MGB video: Wren Baker talks about UNT's search for a men's hoops coach

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

We came in dead last.

Could it be WB had no trust or did not believe in the assistants on the staff... And again, if the intern had made the Tourney, how many people are wanting us to hire the intern or extend them instead of getting a better coach?

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

And we still could have come in dead last under an interim coach. There is possible room for improvement but that's not likely as this team has had poor basketball fundamentals under Benford.

5 years of the same

Or

A change in pace

Which is most likely to lead to a different result?

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

Just now, KingDL1 said:

5 years of the same

Or

A change in pace

Which is most likely to lead to a different result?

A change in pace when it's just plugging in an assistant from the existing coaching staff? Not likely. I doubt there'd be any radical changes on how things are done to be truthful.

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

3 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

A change in pace when it's just plugging in an assistant from the existing coaching staff? Not likely. I doubt there'd be any radical changes on how things are done to be truthful.

In most cases a change in coach creates a rebound effect and the players tend to respond positively. Whether it is a chance for hope or just shaking things up most of the time their is a pretty good increase in play.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

8 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

5 years of the same

Or

A change in pace

Which is most likely to lead to a different result?

What does a change in pace do if we had fired TB once we were eliminated from the Tourney? If we had fired TB before being eliminated yes we may have gotten 1 or 2 more wins or we could have gotten 1 or 2 less (its an endless game and no one will ever know)

And again, if the intern makes it to the Tourney and we get bounced after right off the bat, what is the benefit outside of us making the conference Tourney? Just making it won't make won't make UNT more attractive if they get bounced right off the bat. Coaches that UNT goes after will look at the pay, and the players on the roster, not what has been done in the past.

MeanGreenTexan · March 7, 2017

17 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Could it be WB had no trust or did not believe in the assistants on the staff... And again, if the intern had made the Tourney, how many people are wanting us to hire the intern or extend them instead of getting a better coach?

...crickets... No one is saying that.

Just like no one was saying Chico should have been hired after he took over for McCarney the 2nd time. And the football team played with much better effort, and actually won a game during the time Chico was interim coach.

Should McCarney have been left to continue coaching for the remainder of the season after the drubbing PortlandSt handed out?

dml7007 · March 7, 2017

Seriously people, if you support this university give WB a chance. He been here 120 days, and he has hired and post lots of new positions that could fix items I have seen complained about on this board daily. People may not need to be fired, they may need to have there structure changed. Has no one ever gone from a boss they hated to one they liked. Your productivity and actions change based on how you feel. I have no doubt that he has a vision of what he wants in this hire, and am sure we will all be impressed. Give him a chance and support our student athletes.

Edited March 7, 2017 by dml7007

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What does a change in pace do if we had fired TB once we were eliminated from the Tourney? If we had fired TB before being eliminated yes we may have gotten 1 or 2 more wins or we could have gotten 1 or 2 less (its an endless game and no one will ever know)

And again, if the intern makes it to the Tourney and we get bounced after right off the bat, what is the benefit outside of us making the conference Tourney? Just making it won't make won't make UNT more attractive if they get bounced right off the bat. Coaches that UNT goes after will look at the pay, and the players on the roster, not what has been done in the past.

So you are saying you would rather lose? I not sure I follow, my experience over my life playing sports and watching sports it is always better not to be dead last. You keep more fans you get better press, the list goes on.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

Just now, KingDL1 said:

So you are saying you would rather lose? I not sure I follow, my experience over my life playing sports and watching sports it is always better not to be dead last. You keep more fans you get better press, the list goes on.

You really think they would have seen a noticeable increase in fans after firing TB? Fans don't go because of the coach, they go because of the product on the court, and WB not firing TB just shows how little he thought of the staff that was in place...

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

Should You Fire Your Coach Midseason? A Statistical Breakdown

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

You really think they would have seen a noticeable increase in fans after firing TB? Fans don't go because of the coach, they go because of the product on the court, and WB not firing TB just shows how little he thought of the staff that was in place...

Yes I do it sends a message big time, yes I do and history supports it.

GreenMachine · March 7, 2017

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

Perhaps we do, but in terms of the grand scheme those are little things in comparison to the ruining of a "money sport". While I think we can agree it's important I still think that doesn't have to be an either/or proposition.

Since you seem to be up to date on the locker and equipment issue, which sports were affected and have they announced the issue has been corrected?

I don't know, I was basing that off the consultants report that WB released. I was using that as an example, according to the consultants, there was a lot of things that needed addressed just to get our facilities to standard.

I understand your position on WB and his handling of TB. I just think our AD department was way worse than anyone expected with no idea what WB had on his plate from Day 1.

Also, we all know the administration and BOR has screwed athletics around forever. Can you imagine the political hoops WB has to jump through everyday?

Edited March 7, 2017 by GreenMachine

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

...crickets... No one is saying that.

