Did Seth Have To Good Of A First Season?

[El Paso Eagle]

I am more than happy with Seth’s first year. Our on the field performance was greater than almost anyone would have expected, even hoped to have had.

The Mean Green Nation was pumped!

Since then there has been a tremendous amount of questioning his recruiting and the way he chooses his assistants. Yes, everyone is entitled to their comments, but shouldn't he be given a little benefit of the doubt and given a little more credit. We will not build a long-lasting foundation "over-night" (and I don't care about other schools). Now there are even some questioning if he deserves an extension.

 

P.S. It looks like Wren is enjoying the same criticisms. 

 

[Matt from A700]

He did not have a good enough season to warrant a contract extension, in my opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mac also win 5 games the year after he took over Dodge's last 1-11 team?

[BillySee58]

28 minutes ago, Matt from A700 said:

He did not have a good enough season to warrant a contract extension, in my opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mac also win 5 games the year after he took over Dodge's last 1-11 team?

You're not wrong that Mac won 5 games his first year here, but the team he inherited went 3-9 the season before. Although they only had 1 win when Dodge was fired mid season.

[BTG_Fan1]

37 minutes ago, Matt from A700 said:

He did not have a good enough season to warrant a contract extension, in my opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mac also win 5 games the year after he took over Dodge's last 1-11 team?

The contract was basically a 1 year extension... and judging with what he was done with a team that was 1-11 and got destroyed by Portland State, with only 65 scholarship players...

SL had 3 assisants go to P5 schools, and he could really say 4 if since KP was here when SL was right b4 Tech took him from us.

We can be disappointed with the recruits but some of them filled and should fill critical roles for us.. Jenkins, Muhammad/Dee, Rico/WIlson/Guyton, Fine, Ham-bone among others.

People may not like it, but this is how college football is with coaches getting contracts and lengths of deals that people question. I'm sure with them redoing the entire doing his contract it was part to do with RV somehow messing it up, and to improve the payout to SL in Salary, and buyout for if he leaves.

I'm sure that SL has been told and knows that WB and NS are willing to invest in the program, with him going for the IPF tour and the recruiting budget not having anything denied yet(according to WB). Everyone wants to question SL but if he had told you we would be in the HoD bowl playing in OT vs a top 5 defense all of us would have taken it in a heat beat.

But did SL deserve it, yes. He has put a lot of energy and gotten people talking about the program. UNT was one of the most improved teams in the nation, and we can be mad about the ranking of the class, but SL has a system that works and has worked. The only difference between his previous stops and UNT is that those were P5 jobs that could land a 3* over UNT easy. We just have to keep up the positive signs and he has so far. We can question the hires, but he hired what seems to be 2 solid recruiters on the defensive-side to replace Ek and Leb, with the OL coach being someone who is a solid coach but some baggage. Let us see what these guys can do first before we judge them, because we judged this team before the season and no one honestly thought HoD was possible.

[Matt from A700]

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

You're not wrong that Mac won 5 games his first year here, but the team he inherited went 3-9 the season before. Although they only had 1 win when Dodge was fired mid season.

Alright, I was close. I wasn't a student until 2014.

42 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The contract was basically a 1 year extension... and judging with what he was done with a team that was 1-11 and got destroyed by Portland State, with only 65 scholarship players...

SL had 3 assisants go to P5 schools, and he could really say 4 if since KP was here when SL was right b4 Tech took him from us.

We can be disappointed with the recruits but some of them filled and should fill critical roles for us.. Jenkins, Muhammad/Dee, Rico/WIlson/Guyton, Fine, Ham-bone among others.

People may not like it, but this is how college football is with coaches getting contracts and lengths of deals that people question. I'm sure with them redoing the entire doing his contract it was part to do with RV somehow messing it up, and to improve the payout to SL in Salary, and buyout for if he leaves.

I'm sure that SL has been told and knows that WB and NS are willing to invest in the program, with him going for the IPF tour and the recruiting budget not having anything denied yet(according to WB). Everyone wants to question SL but if he had told you we would be in the HoD bowl playing in OT vs a top 5 defense all of us would have taken it in a heat beat.

But did SL deserve it, yes. He has put a lot of energy and gotten people talking about the program. UNT was one of the most improved teams in the nation, and we can be mad about the ranking of the class, but SL has a system that works and has worked. The only difference between his previous stops and UNT is that those were P5 jobs that could land a 3* over UNT easy. We just have to keep up the positive signs and he has so far. We can question the hires, but he hired what seems to be 2 solid recruiters on the defensive-side to replace Ek and Leb, with the OL coach being someone who is a solid coach but some baggage. Let us see what these guys can do first before we judge them, because we judged this team before the season and no one honestly thought HoD was possible.

I am super appreciative of what Saint Littrell has done so far. But I would at least waited one more year to give leniency for progression or a regression. I would be disappointed if we didn't at least win seven regular season games this fall.

