North Texas hires familiar search firm for basketball hire

Harry · March 6, 2017

UNTLifer · March 6, 2017

UNTFan23 · March 6, 2017

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

Same firm that helped us find Seth Littrell?

wardly · March 6, 2017

Just an old man's opinion, but U.N.T will be a tough sell. Taking over a program that historically [with J.J. being an exception] has been a career killer, came in D.A.L. in a weak conference,and whose average attendance was about 2,000 doesn't exactly scream opportunity.

MeanGreen_MBA · March 6, 2017

1 minute ago, wardly said:

Just an old man's opinion, but U.N.T will be a tough sell. Taking over a program that historically [with J.J. being an exception] has been a career killer, came in D.A.L. in a weak conference,and whose average attendance was about 2,000 doesn't exactly scream opportunity.

sounds like our football program......and I think we did pretty well with SL.....Don't under estimate The Prez. and WB....

El Paso Eagle · March 6, 2017

Personally, I will not believe any reports or accept any hires unless they are approved by UNT 90

UNTLifer · March 6, 2017

I don't agree with the assessment that we are a tough sell. Good facilities, great area, large public school. Good coaches have egos, egos that make them believe they can win anywhere. This is far from a dead-end, career killing job.

Army of Dad · March 6, 2017

15 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Good coaches have egos, egos that make them believe they can win anywhere.

So much this.

As for everything else you could use just about every point as either a positive or a negative design on the point of view or spin.

GrandGreen · March 6, 2017

I don't believe NT and probably a 500k+ salary is going to be that tough a sale.

I do wonder why NT is just now hiring a search firm. If Baker hasn't already started the replacement process that is a lot bigger sin than when he officially fired Benford. In fact, I question the need for a search firm at all at this time. AD's should be able to perform a search without a costly middle man.

UNT Mean Green · March 6, 2017

2 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Same firm that helped us find Seth Littrell?

No. This firm helped find Wren Baker.

Army of Dad · March 6, 2017

3 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I don't believe NT and probably a 500k+ salary is going to be that tough a sale.

I do wonder why NT is just now hiring a search firm. If Baker hasn't already started the replacement process that is a lot bigger sin than when he officially fired Benford. In fact, I question the need for a search firm at all at this time. AD's should be able to perform a search without a costly middle man.

As much as I'd rather not defend any AD that played any role on Benford getting five full seasons to destroy the MBB program, WB isn't wrong in waiting to use and hire a search firm.

Searching for a coach while you have one under contract and you haven't announced he will be gone is bad form and sets a bad precedent for any potential candidates.

Search firms are useful in modern college athletics. At a minimum they provide confidentiality that is often difficult or impossible to have when dealing solely between schools and applicants/agents. This alone is often worth the cost, and they may actually find candidates that an AD wouldn't have considered on his or her own.

outoftown · March 6, 2017

6 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I don't believe NT and probably a 500k+ salary is going to be that tough a sale.

I do wonder why NT is just now hiring a search firm. If Baker hasn't already started the replacement process that is a lot bigger sin than when he officially fired Benford. In fact, I question the need for a search firm at all at this time. AD's should be able to perform a search without a costly middle man.

I get the dislike for the search firms. They get a really pretty penny for not actually doing all that much. It is however mostly done for plausible deniability I think. In the sense of the AD not directly contacting people, and being able to say: the search firm contacted the coach/agent, we were not really interested/didn't get far. Plus that way it can also not really get FOIAd, which will be important ton a lot of coaches, as they don't want their current employer/players and fan base to know (with whom) they are looking around.

UNT Mean Green · March 6, 2017

9 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I don't believe NT and probably a 500k+ salary is going to be that tough a sale.

I do wonder why NT is just now hiring a search firm. If Baker hasn't already started the replacement process that is a lot bigger sin than when he officially fired Benford. In fact, I question the need for a search firm at all at this time. AD's should be able to perform a search without a costly middle man.

This may or may not be the AD's idea. It could possibly stem from above him (i.e. Board of Regents or the like).

MeanGreenTexan · March 6, 2017

8 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I don't believe NT and probably a 500k+ salary is going to be that tough a sale.

I do wonder why NT is just now hiring a search firm. If Baker hasn't already started the replacement process that is a lot bigger sin than when he officially fired Benford. In fact, I question the need for a search firm at all at this time. AD's should be able to perform a search without a costly middle man.

Who knows when the search firm was actually approached? You obviously don't announce the hire of a search firm while you have a coach in place.
Also, the search firm is not the beginning of the process. They augment your internal search. WB no-doubt already has a short list. He'll provide it to the search firm. They'll go out and contact those guys. They'll also go out and contact other coaches they think may be interested, or a good fit for UNT too.

Do you think Seth Littrell was someone that a search firm found unbeknownst to Rick Villareal?
When Littrell was hired, Rick said he had been following him for a while after someone told him that he was an "up-and-coming" guy.

greenminer · March 6, 2017

30 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't agree with the assessment that we are a tough sell. Good facilities, great area, large public school. Good coaches have egos, egos that make them believe they can win anywhere. This is far from a dead-end, career killing job.

I wonder if some kind of parallel can be made to the argument that recruits care/do not care about a school's poor past. @BillySee58 puts it better, but basically the turnover is too fast and people in general simply don't care about what happened at your school before they became aware of it. Or, it's much easier for them (compared to long time fans) to dismiss it and consider the opportunity.

UNT90 · March 6, 2017

41 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Personally, I will not believe any reports or accept any hires unless they are approved by UNT 90

Smart man.

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I wonder if some kind of parallel can be made to the argument that recruits care/do not care about a school's poor past. @BillySee58 puts it better, but basically the turnover is too fast and people in general simply don't care about what happened at your school before they became aware of it. Or, it's much easier for them (compared to long time fans) to dismiss it and consider the opportunity.

Recruits are 18. Coaches have a degree, are over 40, and care about their career.

Slightly different scenario.

UNT Mean Green · March 6, 2017

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Who knows when the search firm was actually approached? You obviously don't announce the hire of a search firm while you have a coach in place.
Also, the search firm is not the beginning of the process. They augment your internal search. WB no-doubt already has a short list. He'll provide it to the search firm. They'll go out and contact those guys. They'll also go out and contact other coaches they think may be interested, or a good fit for UNT too.

Do you think Seth Littrell was someone that a search firm found unbeknownst to Rick Villareal?
When Littrell was hired, Rick said he had been following him for a while after someone told him that he was an "up-and-coming" guy.

Good points on the role of the firm. It makes sense and seems to align with the way Baker likes to handle things.

Littrell was not found by a search firm.

greenminer · March 6, 2017

@UNT90 I considered that. It certainly isn't an exact science, but I still think with the ego's involved that there are coaches that want to prove themselves. Not having RV represent us can only help, too.

We will get some serious inquiries.

DeepGreen · March 6, 2017

We don't need a search firm. Team me up with UNT90, plus a barrel full of money and we'll find a basketball coach for NT.

Edited March 6, 2017 by DeepGreen

GrandGreen · March 6, 2017

3 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

As much as I'd rather not defend any AD that played any role on Benford getting five full seasons to destroy the MBB program, WB isn't wrong in waiting to use and hire a search firm.

Searching for a coach while you have one under contract and you haven't announced he will be gone is bad form and sets a bad precedent for any potential candidates.

Search firms are useful in modern college athletics. At a minimum they provide confidentiality that is often difficult or impossible to have when dealing solely between schools and applicants/agents. This alone is often worth the cost, and they may actually find candidates that an AD wouldn't have considered on his or her own.

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Who knows when the search firm was actually approached? You obviously don't announce the hire of a search firm while you have a coach in place.
Also, the search firm is not the beginning of the process. They augment your internal search. WB no-doubt already has a short list. He'll provide it to the search firm. They'll go out and contact those guys. They'll also go out and contact other coaches they think may be interested, or a good fit for UNT too.

Do you think Seth Littrell was someone that a search firm found unbeknownst to Rick Villareal?
When Littrell was hired, Rick said he had been following him for a while after someone told him that he was an "up-and-coming" guy.

You are right, NT may have hired the search firm months ago, the quote doesn't specify when. That makes a lot more sense than waiting till now. .

Search firms are hired for a variety of reasons, but they are expensive and can come up with a Benford or McCarney as easy as a great coach. I think everyone is familiar with the usual process. However, the scope of the engagement can substantially vary, from a rubber stamp deal to a full search and hire.

MeanGreenTexan · March 6, 2017

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

You are right, NT may have hired the search firm months ago, the quote doesn't specify when. That makes a lot more sense than waiting till now. .

Search firms are hired for a variety of reasons, but they are expensive and can come up with a Benford or McCarney as easy as a great coach. I think everyone is familiar with the usual process. However, the scope of the engagement can substantially vary, from a rubber stamp deal to a full search and hire.

This is true. We have to hope that Baker's background as a basketball guy allows him to make the right hire here.

VideoEagle · March 6, 2017

9 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Search firms are hired for a variety of reasons, but they are expensive and can come up with a Benford or McCarney as easy as a great coach. I think everyone is familiar with the usual process. However, the scope of the engagement can substantially vary, from a rubber stamp deal to a full search and hire.

First of all, anyone who has never made a hiring mistake hasn't hired many people.

Reputable search firms that are allowed to do their jobs recommend fewer bad hires as they have far more resources from which to get information. They find head coaches multiple times a year verse an athletic director who find one or two every few years. If an AD is having to find more head coaches than that then the AD is soon going to be looking for work!

Yes, clients can hurt the search firms process and no one forces a school to follow the well researched advise. Hire a good firm, give them accurate criteria for the coach you need, be willing to compensate a coach and the firm will give you a good list of suggestions.

By the way, "a winner" and "the right hire" are not good criteria!

wardly · March 6, 2017

Five years ago we were putting 4,000 butts in seats,winning about 20 games a year, 2 NCAA bids, and Benford was pick of the litter. Why does anyone think that our pool of prospects is going to be better now?

greenjoe · March 6, 2017

Then we should see our logo on that wall of companies/schools E & B has worked for.

UNT90 · March 6, 2017

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

@UNT90 I considered that. It certainly isn't an exact science, but I still think with the ego's involved that there are coaches that want to prove themselves. Not having RV represent us can only help, too.

We will get some serious inquiries.

I think UNT will be forced to hire from lower ranks. D2 or much lower D1 programs. Doesn't mean they can't be successful, just means a Larry Brown or a Jamie Dixon ain't coming anywhere close to this disaster. Don't look for a high profile hire lest you be sorely disappointed.

This isnt 5 years ago. This isn't even a moderately disirable G5 job anymore. Don't fool yourself.

Edited March 6, 2017 by UNT90