Johnny Jones?

[Mo Green]

No!

[drex]

Kaspar is a North Texas grad, which automatically excludes him for consideration as head coach here.

[TheTastyGreek]

35 minutes ago, MCMLXXX said:

In his 5 years he made the NCAA tournament once and lost in the first game. He made the NIT once and was 1-1. 

Let's circle back to this and see how it matches up to whoever we hire. 

[Green92]

7 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Let's circle back to this and see how it matches up to whoever we hire. 

Fair. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

If he's interested, it's a no-brainer WB interview him.  There may be other coaches interested, and I'm betting WB may know some b-ball coaches from his time at Memphis & Mizzou.   Should be plenty of good options for him, and if JJ is one of those options, I'll be excited to see him if he returns.

[CMJ]

I love JJ and might even fly back if/when he gets into out HOF to attend the event just because I'm that big of a fan.  HOWEVER, historically when a coach goes back to a place he previously had success the returns aren't as good.  I'd rather JJ rebuild his reputation elsewhere.

[GrandGreen]

 

NT could do a lot worse than a second time around Jones, but I really doubt that Baker would ever bring back a RV coach.   

I think most NT fans have seen enough of Jones.   A solid coach who could peak his teams for the season end tournaments, but was about a .500 coach in the Belt.  

2 hours ago, drex said:

Kaspar is a North Texas grad, which automatically excludes him for consideration as head coach here.

I think his record at Texas State excludes him a lot more than his NT affiliation. 

[MCMLXXX]

4 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Let's circle back to this and see how it matches up to whoever we hire. 

Comparison is with who LSU hires and 5 year results. 

[TIgreen01]

3 hours ago, CMJ said:

I love JJ and might even fly back if/when he gets into out HOF to attend the event just because I'm that big of a fan.  HOWEVER, historically when a coach goes back to a place he previously had success the returns aren't as good.  I'd rather JJ rebuild his reputation elsewhere.

Who are those coaches?  Not a flame, serious question.  The only one I can think of is Petrino at Louisville...and he's lighting that place up again.

[TheTastyGreek]

19 minutes ago, MCMLXXX said:

Comparison is with who LSU hires and 5 year results. 

In that case, have you compared his results to the guy he took over for? 

[CMJ]

18 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Who are those coaches?  Not a flame, serious question.  The only one I can think of is Petrino at Louisville...and he's lighting that place up again.

Well, if we're gonna go with some high profile football examples.

 

Walsh- Stanford

Robinson- USC

Snyder- KSU

 

All had success after returning, but none achieved as much as before they left initially.

 

 

Basketball is a bit tougher to remember.  The only one that immediately comes to mind is Ronnie Arrow, who did actually have a better win percentage when he went back to USA - even if he didn't have any sort of NCAA run.

[Keith7]

Please, please, please bring Johnny Jones back. He proved he could recruit here. He proved he could win here. Bring back Johnny Jones at all costs.

[untbowler]

1 hour ago, Keith7 said:

Please, please, please bring Johnny Jones back. He proved he could recruit here. He proved he could win here. Bring back Johnny Jones at all costs.

he could win in the lowly Sun Belt, but could not win a big game and in many cases his coaching lost many games the team should have won. Yes he was a very good recruiter, but an average game day coach. He was exposed in SEC, when he top recruiting classes and did not succeed.

[TheTastyGreek]

1 hour ago, untbowler said:

he could win in the lowly Sun Belt, but could not win a big game and in many cases his coaching lost many games the team should have won.

Ahhh... The lowly Sun Belt. 

Over the years and the steady drumbeat of crapping on JJ for poor results and underperformance, you've named at least three guys that I can remember as superior coaches that just so happen to currently coach in the Sun Belt: Danny Kaspar, Scott Cross, and Bob Marlin. 