[BTG_Fan1]

2 minutes ago, Matt from A700 said:

I am super appreciative of what Saint Littrell has done so far. But I would at least waited one more year to give leniency for progression or a regression. I would be disappointed if we didn't at least win seven regular season games this fall.

I agree, but it was rumored that some bigger school came talking.. which I don't get because it wasn't like we made huge strides but that was rumored.

Also, I think WB saw with the # of assisants leaving he know SL could be next. This likely gave SL more $ upfront instead of through bonuses with UNT likely getting a bit more of a buyout. Also, college coaches have very long contracts with them getting extensions often

[GrandGreen]

34 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The contract was basically a 1 year extension... and judging with what he was done with a team that was 1-11 and got destroyed by Portland State, with only 65 scholarship players...

SL had 3 assisants go to P5 schools, and he could really say 4 if since KP was here when SL was right b4 Tech took him from us.

We can be disappointed with the recruits but some of them filled and should fill critical roles for us.. Jenkins, Muhammad/Dee, Rico/WIlson/Guyton, Fine, Ham-bone among others.

People may not like it, but this is how college football is with coaches getting contracts and lengths of deals that people question. I'm sure with them redoing the entire doing his contract it was part to do with RV somehow messing it up, and to improve the payout to SL in Salary, and buyout for if he leaves.

I'm sure that SL has been told and knows that WB and NS are willing to invest in the program, with him going for the IPF tour and the recruiting budget not having anything denied yet(according to WB). Everyone wants to question SL but if he had told you we would be in the HoD bowl playing in OT vs a top 5 defense all of us would have taken it in a heat beat.

But did SL deserve it, yes. He has put a lot of energy and gotten people talking about the program. UNT was one of the most improved teams in the nation, and we can be mad about the ranking of the class, but SL has a system that works and has worked. The only difference between his previous stops and UNT is that those were P5 jobs that could land a 3* over UNT easy. We just have to keep up the positive signs and he has so far. We can question the hires, but he hired what seems to be 2 solid recruiters on the defensive-side to replace Ek and Leb, with the OL coach being someone who is a solid coach but some baggage. Let us see what these guys can do first before we judge them, because we judged this team before the season and no one honestly thought HoD was possible.

Excuse me, for a rather detailed response.  By addressing your comments: I am offering a little support for a counter view.  

Number 1, when you run players off; you are making the decision that the program is better off without them.  Not sure how many players were encouraged to go somewhere, but I suspect it was significant.    So part of the low ship numbers can be traced back to McCarney, but not all. 

The assistant coach turnover had absolutely nothing to do with Littrell's contract.  

My guess is that RV had little to do with Littrell's contract. 

I am very happy NT got a very attractive bowl bid, but no one can deny they limbed into it.  

Are you positive, that Littrell has a system that works.   This is his first hc job, so there is not a lot of evidence that his system does work.  Frankly, I didn't see an offense that is going to scare anybody.   Now, I also think that he is yet to fully implement his offense due to the lack of the type of athletes he needs to run it.  

Your added comment about a bigger school looking at Littrell.   I assume you mean a school that can pay a lot more than NT.   If that happens it happens, and maybe this is a factor.  Not that a higher salary is going to scare off a P5 school but NT could be protecting itself more with a significantly higher buyout.  

Count me encouraged by Littrell's first year on the field despite the basic collapse in the last half of the regular season.   However, I was also very discouraged by NT's poor recruiting.   I would also expect a hc even if he is only paid $800k a year to put lot of energy into the program.   His career to a large extent will depend on what he accomplishes at NT in the next few years.  

On the surface, I think re-structuring the contract was premature.   You are correct it is only a one year extension with an increase of some amount for the duration of the contract.   There may be obviously advantages gained by NT with the new contract.  If those exists, it is just unusual that they were not reported.   Instead the only thing released is the desire to have the NT head football coach among the highest in the conference, which is only important when NT hires the next coach.  

 

[BTG_Fan1]

7 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Excuse me, for a rather detailed response.  By addressing your comments: I am offering a little support for a counter view.  

Number 1, when you run players off; you are making the decision that the program is better off without them.  Not sure how many players were encouraged to go somewhere, but I suspect it was significant.    So part of the low ship numbers can be traced back to McCarney, but not all. 

The assistant coach turnover had absolutely nothing to do with Littrell's contract.  

My guess is that RV had little to do with Littrell's contract. 

I am very happy NT got a very attractive bowl bid, but no one can deny they limbed into it.  

Are you positive, that Littrell has a system that works.   This is his first hc job, so there is not a lot of evidence that his system does work.  Frankly, I didn't see an offense that is going to scare anybody.   Now, I also think that he is yet to fully implement his offense due to the lack of the type of athletes he needs to run it.  

