MGB: Remake of staff continues as LeBlanc is reportedly moving on

KingDL1 · February 10, 2017

Wren needs to figure out a way to pay these assistants where where a coach of any quality can stay longer than a year or two. I really wanted this staff to stay together a few years.

forevereagle · February 10, 2017

2 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

Wren needs to figure out a way to pay these assistants where where a coach of any quality can stay longer than a year or two. I really wanted this staff to stay together a few years.

Not sure that we could afford what it would take to keep a guy from getting poached by a P5. It isn't even just the money, it is also the step up in career and opportunity.

KingDL1 · February 10, 2017

But the truth is we are a bigger school than most of the P5s we need to start acting like it.

MeanGreenTexan · February 10, 2017

15 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

Not sure that we could afford what it would take to keep a guy from getting poached by a P5. It isn't even just the money, it is also the step up in career and opportunity.

Sadly, this.

13 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

But the truth is we are a bigger school than most of the P5s we need to start acting like it.

I assume you're talking about our enrollment number?
Using this logic, FCS Liberty and Grand Canyon must really be chapped.

greenminer · February 10, 2017

11 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I assume you're talking about our enrollment number?
Using this logic, FCS Liberty and Grand Canyon must really be chapped.

There's still some truth to what he's saying. As far as P5/G5, we are still pretty large, we could be better about engaging our alumni. The current lack of engagement is not helping our AD resources.

Edited February 10, 2017 by greenminer

TreeFiddy · February 10, 2017

I really hope we figure out a way to pay the OLine And DLine coaches $150k. The quality of candidates really improves in that range at the G5 level.

greenminer · February 10, 2017

These guys were good coaches and their community knows it. They couldn't just of been hired because they won 5 games.

KingDL1 · February 10, 2017

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I assume you're talking about our enrollment number?
Using this logic, FCS Liberty and Grand Canyon must really be chapped.

For a single campus with over a hundred years of football played? A 127 year old University?

FirefightnRick · February 10, 2017

There's a lot of great talent out there, including those at the lower levels.. Coach Fry even got a QB coach from Austin College one time.. You may have heard of him before...his name is Bill Snyder.

I'm not saying the current hires wont be any good. Maybe they can even keep UTEP below 52 points this next year? But we never seem to consider up and comers from successful lower division programs who would appreciate it here a little more.

Rick

Edited February 10, 2017 by FirefightnRick

meanrob · February 10, 2017

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

But the truth is we are a bigger school than most of the P5s we need to start acting like it.

It just came out that Baylor gets $30mil a year from the Big 12. We get what, a million from CUSA. You can use any measurement you want, but the money discrepancy will always make it tough to keep coaches.

It's my opinion that until we build a solid program foundation where we have a solid and engaged fan base, have a run of bowl appearances, and change the perception of UNT throughout the high school community in Texas, we'll still keep spinning our wheels. And this will take a little time. Unfortunately RV was allowed to stay around too long and just keep the ship afloat (or even take on water) instead of moving us forward. Let's hope Wren and company are different.

I'm not saying it will be easy but to me it's not impossible. Hell, maybe not even difficult. But the people in the athletic department need to be hell-bent on making it happen. Which won't if we keep doing the status-quo.

Army of Dad · February 10, 2017

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

But the truth is we are a bigger school than most of the P5s we need to start acting like it.

Since we beat dead horses here, I'll continue to beat one that should be dead.

No P5 school would have let a Benford level MBB coach hang around for 5 seasons. The point being is that UNT doesn't seem to really care about athletic success (or even lack of failure) all that much. It hasn't for as long as I've known about the school after I moved to Denton in '98.

There are some P5 schools that have gone through similar episodes of apathy towards athletic success (looking at you Northwestern), but on the whole none of those schools tolerate such abject failure.

I've heard a refrain of 'this time is different' multiple times since I moved to the area and even after I finally became a fan. Each of those times turned out that it really wasn't different. There's no real evidence this time will be different. There is a fair amount of belief, but little to no evidence.

Its one thing to think that UNT should starting acting like a P5, but quite another for that culture change (s/o to @SilverEagle) to actually happen across a broader spectrum.

MeanGreenTexan · February 10, 2017

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

For a single campus with over a hundred years of football played? A 127 year old University?

What does any of that have to do with:
" we are a bigger school than most of the P5s "

If we're moving the target, then FCS Delaware (single campus, 274 year old University) must be really chapped.

Point is, UNT's enrollment size, age, colors, location, logo, etc... does not change the fact that we're still in Conference USA instead of a P5 conference where there is much more money to dole-out for assistant coaches. It's about the money, not any of that other stuff.
Also, as pointed out, it is seen as a promotion/better opportunity by everyone to take a lateral move (OL coach -> OL coach / DC -> DC / DL coach -> DL coach) to a P5 school... even if UNT could pay the same amount as Florida, NC, Kentucky, respectively.

Aldo · February 10, 2017

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

But the truth is we are a bigger school than most of the P5s we need to start acting like it.

We don't win more than most of the P5s.

That's the first step in trying to chase that money.

TreeFiddy · February 10, 2017

Seemingly, the one thing we have not truly tried is an administration that completely backs athletics with public support AND funds. We are funding at levels higher than we have previously, but we probably need to be well above the rest for a few years in order to bring in the coaching talent to help us dig out of this hole we are in. Maybe after several years of success we can maybe dial it back a bit if necessary, but this is like launching a new product, or worse, rebranding an existing product with a poor reputation.

