more than anyone what a disaster Benford is as a head coach and how much rope he has been given. If anything, NOT firing Benford hurt the perception of this program with coaches, not the other way around.

Not being a member of that community, your argument sounds plausible. Also, I stopped buying season tickets after year 1. Obviously, I would have found any way out of that fiasco after that year... Certainly after 4 years it would have been obvious.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

The coaching community is tight. They know more than anyone what a disaster Benford is as a head coach and how much rope he has been given. If anything, NOT firing Benford hurt the perception of this program with coaches, not the other way around.

You know this to be the case how?

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

17 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

You know this to be the case how?

By knowing 3 former college assistant coaches. 2 of whom saw Benford coach year one as my guest when we all were trying to figure out WTF. Both told me that UNT was the worst coached team they had seen play at the FBS level.

And both told me other coaches would know, because that's how the coaching community works.

Now, one question for you. Can you show me one post in your long history where you disagreed with the AD about anything? Either Baker or RV. Just one post...

Edited March 7, 2017 by UNT90

Army of Dad · March 7, 2017

59 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

I don't know, I was basing that off the consultants report that WB released. I was using that as an example, according to the consultants, there was a lot of things that needed addressed just to get our facilities to standard.

I understand your position on WB and his handling of TB. I just think our AD department was way worse than anyone expected with no idea what WB had on his plate from Day 1.

Also, we all know the administration and BOR has screwed athletics around forever. Can you imagine the political hoops WB has to jump through everyday?

I read the report as well. It seemed as though your position was that he had fixed those "little things". I don't know that he has and it sounds like neither do you. I was honestly wondering if I missed some news about that.

I think the department was worse than I thought before reading the report, but I'd be both surprised and disappointed if he didn't get some advance information during the later stages of his hiring process. In the case of Benford WB had a gimme decision where he could show that the same old things won't be allowed under his leadership. It's a missed opportunity, and one he won't get back.

I'd guess WB did his share of political hoop jumping at most of his career stops before now. I'm sure that some of them are different, but he's had a chance to prepare for jumping through them. I'm sure that some of them suck, but that's one reason why he gets paid the big bucks.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

11 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Now, one question for you. Can you show me one post in your long history where you disagreed with the AD about anything? Either Baker or RV. Just one post...

I'm not about to dig through multiple years of posting history to find it but I didn't agree with RV hiring an assistant coach when he had said he was going to fill the position vacated by Johnny Jones with an experienced head coach.

MeanGreen_MBA · March 7, 2017

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

That's putting words in WB's mouth, well unless he told you that? It appeared to me Wren is afraid to rock the boat.

That is an assumption as well. Truth is, none of know why WB did what he did. He does not answer directly to us. I am sur h had a strategy in place. To reveal that strategy does no good as this board proves. He will never make everybody happy. Just do the hsame st job he can do. Can we all agree on this??

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

32 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

You know this to be the case how?

Seems to be common knowledge, but I can verify it as well through the coaches I have met directly and through their family members.

untjim1995 · March 7, 2017

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

We see the awful low expectations of some throughout this thread. 0-18? No problem if the AD says so. Fire Mac mid season? All behind it as long as that's what the AD wants to do.

No other FBS athletic program would have let TB come back for year 5, most not for year 3 or 4. But we are UNT, where fans are perfectly happy losing because that's what they are used to and accept.

All 1200 of them...

Look, as long as music and arts bring in students from other states, and a "value" education bring in tons of local students, the folks at the top and in the faculty are thrilled. They want nothing more.

And that's ok. It just has cost the university any interest or dollars from people who like sports. But they know that the student body, alumni, and local Dentonites overwhelmingly don't care and don't want to spend anything on UNT athletics.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

That is an assumption as well. Truth is, none of know why WB did what he did. He does not answer directly to us. I am sur h had a strategy in place. To reveal that strategy does no good as this board proves. He will never make everybody happy. Just do the hsame st job he can do. Can we all agree on this??

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

That is an assumption as well. Truth is, none of know why WB did what he did. He does not answer directly to us. I am sur h had a strategy in place. To reveal that strategy does no good as this board proves. He will never make everybody happy. Just do the hsame st job he can do. Can we all agree on this??

I stated how it appeared to me, clearly my opinion. Lets face it where we ended up made no one happy.

MeanGreen_MBA · March 7, 2017

3 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Well, there you go. I hope this settles this debate...

3 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I stated how it appeared to me, clearly my opinion. Lets face it where we ended up made no one happy.

That is what an assumption is.

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

2 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Well, there you go. I hope this settles this debate...

That is what an assumption is.

No it does not settle the debate only scares me that Wren thinks that way.

The other was just stated as if fact, but thank you for the definition.

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

7 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

That is an assumption as well. Truth is, none of know why WB did what he did. He does not answer directly to us. I am sur h had a strategy in place. To reveal that strategy does no good as this board proves. He will never make everybody happy. Just do the hsame st job he can do. Can we all agree on this??

This.

This right here.

He damn sure does. Without us, he doesn't have a job. Period.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

Just now, UNT90 said:

This.

This right here.

He damn sure does. Without us, he doesn't have a job. Period.

I think you're mistaking the roles here. We are customers, not his boss. Customers have absolutely no control over whether someone is hired or fired. Customers can try to influence a decision but they are not the ones to hand out the marching orders to a company's employee.