DRC source: Former Guyer, ASU WR has interest in UNT

Greenrex · February 17, 2017

Can a coach ask a player such as in this case, to come for a visit and during the visit ask the player to "run out for a few passes" or whatever, before offering a scholarship?
(don't laugh, I really don't know!)

meanrob · February 17, 2017

1 hour ago, gangrene said:

I don't get all the negativity and debating on whether we should accept him. The kid should be applauded for earning his degree and staying out of trouble. I, for one, would welcome him to UNT, even if it means giving up a scholarship. So he hasn't had a great college career thus far? Guess what? Neither has any of our current class of HS recruits. And, without being too negative myself, this was one of the least impressive recruiting classes I've seen.

If he comes to play at UNT and has a big season, that's great. If he comes to play at UNT and stands on the sideline, that's still great. Why? We let a hometown kid come home to UNT and finish out his college football career. And we can use all the UNT ambassadors we can get, in respect to Denton ISD, and other area school districts.

WTF

Aldo · February 17, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Right. I don't think the expectation should be All-conference or bust.

But this stat line simply will not do, and is nowhere near worthy of using a scholarship:

SEASON REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
2016 2 21 10.5 12 0 0 0 0.0 0 0

Rutherford had nearly that identical stat line just in the HOD Bowl.

(pssst he's 6'5")

Jefferson's production last year was for 11th best on the team, behind many underclassmen.

MeanGreenTexan · February 17, 2017

40 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Exactly. That's what I meant about sitting behind talent on the depth chart. The question then becomes of where "not as good as other WRs on the Arizona State roster" places one on our present WR talent spectrum.

History has shown with previous WR transfers from P5s that the talent on our current roster is apparently much closer to the <XYZ P5 team's> talent than we might think. As we've not had much luck with any of them after their lack of production on their former teams.

All About UNT · February 17, 2017

1 minute ago, meanrob said:

WTF

No dude. We should just send out free scholarships to any Denton high school player. I'm sorry you don't see it. It's such a brilliant tactic. We're just North Texas... who are we to ask that an incoming transfer would actually have admirable stats from the program they were at?

MeanGreenTexan · February 17, 2017

5 minutes ago, meanrob said:

WTF

For real. I could not disagree more with any of what was said there. We may as well hand him a trophy when he walks in the door too!! Or, at least a "You're Awesome!" sticker.

forevereagle · February 17, 2017

2 hours ago, southsideguy said:

trice

Trice wasn't a grad transfer, he was here for multiple seasons.

MeanGreenTexan · February 17, 2017

4 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

Trice wasn't a grad transfer, he was here for multiple seasons.

And didn't Trice have an odd circumstance for transferring?
He was a contributor on Special Teams and was seeing PT as a true freshman at OU, I remember that.

Didn't he blow a whistle on practice time going over what was allowed by NCAA rules or something like that? And the flack he received for that was his cause for transfer.

gangrene · February 17, 2017

2 hours ago, All About UNT said:

No dude. We should just send out free scholarships to any Denton high school player. I'm sorry you don't see it. It's such a brilliant tactic. We're just North Texas... who are we to ask that an incoming transfer would actually have admirable stats from the program they were at?

Name one player on our roster who could transfer to any P5 school and immediately start. Why would anyone who has "admirable stats" from a P5 school transfer to UNT or any other CUSA school? I'll answer it for you - he wouldn't. Unless there are family medical reasons, behavior/disciplinary issues or, as appears to be the case here, playing time issues, P5 players aren't looking to transfer to non-P5 schools.

And your comment is asinine...he's not "any Denton high school player" - he’s a 6’5,” 210-pound, former 3-star recruit (Scout's 2013 #82 nationally-ranked WR) that held offers from ASU, Arizona, Baylor, Colorado, Michigan State, Mississippi State, UNT, Tulsa and Vandy. That’s more P5 offers than our entire 2017 class had, combined. But let’s just continue to pound our chest and thumb our noses at him because he only had two catches last season at ASU. We’re North Texas, we’re too good to accept transfers that don’t have stellar P5 college stats.

Gawd, you guys remind why I stopped coming to this forum.

For anyone that’s actually interested in more than Ellis Jefferson stat lines, here’s a nice article about him: ASU's Ellis Jefferson determined to break out of shadows

Mean Green 93-98 · February 17, 2017

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

History has shown with previous WR transfers from P5s that the talent on our current roster is apparently much closer to the <XYZ P5 team's> talent than we might think. As we've not had much luck with any of them after their lack of production on their former teams.

History may serve as a warning, but it doesn't tell us what exactly we have with this player. This player should be assessed on his own merits, not on what Tyler Stradford did or didn't do. You're obviously hardcore against this guy because of our past history and his last year's stat line--fair enough. I'm just willing to say that if the coaches see something beyond those things that lead them to believe he can make a contribution worthy of a scholarship, they should offer him one. If they don't, they shouldn't.

meanrob · February 17, 2017

1 hour ago, gangrene said:

Name one player on our roster who could transfer to any P5 school and immediately start. Why would anyone who has "admirable stats" from a P5 school transfer to UNT or any other CUSA school? I'll answer it for you - he wouldn't. Unless there are family medical reasons, behavior/disciplinary issues or, as appears to be the case here, playing time issues, P5 players aren't looking to transfer to non-P5 schools.

