Southern Miss (2/25/17)

UNTLifer · March 1, 2017

57 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

Other than the daytime DISD games I don't think I've missed attending more than a half dozen MBB home games over the last 8 or 9 seasons. I called you out for talking shit because you aren't at the games. I know you support in other ways, but that's not the same as being there almost every game.

The new regime isn't actively showing they are much different than the previous one. RV is still lauded for allowing tailgating as if that's some master stroke of genius and not a ridiculously low bar to hurdle.

As I recall, you were supportive of RV until the very end. That's what I meant by "Buddy".

I don't need to see anymore from WB. I've already said that I felt like UNT needed a man of action and I'm not seeing it. WB has to understand that his short term view here isn't the same experience his customers have had.

I didn't call you names, not sure why you had to start, but you can go play your own dick swinging games out in the oilfield, just leave me out of them.

Check your PM.

UNTFan23 · March 1, 2017

2 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

I don't need to see anymore from WB. I've already said that I felt like UNT needed a man of action and I'm not seeing it. WB has to understand that his short term view here isn't the same experience his customers have had.

What kind of action would some fans have wanted to take place with the Men's basketball program when he first came aboard?

By the time Wren was hired, basketball practices had already started. About the best Wren could have done was find an interim coach to take Benford's place with the hope none of the current staff walks away. The problem with an interim coach is you basically throw a middle finger to recruiting for an entire season. That interim coach also would have had to make the tough decision whether to keep the same schemes Benford used or go back to the drawing board.

Firing Benford as early as January wouldn't have changed much either besides make a few people happy. Maybe the players would have played a little better but with the same coaching staff at work I doubt much of anything would have changed. If anything, you would have seen some questionable coaching decisions made.

KingDL1 · March 1, 2017

24 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

What kind of action would some fans have wanted to take place with the Men's basketball program when he first came aboard?

By the time Wren was hired, basketball practices had already started. About the best Wren could have done was find an interim coach to take Benford's place with the hope none of the current staff walks away. The problem with an interim coach is you basically throw a middle finger to recruiting for an entire season. That interim coach also would have had to make the tough decision whether to keep the same schemes Benford used or go back to the drawing board.

Firing Benford as early as January wouldn't have changed much either besides make a few people happy. Maybe the players would have played a little better but with the same coaching staff at work I doubt much of anything would have changed. If anything, you would have seen some questionable coaching decisions made.

Wrren was hired in July btw and firing Benford early shows this bad coaching is going to stop an we are not status quo. Also Wren is sitting on lots of old AD people that should have been canned when he was hired. But he will still need to clean house at some point. Saddest part of this is it would not have cost anything really to hand Benford his walking papers, but everyone fans, players, prospects would have seen change in the are if we had canned his ass in mid season.

UNTFan23 · March 1, 2017

Just now, KingDL1 said:

Wrren was hired in July btw and firing Benford early shows this bad coaching is going to stop an we are not status quo. Also Wren is sitting on lots of old AD people that should have been canned when he was hired. But he will still need to clean house at some point. Saddest part of this is it would not have cost anything really to hand Benford his walking papers, but everyone fans, players, prospects would have seen change in the are if we had canned his ass in mid season.

He might have been hired in July but he didn't start working for the university until August.

KingDL1 · March 1, 2017

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

He might have been hired in July but he didn't start working for the university until August.

He was working before the official announcement, he didn't take this kind of job without looking into it first, to see what was needed and what he was walking into.

Army of Dad · March 1, 2017

38 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

The problem with an interim coach is you basically throw a middle finger to recruiting for an entire season.

This is a poor argument. Recruiting done by a coach/staff in the final season of his contract is essentially the same thing as having an interim coach doing the recruiting.

UNTFan23 · March 1, 2017

Just now, KingDL1 said:

He was working before the official announcement, he didn't take this kind of job without looking into it first, to see what was needed and what he was walking into.

Researching your new job isn't the same as logging hours for your new employer. I doubt anyone on this message board has actually done any work for a new employer before their official hire date.

Army of Dad · March 1, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

Researching your new job isn't the same as logging hours for your new employer. I doubt anyone on this message board has actually done any work for a new employer before their official hire date.

And how many of them were VP level or higher?

UNTFan23 · March 1, 2017

9 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

And how many of them were VP level or higher?

How many of whom were VP or higher?

I guess if someone was a VP type individual it would be built into their employment agreement that they'd be paid the moment they accept the offer and started whatever work they were going to start on for their new employer.

