MBB Candidate could be Ray Harper

[Arkstfan]

6 hours ago, All About UNT said:

holy crap.....grew up 2 doors down from him.  Had no idea he was coaching basketball

He's a heckuva coach. Junior College national championship, Elite Eight in Division II. Bailed out of Abilene Christian without coaching a game to be an assistant at Baylor.

This isn't the first 20 win season in AState history but it's the first time we've won 20 before the conference tournament.

Incredibly nice guy and hard worker. Right after he came to AState he started lifting with the team to figure out who to keep and who needed to get on the bus based on their work habits and attitude. One day when he was lifting one of the guys messed up at a station and the S&C coach called for up downs for everyone and Grant did them just like the players. They might run through walls for him but they'd be running hard when they hit the wall. 

[Arkstfan]

Coaching changes are an opportunity. Not one you WANT to have but it's omelet making.

I believe there are VERY few coaches who could be successful at any school. Things have to line up. Each school has its own culture, its own natural recruiting base, its own challenges, a coach has to have the right type of support, it goes beyond recruiting budget and salaries, you just have to get the right fit for all those pieces.

Now in my not worth a Starbucks grande opinion AD's mess up more searches than they get right.

Sometimes a school goes into a search overvaluing the job. You see it all the time. Schools take a flier at huge names for their spot in the college universe and suddenly hire Who? because they panic when they get a string of turndowns.

When Arkansas hired Bobby Petrino he had turned them down early on. The AD finally gave up and hired a search firm who brought him Bobby Petrino. The difference? First time Arkansas told Petrino what the job paid, second time Petrino told Arkansas what the job paid. It was a search nearing disaster until they coughed up a lot more than they planned.

Sometimes an AD gets played by agents. The agents have a client who is happy where they are but the agent wants to get the salary up, so they play a few schools to get the guys name out in the market to get the current school to deliver a better deal. Since a raise is the goal, it gets leaked. Get played enough and the search appears to be going south and with that some potential candidates get cold feet wondering what is wrong there that these guys are bailing out.

Sometimes an AD just gets sucked in by a good history. Memphis botched a football search by hiring the top recruiter at LSU because he was a great recruiter. Well recruiting to Memphis isn't recruiting to LSU.

Sometimes an AD is too sucked in by a great interview to not think about fit, the potential assistants (any competent search includes who are you hiring for your staff), and management skills.

Best of luck Greenies.

 

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

Coaching changes are an opportunity. Not one you WANT to have but it's omelet making.

I believe there are VERY few coaches who could be successful at any school. Things have to line up. Each school has its own culture, its own natural recruiting base, its own challenges, a coach has to have the right type of support, it goes beyond recruiting budget and salaries, you just have to get the right fit for all those pieces.

Now in my not worth a Starbucks grande opinion AD's mess up more searches than they get right.

Sometimes a school goes into a search overvaluing the job. You see it all the time. Schools take a flier at huge names for their spot in the college universe and suddenly hire Who? because they panic when they get a string of turndowns.

When Arkansas hired Bobby Petrino he had turned them down early on. The AD finally gave up and hired a search firm who brought him Bobby Petrino. The difference? First time Arkansas told Petrino what the job paid, second time Petrino told Arkansas what the job paid. It was a search nearing disaster until they coughed up a lot more than they planned.

Sometimes an AD gets played by agents. The agents have a client who is happy where they are but the agent wants to get the salary up, so they play a few schools to get the guys name out in the market to get the current school to deliver a better deal. Since a raise is the goal, it gets leaked. Get played enough and the search appears to be going south and with that some potential candidates get cold feet wondering what is wrong there that these guys are bailing out.

Sometimes an AD just gets sucked in by a good history. Memphis botched a football search by hiring the top recruiter at LSU because he was a great recruiter. Well recruiting to Memphis isn't recruiting to LSU.

Sometimes an AD is too sucked in by a great interview to not think about fit, the potential assistants (any competent search includes who are you hiring for your staff), and management skills.

Best of luck Greenies.

 

We have been witness to all of these the past 20 years.

 

Rick

[SilverEagle]

2 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Coaching changes are an opportunity. Not one you WANT to have but it's omelet making.

I believe there are VERY few coaches who could be successful at any school. Things have to line up. Each school has its own culture, its own natural recruiting base, its own challenges, a coach has to have the right type of support, it goes beyond recruiting budget and salaries, you just have to get the right fit for all those pieces.