Just like no one was saying Chico should have been hired after he took over for McCarney the 2nd time. And the football team played with much better effort, and actually won a game during the time Chico was interim coach.

Should McCarney have been left to continue coaching for the remainder of the season after the drubbing PortlandSt handed out?

While you bring up a good point, but the difference is that Mac got destroyed on homecoming... RV didn't wanna fire Mac, but was most likely pressured into doing so because of the result and probably by NS.

Getting destroyed on HC in front of alumni and boosters was the reason for Mac...

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

Just now, GreenMachine said:

I understand your position on WB and his handling of TB. I just think our AD department was way worse than anyone expected with no idea what WB had on his plate from Day 1.

I could not agree more, but the state of the AD last summer should have had no effect on removing TB mid-season.

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

2 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

In most cases a change in coach creates a rebound effect and the players tend to respond positively. Whether it is a chance for hope or just shaking things up most of the time there is a pretty good increase in play.

Maybe the team plays better but would it be enough to overcome the NUMEROUS double digit losses in conference? Doubtful. It's quite likely we still would have finished dead last or at 13th place still missing the tournament. At least some of the fans would have been happier for it though, right?

Opponent	NTFirstHalf	OppFirstHalf	FirstHalfMargin	NTSecondHalf	OppSecondHalf	SecondHalfMargin	GameMargin	ResultWin/Loss
Charlotte	30	52	-22	46	49	-3	-25	L
Old Dominion	17	23	-6	31	32	-1	-7	L
UAB	27	23	4	25	31	-6	-2	L
Middle Tennessee	27	37	-10	41	42	-1	-11	L
Rice	39	37	2	40	64	-24	-22	L
Southern Miss	20	31	-11	45	44	1	-10	L
Louisiana Tech	30	33	-3	27	48	-21	-24	L
Charlotte	43	29	14	38	53	-15	-1	L
Old Dominion	27	30	-3	40	43	-3	-6	L
Rice	39	50	-11	41	45	-4	-15	L
FAU	35	24	11	35	40	-5	6	W
FIU	30	38	-8	41	52	-11	-19	L
UTEP	29	28	1	36	37	-1	0	L
UTSA	33	28	5	50	45	5	10	W
Louisiana Tech	32	32	0	35	53	-18	-18	L
Southern Miss	30	47	-17	23	29	-6	-23	L
Western Kentucky	36	46	-10	27	28	-1	-11	L
Marshall	53	45	8	51	61	-10	-2	L
Average Per Game	32.05555556	35.16666667	-3.111111111	37.33333333	44.22222222	-6.888888889	-10	2-16

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

We see the awful low expectations of some throughout this thread. 0-18? No problem if the AD says so. Fire Mac mid season? All behind it as long as that's what the AD wants to do.

No other FBS athletic program would have let TB come back for year 5, most not for year 3 or 4. But we are UNT, where fans are perfectly happy losing because that's what they are used to and accept.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

3 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

Should You Fire Your Coach Midseason? A Statistical Breakdown

Yes I do it sends a message big time, yes I do and history supports it.

And again, with WB not firing TB that shows what was thought of the assisants...

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

Maybe the team plays better but would it be enough to overcome the NUMEROUS double digit losses in conference? Doubtful. It's quite likely we still would have finished dead last or at 13th place still missing the tournament. At least some of the fans would have been happier for it though, right?

Opponent NTFirstHalf OppFirstHalf FirstHalfMargin NTSecondHalf OppSecondHalf SecondHalfMargin GameMargin ResultWin/Loss
Charlotte 30 52 -22 46 49 -3 -25 L
Old Dominion 17 23 -6 31 32 -1 -7 L
UAB 27 23 4 25 31 -6 -2 L
Middle Tennessee 27 37 -10 41 42 -1 -11 L
Rice 39 37 2 40 64 -24 -22 L
Southern Miss 20 31 -11 45 44 1 -10 L
Louisiana Tech 30 33 -3 27 48 -21 -24 L
Charlotte 43 29 14 38 53 -15 -1 L
Old Dominion 27 30 -3 40 43 -3 -6 L
Rice 39 50 -11 41 45 -4 -15 L
FAU 35 24 11 35 40 -5 6 W
FIU 30 38 -8 41 52 -11 -19 L
UTEP 29 28 1 36 37 -1 0 L
UTSA 33 28 5 50 45 5 10 W
Louisiana Tech 32 32 0 35 53 -18 -18 L
Southern Miss 30 47 -17 23 29 -6 -23 L
Western Kentucky 36 46 -10 27 28 -1 -11 L
Marshall 53 45 8 51 61 -10 -2 L
Average Per Game 32.05555556 35.16666667 -3.111111111 37.33333333 44.22222222 -6.888888889 -10 2-16

That is the point there is suddenly some hope for everyone. And you have no idea what the final result would be, but logic states it would be better than with Benford.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

We see the awful low expectations of some throughout this thread. 0-18? No problem if the AD says so. Fire Mac mid season? All behind it as long as that's what the AD wants to do.