Edited March 1, 2017 by UNTFan23

UNTLifer · March 1, 2017

Well, I was hired in to a position in Houston 12 years ago with the idea that some of the staff under me would need to be replaced. I was told by my boss to not make immediate moves but to evaluate each position and put together a plan. Point being, sometimes a change from above can change some of the performances below. Rash decisions are not always the best. The way I look at this situation is that the Benford mess was dumped in Baker's lap. RV wouldn't fire Benford because it would have equaled him admitting that another one of his hires had failed, so it got passed along to Baker. There were probably bigger fish to fry on Baker's plate when he arrived here, and who knows what was said about Benford. Some might have sided with Benford and said that RV made it difficult on him to succeed. Just a guess, but if that is true, that could have led to Baker's comment about evaluating after the season. Either way, Benford failed the test and hopefully this time next year we are bragging about the turn around and preparing for the conference tournament.

KRAM1 · March 1, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Well, I was hired in to a position in Houston 12 years ago with the idea that some of the staff under me would need to be replaced. I was told by my boss to not make immediate moves but to evaluate each position and put together a plan. Point being, sometimes a change from above can change some of the performances below. Rash decisions are not always the best. The way I look at this situation is that the Benford mess was dumped in Baker's lap. RV wouldn't fire Benford because it would have equaled him admitting that another one of his hires had failed, so it got passed along to Baker. There were probably bigger fish to fry on Baker's plate when he arrived here, and who knows what was said about Benford. Some might have sided with Benford and said that RV made it difficult on him to succeed. Just a guess, but if that is true, that could have led to Baker's comment about evaluating after the season. Either way, Benford failed the test and hopefully this time next year we are bragging about the turn around and preparing for the conference tournament.

EXACTLY what I did when I was named President of the bank. I was "told" by others who was "good" and who needed to be "immediately replaced" by a few of the folks who hired me. However, they said it was my call. So, wanting to make my own opinions and knowing that some folks work differently when "new management" arrives, I waited and watched and counseled and let everyone know what I expected of them under "my watch". I told them I would not micromanage their every move, but that we would "talk" should I think the situation required a "conversation". Low and behold...we went from an under performing bank to a bank rated quite highly against its peers. No, not overnight, but we made steady progress. And, I ended up keeping every employee I was told was going to pull us down and I let go a couple I was told were in our top tier of employees. You see, I learned long ago that when looking in from the outside with no responsibility for success or failure, it is very easy to criticize other people and to belittle their decisions. It is quite another to be "the guy" who will "win or lose" with the hand they build for themselves.

Personally, and only personally, I have absolutely no problems with the way Wren is going about the evaluation process and I see lots of positives since he took the reigns of the athletic department. Folks do realize that there is a hiring freeze on, right? If the employee is to be paid with state funds, they cannot be hired at the moment. No indication of when the freeze will be lifted at this point either.

Everyone gets to run their ship as they see fit until the time they do not! In the same vein, if fans feel they have had enough, well, they are entitled to do as they feel best for them. Not anyone else's call here...for the AD or for the fans. Those of us who will remain on the Good Ship Mean Green, will see first hand where it goes and how long it takes....some of us have been waiting for a lot of years to see "how long it takes" and that time hasn't arrived yet. Just hope Wren Baker and Dr. Smatresk will keep the promise to move us toward Tier One status in BOTH Academics AND Athletics. Just hope I live that long...can't quit now...been at it too long to abandon ship now.

KingDL1 · March 1, 2017

4 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Researching your new job isn't the same as logging hours for your new employer. I doubt anyone on this message board has actually done any work for a new employer before their official hire date.

In situations like this it is common place. You don't seem to think much of the people on this board.

Do you think as Litrell was working the final details of his agreement with UNT he was not already working on a short list of assistant coaches he might be able to bring? Making phone calls even before the official announcement of his hire?

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Well, I was hired in to a position in Houston 12 years ago with the idea that some of the staff under me would need to be replaced. I was told by my boss to not make immediate moves but to evaluate each position and put together a plan. Point being, sometimes a change from above can change some of the performances below. Rash decisions are not always the best. The way I look at this situation is that the Benford mess was dumped in Baker's lap. RV wouldn't fire Benford because it would have equaled him admitting that another one of his hires had failed, so it got passed along to Baker. There were probably bigger fish to fry on Baker's plate when he arrived here, and who knows what was said about Benford. Some might have sided with Benford and said that RV made it difficult on him to succeed. Just a guess, but if that is true, that could have led to Baker's comment about evaluating after the season. Either way, Benford failed the test and hopefully this time next year we are bragging about the turn around and preparing for the conference tournament.

Not really arguing just have not seen any movement at 7+ months in. I think Wren was stuck with Benford no matter what, no time to replace and no money to it at that moment. But what personnel movements have we seen in the AD? Wren brought in his folks, and I like them. I just wanted to see more action by now. I would liked to have seen Benford cut about 6-8 weeks ago to to make a statement, to make it clear to all concerned that things were changing.