And your comment is asinine...he's not "any Denton high school player" - he’s a 6’5,” 210-pound, former 3-star recruit (Scout's 2013 #82 nationally-ranked WR) that held offers from ASU, Arizona, Baylor, Colorado, Michigan State, Mississippi State, UNT, Tulsa and Vandy. That’s more P5 offers than our entire 2017 class had, combined. But let’s just continue to pound our chest and thumb our noses at him because he only had two catches last season at ASU. We’re North Texas, we’re too good to accept transfers that don’t have stellar P5 college stats.

Gawd, you guys remind why I stopped coming to this forum.

For anyone that’s actually interested in more than Ellis Jefferson stat lines, here’s a nice article about him: ASU's Ellis Jefferson determined to break out of shadows

Name one local player that played for us that significantly improved our attendance. Name one local player that opened up any sort of pipeline to that school. That fallacy has been making the rounds for twenty years and has never bore out once. NOT ONCE.

Transfers have rarely worked out. Does that many we shouldn't take any? No, but it does mean we should be prudent on how many we take and the reason for taking them. Having gone to a local high school isn't one of those reasons, it's not even on the top ten.

I don't care how many stars or accolades someone had in high school. If you can't even break into the rotation at your position at a mid-level P5 for years, there's a reason. Certainly questions to be asked. Giving away scholarships is one of the reasons we are in such dire straits numbers-wise. The idea that we should give away scholarships based on being a local ambassador is preposterous, and more importantly, bad for the program.

Edited February 17, 2017 by meanrob

MeanGreenTexan · February 17, 2017

7 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

History may serve as a warning, but it doesn't tell us what exactly we have with this player. This player should be assessed on his own merits, not on what Tyler Stradford did or didn't do. You're obviously hardcore against this guy because of our past history and his last year's stat line--fair enough. I'm just willing to say that if the coaches see something beyond those things that lead them to believe he can make a contribution worthy of a scholarship, they should offer him one. If they don't, they shouldn't.

That's not true.
Actually, based on what I've been saying, and your last sentence, you and I are in agreement.
My comments are more directed at guys like gangrene, MeanGreen_MBA, Rudy, etc... who are saying that we should absolutely sign this guy simply because he's a P5 transfer who was a 3* in high school.

EDIT: 4-yr-old sitting in my lap hit enter before I was done.

Edited February 17, 2017 by MeanGreenTexan

All About UNT · February 17, 2017

1 hour ago, gangrene said:

Name one player on our roster who could transfer to any P5 school and immediately start. Why would anyone who has "admirable stats" from a P5 school transfer to UNT or any other CUSA school? I'll answer it for you - he wouldn't. Unless there are family medical reasons, behavior/disciplinary issues or, as appears to be the case here, playing time issues, P5 players aren't looking to transfer to non-P5 schools.

And your comment is asinine...he's not "any Denton high school player" - he’s a 6’5,” 210-pound, former 3-star recruit (Scout's 2013 #82 nationally-ranked WR) that held offers from ASU, Arizona, Baylor, Colorado, Michigan State, Mississippi State, UNT, Tulsa and Vandy. That’s more P5 offers than our entire 2017 class had, combined. But let’s just continue to pound our chest and thumb our noses at him because he only had two catches last season at ASU. We’re North Texas, we’re too good to accept transfers that don’t have stellar P5 college stats.

Gawd, you guys remind why I stopped coming to this forum.

For anyone that’s actually interested in more than Ellis Jefferson stat lines, here’s a nice article about him: ASU's Ellis Jefferson determined to break out of shadows

Really? Because someone disagrees with you? Well golly gee I hope your feelings aren't too hurt. As for a rebuttal I think Rob sums it up nicely.

Rudy · February 17, 2017

50 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That's not true.
Actually, based on what I've been saying, and your last sentence, you and I are in agreement.
My comments are more directed at guys like gangrene, MeanGreen_MBA, Rudy, etc... who are saying that we should absolutely sign this guy simply because he's a P5 transfer who was a 3* in high school.

EDIT: 4-yr-old sitting in my lap hit enter before I was done.

No, I'm saying we need to absolutely look at the guy. To automatically blow him off because transfers may not have worked out, he didn't have good enough numbers, or we only have one scholarship left, is asinine.

DeepGreen · February 17, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That's not true.
Actually, based on what I've been saying, and your last sentence, you and I are in agreement.
My comments are more directed at guys like gangrene, MeanGreen_MBA, Rudy, etc... who are saying that we should absolutely sign this guy simply because he's a P5 transfer who was a 3* in high school.

EDIT: 4-yr-old sitting in my lap hit enter before I was done.

:omg: I would start recruiting the 4 year old NOW! Obviously good hands and eye/target(ball) coordination.

BillySee58 · February 18, 2017

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You only get 25 scholarships to hand out each year. Period. Giving one to Jefferson takes one of those. You get to use the same 25 scholarships the following year. You're not backfilling Jefferson, or we would not have the roster problem we have now... we would just backfill everyone who's eligibility is up. That's not the way it works.