Now in my not worth a Starbucks grande opinion AD's mess up more searches than they get right.

Sometimes a school goes into a search overvaluing the job. You see it all the time. Schools take a flier at huge names for their spot in the college universe and suddenly hire Who? because they panic when they get a string of turndowns.

When Arkansas hired Bobby Petrino he had turned them down early on. The AD finally gave up and hired a search firm who brought him Bobby Petrino. The difference? First time Arkansas told Petrino what the job paid, second time Petrino told Arkansas what the job paid. It was a search nearing disaster until they coughed up a lot more than they planned.

Sometimes an AD gets played by agents. The agents have a client who is happy where they are but the agent wants to get the salary up, so they play a few schools to get the guys name out in the market to get the current school to deliver a better deal. Since a raise is the goal, it gets leaked. Get played enough and the search appears to be going south and with that some potential candidates get cold feet wondering what is wrong there that these guys are bailing out.

Sometimes an AD just gets sucked in by a good history. Memphis botched a football search by hiring the top recruiter at LSU because he was a great recruiter. Well recruiting to Memphis isn't recruiting to LSU.

Sometimes an AD is too sucked in by a great interview to not think about fit, the potential assistants (any competent search includes who are you hiring for your staff), and management skills.

Best of luck Greenies.

 

Hmm, seems like I've mentioned that from time to time. 

Someone mentioned that Cross might not be interested in the job because he hasn't had to compete with a football program. If he is a good candidate to move up in the basketball world, he's more than likely going to have to deal with that anyway. I think our athletic culture (or the lack thereof) would be more of a deterrence to his being interested in the job than anything else. 

What's Dave Bliss or Billy Tubbs doing these days?

[untlynchka1]

12 hours ago, All About UNT said:

holy crap.....grew up 2 doors down from him.  Had no idea he was coaching basketball

I grew up in Irving. Went to ihs. I'm guessing he didn't graduate from Irving '99. I don't recognize him. I graduated '00. 

[Wag Tag]

Interesting blurb in the paper today with Wren saying he believes the school can attract a current D1 head coach.. Any ideas??

[Arkstfan]

6 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

Hmm, seems like I've mentioned that from time to time. 

Someone mentioned that Cross might not be interested in the job because he hasn't had to compete with a football program. If he is a good candidate to move up in the basketball world, he's more than likely going to have to deal with that anyway. I think our athletic culture (or the lack thereof) would be more of a deterrence to his being interested in the job than anything else. 

What's Dave Bliss or Billy Tubbs doing these days?

Cross was making $250,000ish but think he received a new deal. I tend to believe that if UNT came looking hard, UTA would make enough of an effort to not see him leave for money to UNT and if it isn't about money then it is about getting to where ever or whatever is his ultimate goal and I don't have the first clue what that is.

He's got UTA at 40 in the RPI (MTSU is 37), driving across the metro to helm a bottom 20 RPI and start over? My instinct says that would require some really serious money.

UALR hired a Texas Division II and Division III coach and in one season they become a 30 game winner and advance to the round of 32. AState hired an assistant from Baylor with Texas Division II and juco experience.

Have the Arkansas schools taken all the good lower level coaches working in Texas leaving the cupboard bare?

8 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Interesting blurb in the paper today with Wren saying he believes the school can attract a current D1 head coach.. Any ideas??

Willis Wilson and Jason Hooten would probably enjoy raises.

[All About UNT]

5 hours ago, untlynchka1 said:

I grew up in Irving. Went to ihs. I'm guessing he didn't graduate from Irving '99. I don't recognize him. I graduated '00. 

By 99 he was director of ops at Texas Tech. He is 40. He was in my sister's class. 

[UNTFan23]

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Army of Dad]

16 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

Hey, @dahbeed do you want to weigh in on this?

[Harry]

21 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/03/a_year_to_remember_for_ray_har.html

[MeanGreenTexan]

24 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

Hmm.  Underwhelming?    He fizzled out at WKU in his last 2 yrs there.

@TheTastyGreek, @@UNTSportsFan, what do y'all think about this?

[EagleMBA]

I just had to look. This is good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Harper

[UNTFan23]

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Hmm.  Underwhelming?    He fizzled out at WKU in his last 2 yrs there.

@TheTastyGreek, @@UNTSportsFan, what do y'all think about this?