Collectively, coming in to the year in progress, those three guys had coached 12 years in the Sun Belt. They are a combined 199-191 (.510) overall, and a combined 116-110 (.513) in the Sun Belt regular season. 24 of those games have come against non-D1 opponents, but if we need to eliminate them from the win column, we only need to subtract 23. Because Marlin lost to non-D1 Texas College (even BENFORD never lost to Texas College!). So, if non-D1 wins count, they're 8 games over .500. If not, they're .480 across 12 Sun Belt years. 

Combined, they have zero Sun Belt regular season championships, outright or shared. They have zero at large bids. They have zero NIT bids, at-large or automatic. They have zero wins against ranked teams. They have zero NCAA wins. In 12 total seasons. 

This year, the best of them currently has his team a solid 4th place in the lowly Sun Belt. 

So... If JJ sucked/sucks, why are all these coaches that are so much better than him so much worse in an even weaker Sun Belt? 

[Cerebus]

4 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

So... If JJ sucked/sucks, why are all these coaches that are so much better than him so much worse in an even weaker Sun Belt? 

Because at North Texas we are rarely good, and when we are good we will down play that success as much as possible. 

It's some sort of defensive mechanism.

[UNT94]

8 hours ago, Keith7 said:

Please, please, please bring Johnny Jones back. He proved he could recruit here. He proved he could win here. Bring back Johnny Jones at all costs.

Jones couldn't even beat UTA, had no post season wins, no wins vs Top 25, no outright regular season conf championships, and couldn't win a NCAA tourney game with all of the resources that LSU offers & has lost 9 in a row now, yet, despite all that, he is our best option 'at all costs'?  No.

Why not strive for better success?  Mediocrity has been our standard for too long.

[greenminer]

I'm starting to pick out the posters who clearly made up their minds about certain topics (like JJ) long ago, don't bother reading the discussions, and spew the same dated/mis-informed views over and over again.

You're a growing militia, and it is unsettling.

[UNT94]

6 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

So... If JJ sucked/sucks, why are all these coaches that are so much better than him so much worse in an even weaker Sun Belt? 

Scott Cross (uta) beat #20 St Mary's (who is currently 21-2) & Texas this year, along with a 177-139 record & 4 post season trips. Would be nice to have a coach with similar cred on his resume prior to joining us.

Edited February 7, 2017 by UNT94

[TheTastyGreek]

1 hour ago, UNT94 said:

Scott Cross (uta) beat #20 St Mary's (who is currently 21-2) & Texas this year, along with a 177-139 record & 4 post season trips. Would be nice to have a coach with similar cred on his resume prior to joining us.

Is this a bit? You realize that's actually worse than JJs record here, right?

And that two of those postseason trips were to the CIT, which we also could have bought our way into in 09, 11, or 12? 

As for the St Mary's win... Didn't catch it because I wasn't looking at this season. Impressive, though. I've always liked Scott Cross, and anything "negative" I have to say about him is only as a mirror to how some of our own fans mythologize him relative to JJ despite a record not much different from and generally worse than what they're condemning on our side. 

So... Seriously, is this a bit? 

[foutsrouts]

9 hours ago, untbowler said:

he could win in the lowly Sun Belt, but could not win a big game and in many cases his coaching lost many games the team should have won. Yes he was a very good recruiter, but an average game day coach. He was exposed in SEC, when he top recruiting classes and did not succeed.

I have to agree with you that JJ was basically an average game day coach. He got us to being on the cusp of real success, but he had a difficult time getting us over the hump. Besides, bringing back high level personnel rarely seems to work out well whether you're hiring in the entertainment world or the real world. New blood. 

[Censored by Laurie]

9 hours ago, UNT94 said:

Jones couldn't even beat UTA, had no post season wins, no wins vs Top 25, no outright regular season conf championships, and couldn't win a NCAA tourney game with all of the resources that LSU offers & has lost 9 in a row now, yet, despite all that, he is our best option 'at all costs'?  No.

Why not strive for better success?  Mediocrity has been our standard for too long.

