Facilities tour by Leadership

[Mean Green 93-98]

Rick, I get where you're coming from.  But I think it is good stewardship in this situation, once you have an idea of what you're looking for, to look as closely as possible at the facilities most closely comparing to what we hope to build.   See how it looks in person, learn from those people what their unforeseen problems were, see how the facilities they chose meet/don't meet their needs, etc.  When you're talking about a $10 million or so facility, $10k of research that provides any real insight and helps to avoid any pitfalls is money well spent.

And I say this as one who generally opposes the concept of IPFs.  But I don't like getting left behind, either.

[UNT Mean Green]

4 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

I never said it wasn't encouraging and I'm not being critical.  I'm pointing out an unnecessary expense regardless of who is footing the bill.  

This department has been poor stewards of other people's money for years.  Our audit last year showed just how badly this department had been run into the ground and how wasteful it was with resources...resources paid for mostly from the pockets of our students.  I'm simply pointing out what looks to me as another unneeded expense ok'd by the same group running things the previous 15 years.  

And isn't it funny...the same group of enabling, RV-stroking rubes here on gmg that criticized the few of us for pointing out such things the previous 15 years...are the same ones questioning me today.

Again....I want us to have an IPF also.  I just hope we're smart about it.  

 

Rick

Obviously there are varying views and opinions on this trip. Again, it was clearly well thought out and it's awesome that a generous donor donated the time and expense of their family's airplane to help facilitate a trip in two days that may have taken a week flying around the country on American Airlines. I'd look at this as more in line with "big time", and in the same connotation, "that if we are going to be like a Boise State, it's time to start acting like it."

Looks like a strong step forward by the President and new Athletic Department leadership in my book. 

I'm sure this due diligence was done to get ideas on the newest indoor practice facilities and athletics operations facilities to help UNT get the "best bang for the buck" for this campaign. 

[FirefightnRick]

35 minutes ago, UNT Mean Green said:

Obviously there are varying views and opinions on this trip. Again, it was clearly well thought out and it's awesome that a generous donor donated the time and expense of their family's airplane to help facilitate a trip in two days that may have taken a week flying around the country on American Airlines. I'd look at this as more in line with "big time", and in the same connotation, "that if we are going to be like a Boise State, it's time to start acting like it."

Looks like a strong step forward by the President and new Athletic Department leadership in my book. 

I'm sure this due diligence was done to get ideas on the newest indoor practice facilities and athletics operations facilities to help UNT get the "best bang for the buck" for this campaign. 

After the audit last September proved that donor time and money had been so foolishly wasted I wouldn't have allowed the gentleman to spend another dime on this program, flying me around for something I could have driven to see myself....until I could prove to him that once and for all his future investments will be applied frugally and with accountability in mind.  

But that's just me.

 

Rick 

[TreeFiddy]

There is some serious trolling going on in this thread. 

 

[Green P1]

Why even have the Model A if they're not going to use it for simple trips like this?

WTF??

[KRAM1]

Come on...why would anyone want to go anywhere except by pony express?  You know, you can reach the county seat in one days ride.  No need to look anywhere else except where you can get one day on horseback.  You know, anything worth looking at is within a day's horseback ride.  Damn enablers!  

[Aquila_Viridis]

I have no issue with the leadership acting like the leaders of one of the nation's largest universities. If anything I'd expect people to be encouraged that they're not doing the usual small-time thing. Maybe it reflects a dramatic change in mindset, and that would be awesome.

[mgfan]

Are people seriously complaing that are leaders are flying around to look at facilities so we get the best ideas when we upgrade our own?!  wtf!  This crap gets old. 

[FirefightnRick]

3 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

why would anyone want to go anywhere except by pony ......?  

?

 

 

Rick

Edited February 22, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[KRAM1]

7 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

?

 

 

Rick

I believe that is a horse not a pony. Most Texans know the difference.

[Eagle-96]

22 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Pssht!  Jerry Jones just built one in Frisco about 30-35 minutes East.  They couldn't have just driven over there and asked him a question or two?

The other thing I find laughable is that they have to spend money to go look at these things in person...as if none of them has ever seen one or been inside of one before.  Like they are a busload of Japanese tourists. 

Pointless.  Littrell and Baker have surely been in a dozen of these facilities before.  It isn't rocket science.  It's a little building, usually shaped like a small airplane hanger, with a football field and some office inside, perhaps a weight room.  These things are not earth-shattering pieces of architecture and engineering. 

And, to Lifer's point, I was within a ball hair of just posting a picture of Bear Bryant at the thought of a Texas football school wanting to shield it's team from the heat.  