And with Dodge taking JUCO-heavy classes during his last 2 years here, and McCarney offering scholarships to just about any walk-on with a pulse, those 25/yr scholarships trimmed the roster down to a very low number because those guys were not around for 4 years. Now, Littrell is using blueshirts against the future to build up the roster now. Basically, Littrell is using a recruiting credit card. The roster size is dangerously low. We cannot just bring a guy in for 1 year if he's not going to contribute at a high level for that 1 year.

Also, I don't believe we can blueshirt Jefferson because he would count towards the 2018 class, but not have eligibility that year. Correct me if I'm wrong @BillySee58. So, do we even have a 2017 scholarship to offer him?

We can count him towards 2018, even if he's out of eligibility. As long as he blueshirts. And we do still have a spot left for the 2017 class.

Here is the real issue. We get 25 spots a year. We are projected to have 76 scholarship players next year if all signees make it in, everyone currently here stays, and all blueshirts make it in and are awarded scholarships (probably won't all happen). 5 of those guys aren't blueshirts and count towards our 2018 class. This means we likely only have 20 spots left in 2018.

We also have 19 scholarship seniors for next year. Ellis would make 20. Lose 20 scholarship seniors, with only 20 spots left in the upcoming recruiting class. That would mean we would be looking at, at most, 76 scholarship players for 2018. And that's only if all of the current juniors, sophomores, freshmen, signees, and commits are still here by 2018 (extremely impossible).

Even with blueshirts in 2018, who would count towards 2019, you'd be looking at probably low 70s scholarship players again. This is why we have to be very picky with giving scholarships to jucos and grad transfers.

8 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You can have 85 guys on scholarship. I believe last year we were playing with 60-something guys on scholarship. That is very very low in the grand scheme (FCS schools have a 63-scholarship limit. We were playing closer to that level than FBS). Your scholarship guys are your contributors (they're better players, so they demand a scholarship to play).

We were playing with about 71 or 70 by my count. I think this issue has been overdramatized. The 25 player/class cap had been in effect for 4 recruiting classes by the time the 2016 season started, for everybody. That, plus even if schools are full on overall team scholarships by signing day, players leave in between then and the season starting. Because of that, I'd say teams actually having over 80 scholarship players when the season starts is far from a sure thing. We were at about 71 scholarship guys, and the teams we were playing were at probably closer to 78 than 85.

Edited February 18, 2017 by BillySee58

TreeFiddy · February 18, 2017

After all this discussion, as far as I can tell the player has mentioned that he has interest in UNT, but I have not seen anything from the staff indicating a reciprocating interest (and I haven't seen anything that says they are not interested either).

So far, it seems like a kid with a year of eligibility fishing around for an opportunity, likely with many schools. I am sure the staff will vet his potential fit for the roster and extend an offer if they are interested.

the green rokemi · February 18, 2017

Somewhere Vito is giggling at how far this thread has gone

MeanGreenTexan · February 18, 2017

2 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

After all this discussion, as far as I can tell the player has mentioned that he has interest in UNT, but I have not seen anything from the staff indicating a reciprocating interest (and I haven't seen anything that says they are not interested either).

So far, it seems like a kid with a year of eligibility fishing around for an opportunity, likely with many schools. I am sure the staff will vet his potential fit for the roster and extend an offer if they are interested.

I don't twit the tweeter, but for those of you that do, and are paying attention to him, are any of the UNT staff guys following him?

Cr1028 · February 18, 2017

Something to note, our new lb coach was with the ASU wr coach at La Tech for 3 years so we may have some good insight on the kid.

BTG_Fan1 · February 18, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't twit the tweeter, but for those of you that do, and are paying attention to him, are any of the UNT staff guys following him?

Yes Filani is.

I'd like to bring him in, but not at the cost of losing a late qualifying HS kid that will be here for 4-years. I'd rather roll with the WRs if we can get someone else who will be here for multiple years like that kid Carson or a late-signee like we did with Jenkins that signed with Cinny, but they mutually backed out from it.

MeanGreenZen · February 18, 2017

In my mind, a grad transfer HAS to be an all-conference impact in their lone season to justify the three additional years of scholarship you are losing by adding him.

And the guy should probably play a position that is traditionally difficult to recruit the best high school players like QB or DT, maybe DE or CB.

There are plenty of high school WR's who UNT can actually sign that can step right in and make an impact and I would much rather use this scholarship on one of them than a grad transfer unless it is a guy who is a guaranteed 1,000 and 10.

Edited February 18, 2017 by MeanGreenZen

Mean Green 93-98 · February 18, 2017

3 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

. . . unless it is a guy who is a guaranteed 1,000 and 10.

Or, put another way, you only want leprechauns.

Hunter Green · February 18, 2017

Was Alex Morris on scholarship?

MeanGreenZen · February 18, 2017

Actually I only want unicorns.

And yes, the grad transfer should be a tool that is utilized in a very rare situation. It should not be used to pick up a 3rd WR. You can find one of those at almost any high school campus in Dallas.

Edited February 18, 2017 by MeanGreenZen