JJ was 2-2 against Cross.

the blow-out loss in '11, which seems to be all anyone around here remembers, was the 2nd D-1 game of the year for a basically entire new squad (the first game a pretty narrow loss at Tech), played in what was such a foreign setting to any of the new kids and was, without question, the biggest anomaly of JJ's entire tenure.  that team still made the conference championship game. do you remember what those were like? 

despite all that...find me anywhere that anyone said "JJ is our best option at all costs". go ahead...find it. oh? nothing? sort of like what fills that bag you're dragging around? hmm. 

the conversation around JJ started as a noting of the fact that he'll likely be out of a job the same day UNT starts it's well over-due coaching search. nobody said "hire him!!" or "our savior!!"...only that here is a guy who is familiar with UNT, has already once brought at the very least respectability and conference competitiveness to a program in effing ashes...maybe we should at least consider walking him through the still smoldering pile of shit we made of his work and say, "whatta think of what we did with the place? wanna help us redecorate again?"

these are such generic sports guy lines..."strive for better success"..."mediocrity has been our standard"... what the hell does that even mean? you won't find a soul amongst any of even JJ's most fervent supporters who will say he's a perfect coach. I have a well-chronicled history through this basketball forum and other media (when I actually gave a shit about basketball) of being highly critical of a number of his coaching qualities. that said...the "perfect" coach sure as hell isn't coming to a directional school with a 40% winning percentage over the last half-decade. mediocrity would be a be a giant improvement.

 

[TheTastyGreek]

Even if Johnny Jones had parted the Red Sea, we'd all have spent the past 2000 years arguing whether or not it took him too long to do it, whether he was, at best, an average prophet, and whether he deserved any credit for only leading the Israelites to the cusp of real success, 

A few stubborn idiots would diminish the parting as a routine miracle performed on an insignificant water inlet, and criticize JJ for never successfully parting the Mediterranean or for never even having the courage to schedule an attempt to part the Atlantic Ocean. 

We'd hear about how the parting was no big deal, and how things were much better in the good days when Jeremiah's wife hung a linen belt with a special message over the back of his chair. We'd constantly have arguments over whether we'd make it to the promised land overnight if only we had the courage to raise our standards and follow Padre Pio or Joseph Smith instead of settling for prophetic mediocrity. 

[Cerebus]

54 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

We'd constantly have arguments over whether we'd make it to the promised land overnight if only we had the courage to raise our standards and follow Padre Pio or Joseph Smith instead of settling for prophetic mediocrity. 

All I'm saying is I never once saw JJ with golden plates OR stigmata.  

[CMJ]

2 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Even if Johnny Jones had parted the Red Sea, we'd all have spent the past 2000 years arguing whether or not it took him too long to do it, whether he was, at best, an average prophet, and whether he deserved any credit for only leading the Israelites to the cusp of real success, 

A few stubborn idiots would diminish the parting as a routine miracle performed on an insignificant water inlet, and criticize JJ for never successfully parting the Mediterranean or for never even having the courage to schedule an attempt to part the Atlantic Ocean. 

We'd hear about how the parting was no big deal, and how things were much better in the good days when Jeremiah's wife hung a linen belt with a special message over the back of his chair. We'd constantly have arguments over whether we'd make it to the promised land overnight if only we had the courage to raise our standards and follow Padre Pio or Joseph Smith instead of settling for prophetic mediocrity. 

I love you.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Even if Johnny Jones had parted the Red Sea, we'd all have spent the past 2000 years arguing whether or not it took him too long to do it, whether he was, at best, an average prophet, and whether he deserved any credit for only leading the Israelites to the cusp of real success, 

A few stubborn idiots would diminish the parting as a routine miracle performed on an insignificant water inlet, and criticize JJ for never successfully parting the Mediterranean or for never even having the courage to schedule an attempt to part the Atlantic Ocean. 

We'd hear about how the parting was no big deal, and how things were much better in the good days when Jeremiah's wife hung a linen belt with a special message over the back of his chair. We'd constantly have arguments over whether we'd make it to the promised land overnight if only we had the courage to raise our standards and follow Padre Pio or Joseph Smith instead of settling for prophetic mediocrity. 

LOL!