It's things like this that convince me we are not evolving or adapting.  Far from.  Our grandfathers, grandmothers, and great grandfathers, and great grandmothers toiled in the sun on farms scratching out existences and feeding the nation.  And, they did it in the blistering heat, the withering wind, a through piles of snow, harvesting crops and tending to livestock, 365 days a year - no vacations, no sick days, no pension, no health care benefits, and no minimum wage.

But, here we are just four or so decades removed from it, and we're trying to prevent football players - not ballet dancers, football players - from having the sun touch their skin for too long and to keep them from being in the heat for an hour or two.

I'm here to tell you that my ancestors who lived into their 80s and 90s in spite of their "hard living" conditions will likely outlive most of this cupcakey generation of Americans.

Pete's pepper!  I'll bet Bear didn't even give the Junction Boys any sun screen!

 

Yeah and back then they thought football players were punks for coming out of a game for a little ole concussion. Or how weak players were for having a heat stroke and dying. By gum they weren't cancelling practice for some stupid lightning. Bunch of pansies. 

 

TIMES HAVE CHANGED! This is not that hard to understand. 

 

We should be in the business of providing all of our athletes with the VERY BEST facilities they can have. AND providing our athletes with the safest way to play as well. If we expect to have the best teams then we should have the best training facilities. The IPF will have a number of benefits for all of our programs as it will be used for all sports.

 

1. Allow all teams to practice during lightning, rain, snow, ice, wind, heat, and cold.

2. Allow for additional weight rooms and training areas for Olympic sports.

3. Add newer office space for coaches.

4. Allow for additional classroom/tutoring space for student athletes.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Eagle-96

[MeanGreenTexan]

18 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

...

1. Allow all teams to practice during lightning, rain, snow, ice, wind, heat, and cold.

2. Allow for additional weight rooms and training areas for Olympic sports.

3. Add newer office space for coaches.

4. Allow for additional classroom/tutoring space for student athletes.

 

Right now, Littrell's very nice office overlooks Apogee Stadium.  Why would he want to move?

[GreenN'walinsVet]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Right now, Littrell's very nice office overlooks Apogee Stadium.  Why would he want to move?

Have zero info, but maybe they are looking to incorporate the offices into the IPF to allow more room in the Athletic Center, for Team Meeting Rooms, expansion of weight room, etc...

[VideoEagle]

Nothing beats visiting a facility personally and talking to the people who work there in person. It gives a chance to get honest assessments from the people who use the facility on what they like, don't like and what they would do differently if they could do it all over again. While you can do a limited amount of that on the phone or via email, doing it in person will get more accurate information. Visiting other college facilities lets them talk to college level people about college level problems which are clearly different than those faced by high schools. 

The status of the people who toured also shows this donor and other potential donors that NT is serious about both making upgrades and making the best choices available with the resources available. The highest university officials are directly involved in a very public way. That doesn't happen with phone calls, emails or brief car trips. 

[Cr1028]

22 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Nothing beats visiting a facility personally and talking to the people who work there in person. It gives a chance to get honest assessments from the people who use the facility on what they like, don't like and what they would do differently if they could do it all over again. While you can do a limited amount of that on the phone or via email, doing it in person will get more accurate information. Visiting other college facilities lets them talk to college level people about college level problems which are clearly different than those faced by high schools. 

The status of the people who toured also shows this donor and other potential donors that NT is serious about both making upgrades and making the best choices available with the resources available. The highest university officials are directly involved in a very public way. That doesn't happen with phone calls, emails or brief car trips. 

 

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

2 hours ago, Eagle-96 said:

Yeah and back then they thought football players were punks for coming out of a game for a little ole concussion. Or how weak players were for having a heat stroke and dying. By gum they weren't cancelling practice for some stupid lightning. Bunch of pansies. 

 

TIMES HAVE CHANGED! This is not that hard to understand. 

 

We should be in the business of providing all of our athletes with the VERY BEST facilities they can have. AND providing our athletes with the safest way to play as well. If we expect to have the best teams then we should have the best training facilities. The IPF will have a number of benefits for all of our programs as it will be used for all sports.

 

1. Allow all teams to practice during lightning, rain, snow, ice, wind, heat, and cold.

2. Allow for additional weight rooms and training areas for Olympic sports.

3. Add newer office space for coaches.

4. Allow for additional classroom/tutoring space for student athletes.

 

List the number of UNT football players - or, players from any other outside sport such as softball, soccer, tennis, or track and field - who have died from heat stroke, either in practice or competition.  It's a completely false argument.