Your added comment about a bigger school looking at Littrell.   I assume you mean a school that can pay a lot more than NT.   If that happens it happens, and maybe this is a factor.  Not that a higher salary is going to scare off a P5 school but NT could be protecting itself more with a significantly higher buyout.  

Count me encouraged by Littrell's first year on the field despite the basic collapse in the last half of the regular season.   However, I was also very discouraged by NT's poor recruiting.   I would also expect a hc even if he is only paid $800k a year to put lot of energy into the program.   His career to a large extent will depend on what he accomplishes at NT in the next few years.  

On the surface, I think re-structuring the contract was premature.   You are correct it is only a one year extension with an increase of some amount for the duration of the contract.   There may be obviously advantages gained by NT with the new contract.  If those exists, it is just unusual that they were not reported.   Instead the only thing released is the desire to have the NT head football coach among the highest in the conference, which is only important when NT hires the next coach.  

 

The players named are replacing Srs. that left like Gray, Combs, TT/Buyers, Morris, etc.

I'm assuming it didn't either but everyone seems to think that SL either had taken a paycut or took a paycut now to increase the assistant coach pool. To me that doesn't make sense, but that is what people have been saying on here.

And I do agree RV, and I think everyone would likely agree that RV probably did something in the contract and no would deny that we limbed into the bowl game going something like 1-5 down the strech

But this system does work, we saw it at times, with Morris vs Army, or Fine vs Marshall and MTSU and i'm sure we had other flashes. But SL system works, its just now on GH to execute it.

I do agree that a bigger p5 wouldn't be scared off by the salary, but I'm assuming with SL getting a higher salary UNT wanted a higher buyout in return.

I would also assume that in the next week or so, Vito will have more information about the deal. But I believe SL was already one of the top C-USA coaches

[GOMG2013]

OK, Litrell is an offensive guru, and it's gonna take a while to get the pieces to truly judge his system.  How long are we supposed to give him?  Maybe it's just me, but it dosent seem like we have the QB of the future settled...

What's been quietly forgotten is the whole picking Morris to run the offense and a true freshman beating out his top guy. And he did it by running.  Not throwing.  It had a Greer feel to it and thanks to Fine's heart, he made some big plays.  I didn't see great coaching.  I saw Fine play with heart.  I guess Litrell gets credit for putting in a faster QB.  Littrel still has to be able to have an eye for QB talent if this is going to work.

And if we were going to wind up playing a running QB, wonder how demarcus smith would have looked with another year and development.  I guess they didnt see anything they could develop.

[outoftown]

22 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I agree, but it was rumored that some bigger school came talking.. which I don't get because it wasn't like we made huge strides but that was rumored.

Also, I think WB saw with the # of assisants leaving he know SL could be next. This likely gave SL more $ upfront instead of through bonuses with UNT likely getting a bit more of a buyout. Also, college coaches have very long contracts with them getting extensions often

Well, if some bigger school came at this point, and bought out 4 years now, after one season with a 5-8 record... let them. That money would offset the Mac and RV contract buyouts and allow WB to hire his own coach with great conditions and a good assistant salary pool.

[JesseMartin]

1 hour ago, outoftown said:

Well, if some bigger school came at this point, and bought out 4 years now, after one season with a 5-8 record... let them. That money would offset the Mac and RV contract buyouts and allow WB to hire his own coach with great conditions and a good assistant salary pool.

Very true...but also...if we have somebody that a P5 is interested in, would we want to roll the dice and let him go? Isn't that how we lost Hayden Fry?

Edited February 26, 2017 by JesseMartin

[TheWestie]

Too*













Sorry couldn't help it. This ain't Pony Fans.

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, JesseMartin said:

Very true...but also...if we have somebody that a P5 is interested in, would we want to roll the dice and let him go? Isn't that how we lost Hayden Fry?

Fry left because of lack of support from both the school and fan base.   I actually think that the administration was happy to get rid of him.   Spend too much money and was too flamboyant for their taste.   I really don't think NT at that time knew how hard it was to win.    Rust was fired after a couple of bad years, but prior to that NT both Mitchell and Rust were very successful coaches.  Now, it is forty something years latter and NT has never really came close to that period in football.    

 

[MeanGreen13]

In a word, no. He did get an extra year on his contract, but it appears that there might have been an agreement for him to take less initially. I think it has something to do with the whole RV and Mac still receiving their pay checks thing. I expect to see that he will have a somewhat larger paycheck while maintaining or improving the assistant pool. 

[GTWT]

9 hours ago, TheWestie said:

Too*













Sorry couldn't help it. This ain't Pony Fans.

Two true.

[Army of Dad]

1 hour ago, MeanGreen13 said:

I think it has something to do with the whole RV and Mac still receiving their pay checks thing.

I don't think so since I think both of them will still be getting paid next year too.