It will take outspending our competition for a while because they will constantly try to bring up our past failures.

meanrob · February 10, 2017

9 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Seemingly, the one thing we have not truly tried is an administration that completely backs athletics with public support AND funds. We are funding at levels higher than we have previously, but we probably need to be well above the rest for a few years in order to bring in the coaching talent to help us dig out of this hole we are in. Maybe after several years of success we can maybe dial it back a bit if necessary, but this is like launching a new product, or worse, rebranding an existing product with a poor reputation.

It will take outspending our competition for a while because they will constantly try to bring up our past failures.

Then Wren and company need to raise the money.

BTG_Fan1 · February 10, 2017

5 hours ago, Aldo said:

So a defensive QC position for Orr?

I'd love to see a QC or GA spot, with him doing outreach to the High Schools/recruits or fan base.. heck even give him some time if he wants in the AD office.. Orr is a great ambassador for UNT no matter what he does. Just have to hope he would want to stick with us.

UNTLifer · February 10, 2017

3 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I'm not saying the current hires wont be any good. Maybe they can even keep UTEP below 52 points this next year? But we never seem to consider up and comers from successful lower division programs who would appreciate it here a little more.

Rick

This, this, this!!!

untjim1995 · February 10, 2017

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

Seemingly, the one thing we have not truly tried is an administration that completely backs athletics with public support AND funds. We are funding at levels higher than we have previously, but we probably need to be well above the rest for a few years in order to bring in the coaching talent to help us dig out of this hole we are in. Maybe after several years of success we can maybe dial it back a bit if necessary, but this is like launching a new product, or worse, rebranding an existing product with a poor reputation.

It will take outspending our competition for a while because they will constantly try to bring up our past failures.

I just don't see this happening here. For 1, their are too many people around here that absolutely loathe athletics--not just apathy, but actually hate it being here. Secondly, the apathy part is staggering for a university in Texas. Third, we have never spent money on athletics to be our primary window to the university--we prefer music, arts, and a "value" education. Something has to be primary and its always been those two areas first here at UNT.

What I want is for us to treat athletics like the other G5s in our peer group do. In some ways, we do, but in others (recruiting budget, accepting losing) we do not. I'll always understand why people leave here for the P5 jobs that pay way more and that we will never financially compete with. But if we don't fix the winning part here, the absolute failure that is our recruiting will continue, which is the lifeblood of a program's path upward.

SilverEagle · February 11, 2017

22 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

Since we beat dead horses here, I'll continue to beat one that should be dead.

No P5 school would have let a Benford level MBB coach hang around for 5 seasons. The point being is that UNT doesn't seem to really care about athletic success (or even lack of failure) all that much. It hasn't for as long as I've known about the school after I moved to Denton in '98.

There are some P5 schools that have gone through similar episodes of apathy towards athletic success (looking at you Northwestern), but on the whole none of those schools tolerate such abject failure.

I've heard a refrain of 'this time is different' multiple times since I moved to the area and even after I finally became a fan. Each of those times turned out that it really wasn't different. There's no real evidence this time will be different. There is a fair amount of belief, but little to no evidence.

Its one thing to think that UNT should starting acting like a P5, but quite another for that culture change (s/o to @SilverEagle) to actually happen across a broader spectrum.

Someone actually listens. Thank you.

GreenMachine · February 11, 2017

23 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

I just don't see this happening here. For 1, their are too many people around here that absolutely loathe athletics--not just apathy, but actually hate it being here. Secondly, the apathy part is staggering for a university in Texas. Third, we have never spent money on athletics to be our primary window to the university--we prefer music, arts, and a "value" education. Something has to be primary and its always been those two areas first here at UNT.

What I want is for us to treat athletics like the other G5s in our peer group do. In some ways, we do, but in others (recruiting budget, accepting losing) we do not. I'll always understand why people leave here for the P5 jobs that pay way more and that we will never financially compete with. But if we don't fix the winning part here, the absolute failure that is our recruiting will continue, which is the lifeblood of a program's path upward.

Have you ever attended an art exhibit on campus? I have and hardly anybody showed up. Have you been to a musical? I have and it was 95% empty. This school and entire town don't really support anything. Not sure how to fix this problem buy it's definitely not just an apathy toward sports, it's an apathy toward everything or maybe it's just due to laziness.

Edited February 11, 2017 by GreenMachine

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 11, 2017

2 hours ago, GreenMachine said:

Have you ever attended an art exhibit on campus? I have and hardly anybody showed up. Have you been to a musical? I have and it was 95% empty. This school and entire town don't really support anything. Not sure how to fix this problem buy it's definitely not just an apathy toward sports, it's an apathy toward everything or maybe it's just due to laziness.

Yeah I've been to both and not much more interest than there is for athletics. However, I have seen fry street packed to the brim before, so let's be fair the town/school are interested in one thing: drinking. Just not going to football games to do it.

Ryan Munthe · February 11, 2017

3 hours ago, GreenMachine said:

Have you ever attended an art exhibit on campus? I have and hardly anybody showed up. Have you been to a musical? I have and it was 95% empty. This school and entire town don't really support anything. Not sure how to fix this problem buy it's definitely not just an apathy toward sports, it's an apathy toward everything or maybe it's just due to laziness.

You're not wrong. Denton prides itself on being a music town but all of the musicians leave because they can't get more than 10 people at a concert.

GreenMachine · February 11, 2017

57 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

You're not wrong. Denton prides itself on being a music town but all of the musicians leave because they can't get more than 10 people at a concert.

Sad thing is there has been some amazing bands play in Denton, unfortunately to empty venues. Dans Silverleaf has had some great ones.

Ryan Munthe · February 12, 2017

18 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

Sad thing is there has been some amazing bands play in Denton, unfortunately to empty venues. Dans Silverleaf has had some great ones.

You're preaching to the choir. I've seen some amazing shows from bands that are huge now to mostly empty rooms.