The sun will be hot in September; no amount of indoor facilities will change that on game day.

All of the things on your final list have either been updated and added without an indoor facility.  This is just another space with more of the same stuff, and using money we could spend on better coaches. If they want more, they can build more without building an airplane hanger with a football field inside of it.

It's a plaything to say, "Look!  Now we have one, too!"  There is no competitive advantage to having one; especially in a part of the country where inclement weather is rarely a factor. 

If indoor practice facilities made a real difference, it would be Syracuse winning national title after national title.  They've been practicing indoors since 1980.  They have three winning seasons in the past 14...and zero national titles. 

We will take our lowly rated recruiting classes and coddle them from the elements one or two days out of the year...with coaches we can't afford to keep longer than a season or two if they turn out to be half decent.  It would be laughable if it weren't reality.

Edited February 22, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[MeanGreen_MBA]

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

List the number of UNT football players - or, players from any other outside sport such as softball, soccer, tennis, or track and field - who have died from heat stroke, either in practice or competition.  It's a completely false argument.

The sun will be hot in September; no amount of indoor facilities will change that on game day.

All of the things on your final list have either been updated and added without an indoor facility.  This is just another space with more of the same stuff, and using money we could spend on better coaches. If they want more, they can build more without building an airplane hanger with a football field inside of it.

It's a plaything to say, "Look!  Now we have one, too!"  There is no competitive advantage to having one; especially in a part of the country where inclement weather is rarely a factor. 

If indoor practice facilities made a real difference, it would be Syracuse winning national title after national title.  They've been practicing indoors since 1980.  They have three winning seasons in the past 14...and zero national titles. 

We will take our lowly rated recruiting classes and coddle them from the elements one or two days out of the year...with coaches we can't afford to keep longer than a season or two if they turn out to be half decent.  It would be laughable if it weren't reality.

Then I guess ALL Pro/College/HS AD's have it wrong and you have it right...no difference.  better facilities attract better coaches and players.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Then I guess ALL Pro/College/HS AD's have it wrong and you have it right...no difference.  better facilities attract better coaches and players.

Again, if this were the case, Syracuse has done it longer than anyone else, and they struggle to win or hire decent coaches. 

It's strictly a "we have one, too" thing.  

 

 

[meanrob]

1 minute ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Then I guess ALL Pro/College/HS AD's have it wrong and you have it right...no difference.  better facilities attract better coaches and players.

That's a simplistic view. Otherwise Kansas State wouldn't be beating up on Texas like they have the past few years. Or Boise beating any of the teams it has beaten. 

Facilities are nice but leadership, decision-making, and coaching are better. 

I'm not getting too worked up about the former until the latter is shown to be improved. 

 

[BTG_Fan1]

IPF is just something to be like the other big boys, and it is another sale to recruits, and increases the ability for different events to be held at UNT.

Another thing, is that it will take the stress that the heat puts on these guys and allow them to practice once outside then once indoors, with them not practicing super early or super late at night.

While UNT hasn't had any heat deaths, why would discount it happening when it has happened all over the US...

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

3 minutes ago, meanrob said:

That's a simplistic view. Otherwise Kansas State wouldn't be beating up on Texas like they have the past few years. Or Boise beating any of the teams it has beaten. 

Facilities are nice but leadership, decision-making, and coaching are better. 

I'm not getting too worked up about the former until the latter is shown to be improved. 

 

Thank you.

Also, once it's built, it changes nothing competitively - otherwise, every school that already had one would be winning more.  There is no evidence of that anywhere.  Kansas State owning the Longhorns is a great example.

At the end of the day, the nine to 11 guys on the offensive and defensive line have to stick their hands on the ground and get the play rolling, every play.  No amount of practicing indoors changes that.  Never has, never will.

There are plenty of airplane hangers - along with indoor facilities already within two hours drive of the UNT campus.  They didn't need to fly up to Liberty to look at their version of airplane hanger football field. 

We're scraping the bottom of the barrel for football coaches, yet people are getting wood about an indoor football field in a city where inclement weather effect the football team about zero to two times per year!

 

[Eagle-96]

13 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

List the number of UNT football players - or, players from any other outside sport such as softball, soccer, tennis, or track and field - who have died from heat stroke, either in practice or competition.  It's a completely false argument.

The sun will be hot in September; no amount of indoor facilities will change that on game day.

All of the things on your final list have either been updated and added without an indoor facility.  This is just another space with more of the same stuff, and using money we could spend on better coaches. If they want more, they can build more without building an airplane hanger with a football field inside of it.