No other FBS athletic program would have let TB come back for year 5, most not for year 3 or 4. But we are UNT, where fans are perfectly happy losing because that's what they are used to and accept.

It was not WB who gave TB the 5th year... If you are going to say fire him before the season, everyone thought this team was/ could have an okay season.

If you wanna say he should have fired TB mid-season, yes it could have gotten us more Ws, or it could have gotten more less Ws as well. WB not firing TB just shows how little trust he had in the assistants who would have replaced TB

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

And again, with WB not firing TB that shows what was thought of the assisants...

That's putting words in WB's mouth, well unless he told you that? It appeared to me Wren is afraid to rock the boat.

UNT90 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

Maybe the team plays better but would it be enough to overcome the NUMEROUS double digit losses in conference? Doubtful. It's quite likely we still would have finished dead last or at 13th place still missing the tournament. At least some of the fans would have been happier for it though, right?

Opponent NTFirstHalf OppFirstHalf FirstHalfMargin NTSecondHalf OppSecondHalf SecondHalfMargin GameMargin ResultWin/Loss
Charlotte 30 52 -22 46 49 -3 -25 L
Old Dominion 17 23 -6 31 32 -1 -7 L
UAB 27 23 4 25 31 -6 -2 L
Middle Tennessee 27 37 -10 41 42 -1 -11 L
Rice 39 37 2 40 64 -24 -22 L
Southern Miss 20 31 -11 45 44 1 -10 L
Louisiana Tech 30 33 -3 27 48 -21 -24 L
Charlotte 43 29 14 38 53 -15 -1 L
Old Dominion 27 30 -3 40 43 -3 -6 L
Rice 39 50 -11 41 45 -4 -15 L
FAU 35 24 11 35 40 -5 6 W
FIU 30 38 -8 41 52 -11 -19 L
UTEP 29 28 1 36 37 -1 0 L
UTSA 33 28 5 50 45 5 10 W
Louisiana Tech 32 32 0 35 53 -18 -18 L
Southern Miss 30 47 -17 23 29 -6 -23 L
Western Kentucky 36 46 -10 27 28 -1 -11 L
Marshall 53 45 8 51 61 -10 -2 L
Average Per Game 32.05555556 35.16666667 -3.111111111 37.33333333 44.22222222 -6.888888889 -10 2-16

At least you would have demonstrated to your fans, as a new AD, that you give a crap about wins and loses. At least you would have demonstrated you weren't ok going 0-18. That is now highly suspect.

I don't care if the student manager was elevated to head coach. I bet the team would have played better:

But we were shoveled the same crap that was shoved down our throats for 5 freaking years.

You don't care about the AD SHOWING fans he cares about winning, because you don't care about it.

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

That is the point there is suddenly some hope for everyone. And you have no idea what the final result would be, but logic states it would be better than with Benford.

We have no idea, every single situation is different... If logic would have stated we beat Portland St as well...

UNTFan23 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

That is the point there is suddenly some hope for everyone. And you have no idea what the final result would be, but logic states it would be better than with Benford.

Better how? A loss is still a loss. Maybe the team wins a couple more games than before (that's a pretty big stretch all things considered) but I doubt the outcome is really that much different. Maybe the margin of loss is smaller -- 8 points as opposed to 10?

BTG_Fan1 · March 7, 2017

1 minute ago, KingDL1 said:

That's putting words in WB's mouth, well unless he told you that? It appeared to me Wren is afraid to rock the boat.

Its not putting words in his mouth, if we would have had a replacement we likely would have fired TB..

VideoEagle · March 7, 2017

I did a quick search on the subject and found the same article KingDL1 listed. The article talked about pro teams but here is the quote about firing for NBA teams

Quote

That "good firings" number is important. On the whole, as you can see, a mid-season firing has had virtually zero impact on an NBA team's win-loss record. The thing is, I did find 19 "good firings," which should indicate to you that the bad firings must have been really bad firings. In several cases, would-be playoff teams sunk like rocks as soon as their coaches were fired.

Zero impact on win-loss record overall. The likely hood we would not be in the middle of a coaching search and waiting for potential replacements to finish their own seasons is very, very small. However, some of our fans would be happier. So the question is, should Bedford have been fired mid season to please some of the fans?

KingDL1 · March 7, 2017

Just now, BTG_Fan1 said:

We have no idea, every single situation is different... If logic would have stated we beat Portland St as well...

No, not if you consider the facts.

Portland was playing really well that year, we have been beaten by D1aa schools before.

Then you factor in the part that most players had just found out Mac was fired and all their coaches would be gone at the end of the season, without much time to digest it. It was a perfect storm of sorts.