Western Kentucky Hilltoppers (Sun Belt Conference) (2012–2014)
2011–12	Western Kentucky	11–8[9]	6–7[9]	3rd (East)[10]	NCAA 2nd Round[11]
2012–13	Western Kentucky	20–15	10–10	4th (East)[12]	NCAA 2nd Round[13]
2013–14	Western Kentucky	21–11	12–6	2nd
Western Kentucky Hilltoppers (Conference USA) (2014–2016)
2014–15	Western Kentucky	20–12	12–6	T–4th
2015–16	Western Kentucky	18–16	8–10	8th
Western Kentucky:		90–62 (.592)	48–39 (.552)

His worst complete year was 18-16. You mean to tell me NT fans wouldn't be OK with that?

Edited March 8, 2017 by UNTFan23

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Western Kentucky Hilltoppers (Sun Belt Conference) (2012–2014)
2011–12	Western Kentucky	11–8[9]	6–7[9]	3rd (East)[10]	NCAA 2nd Round[11]
2012–13	Western Kentucky	20–15	10–10	4th (East)[12]	NCAA 2nd Round[13]
2013–14	Western Kentucky	21–11	12–6	2nd
Western Kentucky Hilltoppers (Conference USA) (2014–2016)
2014–15	Western Kentucky	20–12	12–6	T–4th
2015–16	Western Kentucky	18–16	8–10	8th
Western Kentucky:		90–62 (.592)	48–39 (.552)

His worst complete year was 18-16. You mean to tell me NT fans wouldn't be OK with?

#NewDenton right?  

Or is that just a football thing?   8-10 definitely won't do in conference play.   Nice rebound at Jacksonville St though!

[TreeFiddy]

Harper is multiple time national champion, multiple time national runner up at two different lower levels.  He has taken his team to the NCAA tournament 3 out of the last 5 years.  He has a lifetime winning percentage over 70%.

We could do a lot worse than Ray Harper.

Edited March 8, 2017 by TreeFiddy

[UNTFan23]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

#NewDenton right?  

Or is that just a football thing?   8-10 definitely won't do in conference play.   Nice rebound at Jacksonville St though!

One season. I'm not a WKU fan so I couldn't tell you what lead to the less than average record for that year.

[EagleMBA]

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

#NewDenton right?  

Or is that just a football thing?   8-10 definitely won't do in conference play.   Nice rebound at Jacksonville St though!

Suggestion: Take the records (columns) in those five years for Harper, then lay down the crap we've had to swallow for the last five years beside those numbers. Which would 'ya rather?

[UNTFan23]

Here's an article regarding his departure/resignation from WKU in March 2016.

[Green Lantern]

5 1/2 seasons as a D1 head coach. 4 of those, including this year with Jax St, at 20 wins or more and now 3 NCAA Tournament appearances. Yeah, I'm interested.

I enjoyed when UNT went to the NCAA tournament.

[Harry]

There is a connection here as I believe The Wren and Harper coached in the same league when The Wren was coaching at Rogers.

im interested to hear @TheTastyGreek and @Cooley etc have to say on this possibility.

[BTG_Fan1]

If Harper is the guy, I would assume they wait to announce anything till after his team is out of the Tourney.

But this shows that WB already had the search-committee working and looking for someone even when TB was on the staff and while the season was on going. I'd like to get a younger coach (Harper is 55 according to Wikipedia) but it looks like he is would be a solid addition. 

Harper went 90-61, with him going 42-34 in conference when he was at WKU. 

[outoftown]

If true, then... wow this went fast. Why 'd he get fired at WKU? just for the 8-10 one season? If yes then I'd think it a pretty great hire.

p.s. wonder if the Harper rumor would deserve its own thread

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by outoftown

[jdennis82]

53 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Here's an article regarding his departure/resignation from WKU in March 2016.

Harper had rough exits from both Kentucky Wesleyan & WKU.  If this is the hire, I expect to hear Wren speak at length about fully vetting out these issues and implementing procedures to make sure our program doesn't get wrapped up in similar controversy.

This is a big hire for Wren...more important than getting it right on the court is making sure not to get it it wrong off the court.

[BTG_Fan1]

Just now, jdennis82 said:

Harper had rough exits from both Kentucky Wesleyan & WKU.  If this is the hire, I expect to hear Wren speak at length about fully vetting out these issues and implementing procedures to make sure our program doesn't get wrapped up in similar controversy.

This is a big hire for Wren...more important than getting it right on the court is making sure not to get it it wrong off the court.

I do agree, the problems in the past would be my largest worry... But the article says that the players didn't do anything school-wise to get the suspension, since they were still enrolled after the suspension.