It's a plaything to say, "Look!  Now we have one, too!"  There is no competitive advantage to having one; especially in a part of the country where inclement weather is rarely a factor. 

If indoor practice facilities made a real difference, it would be Syracuse winning national title after national title.  They've been practicing indoors since 1980.  They have three winning seasons in the past 14...and zero national titles. 

We will take our lowly rated recruiting classes and coddle them from the elements one or two days out of the year...with coaches we can't afford to keep longer than a season or two if they turn out to be half decent.  It would be laughable if it weren't reality.

Coddling? False argument? Really?

An average of three football players die every year from heat related causes. ONE is too many. Not sure why you choose to ignore athlete safety.

No UNT football players have ever died from a concussion so let's just stop practicing with helmets at all. 

No heat stroke deaths. Lets just stop water breaks. Hell, lets stop ALL breaks. Just practice balls out for 2-3 hours at a time. If a player passes out then let's dog-pile them to teach them a lesson. Better yet. Email, text, tweet, call any of the coaches(any sport) and ask them how important an IPF can be to all of the programs at UNT. ALL teams can practice indoors during:

Rain

Lightning

Hail

Heat

Wind

Snow

Ice

Muddy fields

 

Olympic sports coaches that have $hit offices and locker facilities will get an upgrade.(Ever wonder why coaches leave at their first opportunity?)

Additional weight room space will be available so that ALL of our athletes can train.

Additional classroom/tutoring space will be available so that ALL of our athletes can get a quality education and the help they need to succeed.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

20 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

IPF is just something to be like the other big boys, and it is another sale to recruits, and increases the ability for different events to be held at UNT.

Another thing, is that it will take the stress that the heat puts on these guys and allow them to practice once outside then once indoors, with them not practicing super early or super late at night.

While UNT hasn't had any heat deaths, why would discount it happening when it has happened all over the US...

You answer your own question:  because they haven't been any, it looks as thought the strength staffs, the training staffs, and coaching staffs understand how to keep the players properly hydrated.

Also, it isn't happening "all over the U.S.," nor has it ever happened "all over the U.S."  It rarely happens anywhere in U.S., even in the hottest areas of the U.S.

9 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

Coddling? False argument? Really?

An average of three football players die every year from heat related causes. ONE is too many. Not sure why you choose to ignore athlete safety.

No UNT football players have ever died from a concussion so let's just stop practicing with helmets at all. 

No heat stroke deaths. Lets just stop water breaks. Hell, lets stop ALL breaks. Just practice balls out for 2-3 hours at a time. If a player passes out then let's dog-pile them to teach them a lesson. Better yet. Email, text, tweet, call any of the coaches(any sport) and ask them how important an IPF can be to all of the programs at UNT. ALL teams can practice indoors during:

Rain

Lightning

Hail

Heat

Wind

Snow

Ice

Muddy fields

 

Olympic sports coaches that have $hit offices and locker facilities will get an upgrade.(Ever wonder why coaches leave at their first opportunity?)

Additional weight room space will be available so that ALL of our athletes can train.

Additional classroom/tutoring space will be available so that ALL of our athletes can get a quality education and the help they need to succeed.

Football players also die and/or are paralyzed actually playing in football games each season.  So, do we switch the game to flag?

And, again, any and all of those facilities for coaches and teams can be built without an airplane hanger football field attached to them.

Football is played with helmets and outside; so, your helmet argument makes no sense.  Your - and, other posters' - argument is that there is somehow an epidemic of strokes and deaths from athletes practicing outdoors.  There isn't.  Nor has there ever been.

It is what it is:  "We have one, too!"  Big deal. 

If everyone has one, you are still simply back to where you began:  coaches and players. 

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[BTG_Fan1]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

You answer your own question:  because they haven't been any, it looks as thought the strength staffs, the training staffs, and coaching staffs understand how to keep the players properly hydrated.

Also, it isn't happening "all over the U.S.," nor has it ever happened "all over the U.S."  It rarely happens anywhere in U.S., even in the hottest areas of the U.S.

Every year we hear about players dying if its a HS kid here in TX or some other state. Heck it has happened with the Minnesota Vikings, and that is a professional team with more resources. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't ever happen.

Once someone gets a heat injury, they are more likely to suffer it again.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Every year we hear about players dying if its a HS kid here in TX or some other state. Heck it has happened with the Minnesota Vikings, and that is a professional team with more resources. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't ever happen.

Once someone gets a heat injury, they are more likely to suffer it again.

And, if this really were such an epidemic - it's not - why aren't all football stadiums domed and air conditioned?

Edited February 22, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox