R-E-L-A-X

ipd054 · February 2, 2017

There are some people on this board that want to fire coaches, have Wren exit the bunker, and are all doom and gloom because we did not have the top recruiting class in the CUSA or State. To all of you, I say in my best cheese head idol voice R-E-L-A-X, relax we are going to be OK. Now before you start bashing, yes I did want a top class and would have loved 19 4 and 5 star recruits, however I am realistic and knew this would not happen, this year. (there were only 25 – 5 star and 354 – 4 star recruits in 2016)

I do not buy in to the fact that North Texas is a hard place to recruit, I do however buy in to the fact that players want 2 things, playing time and chance to win. We can get the top players all the playing time they want but winning has not been our strong suit.

Since these freshmen have been alive (1999) our record is 75-142 with only 4 winning seasons (3 in Dickey ball and 1 with Mac). Just for comparison:

Clemson (11^th ranked class) 161-73 16 winning seasons / TCU (22^nd ranked class) 167-59 14 winning season and move to Big 12 – same coach / Baylor (41^stranked class) 98-119 7 winning seasons all since 2010 (RGIII’s Junior Season) / Marshall (49^th ranked class) 133-93 10 winning seasons

Just in the high school years of this class:

UNT 19-31 / Clemson 49-7 / TCU 33-18 / Baylor 39-13 / Marshall 36-17

Let’s look at a few successful turnaround teams in the same time frame.

Briles at Baylor (arguably the biggest turnaround in the last 10 years – even if it was dirty) first 3 seasons 15-22 with his first 2 seasons only hitting 4 wins each. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. He took over a 3-9 team. In 2009 his second full recruiting class, Dave Cambell’s Texas Football was praising the Bears for recruiting JUCO talent and 3 star offensive linemen. They talk about recruiting to their scheme and “having promising players that needed to be molded”

Dabo Swinney at Clemson hired in 2008 first 3 seasons 19-15 (partial 1^st season) Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. (7-6, 9-5, 6-7 in his first 3 years and he took over a 9-4 team).

Doc Holliday at Marshall Hired in 2009, first 3 seasons 19-19. He took over a 4-8 team. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. 2^nd recruiting class ranked 87th (8 3 stars) class avg. 78.41

I can keep going but the data is the same unless you take over a top tier program It takes several years (on average 4) of recruiting and molding good players to fully implement your program. Mac showed promise but could not mold players. So out in 4, good call.

Seth Littrell at North Texas, 5-8 in his first year after taking over a 1-11 team (best 1^st year turnaround of all of the above) Recruited 7 - 3 star recruits with an overall class rank of 78.65 (Better overall class in year 2 than Doc according to 247 sports). Is being bashed for taking JUCOs and recruiting promising player that need to be molded… Sound like Briles in his second year except for the bashing part?

If I told you that 7 years from now we would be on or 6^th bowl game with a 60-43 record with at least 3 10 win seasons, 4 top 50 appearances, and one top 10 would you take it? I would! Even though Marshall who has these stats since Doc took over had a horrible year last year I guarantee that they would love those stats for the next 7 years…

Give Seth and his staff some time. They all have a vested interest in turning this thing around. It is literally worth millions to each one of them. If we have another ho-hum 5-7 or 6-6 year I will be with you on putting Littrell on a very hot seat but for now…

R-E-L-A-X.

Green Lantern · February 2, 2017

3 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

There are some people on this board that want to fire coaches

Who's called for the coaches to be fired?

Caw Caw · February 2, 2017

3 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

There are some people on this board that want to fire coaches, have Wren exit the bunker, and are all doom and gloom because we did not have the top recruiting class in the CUSA or State. To all of you, I say in my best cheese head idol voice R-E-L-A-X, relax we are going to be OK. Now before you start bashing, yes I did want a top class and would have loved 19 4 and 5 star recruits, however I am realistic and knew this would not happen, this year. (there were only 25 – 5 star and 354 – 4 star recruits in 2016)

I do not buy in to the fact that North Texas is a hard place to recruit, I do however buy in to the fact that players want 2 things, playing time and chance to win. We can get the top players all the playing time they want but winning has not been our strong suit.

Since these freshmen have been alive (1999) our record is 75-142 with only 4 winning seasons (3 in Dickey ball and 1 with Mac). Just for comparison:

Clemson (11^th ranked class) 161-73 16 winning seasons / TCU (22^nd ranked class) 167-59 14 winning season and move to Big 12 – same coach / Baylor (41^stranked class) 98-119 7 winning seasons all since 2010 (RGIII’s Junior Season) / Marshall (49^th ranked class) 133-93 10 winning seasons

Just in the high school years of this class:

UNT 19-31 / Clemson 49-7 / TCU 33-18 / Baylor 39-13 / Marshall 36-17

Let’s look at a few successful turnaround teams in the same time frame.

Briles at Baylor (arguably the biggest turnaround in the last 10 years – even if it was dirty) first 3 seasons 15-22 with his first 2 seasons only hitting 4 wins each. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. He took over a 3-9 team. In 2009 his second full recruiting class, Dave Cambell’s Texas Football was praising the Bears for recruiting JUCO talent and 3 star offensive linemen. They talk about recruiting to their scheme and “having promising players that needed to be molded”

Dabo Swinney at Clemson hired in 2008 first 3 seasons 19-15 (partial 1^st season) Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. (7-6, 9-5, 6-7 in his first 3 years and he took over a 9-4 team).

Doc Holliday at Marshall Hired in 2009, first 3 seasons 19-19. He took over a 4-8 team. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. 2^nd recruiting class ranked 87th (8 3 stars) class avg. 78.41

I can keep going but the data is the same unless you take over a top tier program It takes several years (on average 4) of recruiting and molding good players to fully implement your program. Mac showed promise but could not mold players. So out in 4, good call.

Seth Littrell at North Texas, 5-8 in his first year after taking over a 1-11 team (best 1^st year turnaround of all of the above) Recruited 7 - 3 star recruits with an overall class rank of 78.65 (Better overall class in year 2 than Doc according to 247 sports). Is being bashed for taking JUCOs and recruiting promising player that need to be molded… Sound like Briles in his second year except for the bashing part?

If I told you that 7 years from now we would be on or 6^th bowl game with a 60-43 record with at least 3 10 win seasons, 4 top 50 appearances, and one top 10 would you take it? I would! Even though Marshall who has these stats since Doc took over had a horrible year last year I guarantee that they would love those stats for the next 7 years…

Give Seth and his staff some time. They all have a vested interest in turning this thing around. It is literally worth millions to each one of them. If we have another ho-hum 5-7 or 6-6 year I will be with you on putting Littrell on a very hot seat but for now…

R-E-L-A-X.

Thanks for a thoughtful, and well researched post. Agree or disagree, i'll always upvote this type of content. I think we have time to watch this staff develop, win and improve recruiting. This ain't a fast-food-drive-through turnaround, this is Hell's kitchen folks, now let's let Gordon Ramsey Work.

southsideguy · February 2, 2017

This is UNT we give the coaches a lot of time look no further than our basketball coach.

Army of Dad · February 2, 2017

7 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

Now before you start bashing, yes I did want a top class and would have loved 19 4 and 5 star recruits, however I am realistic and knew this would not happen, this year. (there were only 25 – 5 star and 354 – 4 star recruits in 2016)

Who said the class had to have a bunch of 4&5 star guys?

ipd054 · February 2, 2017

UNT 90 posted in "Will there be consequences" thread... I know it is UNT90...

"Will there be any consequences for recruiting the 12th ranked class in CUSA?

Will we see assistant coaches replaced? Will the recruiting coordinator be held accountable?

Or will we continue to be UNT."

Edited February 2, 2017 by ipd054
added quotes

MeanGreen_MBA · February 2, 2017

16 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

There are some people on this board that want to fire coaches, have Wren exit the bunker, and are all doom and gloom because we did not have the top recruiting class in the CUSA or State. To all of you, I say in my best cheese head idol voice R-E-L-A-X, relax we are going to be OK. Now before you start bashing, yes I did want a top class and would have loved 19 4 and 5 star recruits, however I am realistic and knew this would not happen, this year. (there were only 25 – 5 star and 354 – 4 star recruits in 2016)

I do not buy in to the fact that North Texas is a hard place to recruit, I do however buy in to the fact that players want 2 things, playing time and chance to win. We can get the top players all the playing time they want but winning has not been our strong suit.

Since these freshmen have been alive (1999) our record is 75-142 with only 4 winning seasons (3 in Dickey ball and 1 with Mac). Just for comparison:

Clemson (11^th ranked class) 161-73 16 winning seasons / TCU (22^nd ranked class) 167-59 14 winning season and move to Big 12 – same coach / Baylor (41^stranked class) 98-119 7 winning seasons all since 2010 (RGIII’s Junior Season) / Marshall (49^th ranked class) 133-93 10 winning seasons

Just in the high school years of this class:

UNT 19-31 / Clemson 49-7 / TCU 33-18 / Baylor 39-13 / Marshall 36-17

Let’s look at a few successful turnaround teams in the same time frame.

Briles at Baylor (arguably the biggest turnaround in the last 10 years – even if it was dirty) first 3 seasons 15-22 with his first 2 seasons only hitting 4 wins each. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. He took over a 3-9 team. In 2009 his second full recruiting class, Dave Cambell’s Texas Football was praising the Bears for recruiting JUCO talent and 3 star offensive linemen. They talk about recruiting to their scheme and “having promising players that needed to be molded”

Dabo Swinney at Clemson hired in 2008 first 3 seasons 19-15 (partial 1^st season) Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. (7-6, 9-5, 6-7 in his first 3 years and he took over a 9-4 team).

Doc Holliday at Marshall Hired in 2009, first 3 seasons 19-19. He took over a 4-8 team. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. 2^nd recruiting class ranked 87th (8 3 stars) class avg. 78.41

I can keep going but the data is the same unless you take over a top tier program It takes several years (on average 4) of recruiting and molding good players to fully implement your program. Mac showed promise but could not mold players. So out in 4, good call.

Seth Littrell at North Texas, 5-8 in his first year after taking over a 1-11 team (best 1^st year turnaround of all of the above) Recruited 7 - 3 star recruits with an overall class rank of 78.65 (Better overall class in year 2 than Doc according to 247 sports). Is being bashed for taking JUCOs and recruiting promising player that need to be molded… Sound like Briles in his second year except for the bashing part?

If I told you that 7 years from now we would be on or 6^th bowl game with a 60-43 record with at least 3 10 win seasons, 4 top 50 appearances, and one top 10 would you take it? I would! Even though Marshall who has these stats since Doc took over had a horrible year last year I guarantee that they would love those stats for the next 7 years…

Give Seth and his staff some time. They all have a vested interest in turning this thing around. It is literally worth millions to each one of them. If we have another ho-hum 5-7 or 6-6 year I will be with you on putting Littrell on a very hot seat but for now…

R-E-L-A-X.

best post in a long time!!!!

10 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

Who's called for the coaches to be fired?

90

8 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

UNT 90 posted in "Will there be consequences" thread... I know it is UNT90...

"Will there be any consequences for recruiting the 12th ranked class in CUSA?

Will we see assistant coaches replaced? Will the recruiting coordinator be held accountable?

Or will we continue to be UNT."

this...

meanrob · February 2, 2017

6 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

UNT 90 posted in "Will there be consequences" thread... I know it is UNT90...

"Will there be any consequences for recruiting the 12th ranked class in CUSA?

Will we see assistant coaches replaced? Will the recruiting coordinator be held accountable?

Or will we continue to be UNT."

I don't think asking WB and company to push the brand a little harder is pushing the panic button. Only thing worse than an overreaction (and there has been a bit of an overreaction to this recruiting class) is an overreaction the other way. Plus I'm not big on comparing us to P5 schools.

Regardless, I think most people accept it's going to take time. But if you're expecting everybody to not have an opinion after recruiting classes, losses, and other measuring points along the way, I think that's the unrealistic point.

Quoner · February 2, 2017

Who's Arron Rogers? Can we blueshirt him?

PlummMeanGreen · February 3, 2017

1 hour ago, ipd054 said:

There are some people on this board that want to fire coaches, have Wren exit the bunker, and are all doom and gloom because we did not have the top recruiting class in the CUSA or State. To all of you, I say in my best cheese head idol voice R-E-L-A-X, relax we are going to be OK. Now before you start bashing, yes I did want a top class and would have loved 19 4 and 5 star recruits, however I am realistic and knew this would not happen, this year. (there were only 25 – 5 star and 354 – 4 star recruits in 2016)

I do not buy in to the fact that North Texas is a hard place to recruit, I do however buy in to the fact that players want 2 things, playing time and chance to win. We can get the top players all the playing time they want but winning has not been our strong suit.

Since these freshmen have been alive (1999) our record is 75-142 with only 4 winning seasons (3 in Dickey ball and 1 with Mac). Just for comparison:

Clemson (11^th ranked class) 161-73 16 winning seasons / TCU (22^nd ranked class) 167-59 14 winning season and move to Big 12 – same coach / Baylor (41^stranked class) 98-119 7 winning seasons all since 2010 (RGIII’s Junior Season) / Marshall (49^th ranked class) 133-93 10 winning seasons

Just in the high school years of this class:

UNT 19-31 / Clemson 49-7 / TCU 33-18 / Baylor 39-13 / Marshall 36-17

Let’s look at a few successful turnaround teams in the same time frame.

Briles at Baylor (arguably the biggest turnaround in the last 10 years – even if it was dirty) first 3 seasons 15-22 with his first 2 seasons only hitting 4 wins each. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. He took over a 3-9 team. In 2009 his second full recruiting class, Dave Cambell’s Texas Football was praising the Bears for recruiting JUCO talent and 3 star offensive linemen. They talk about recruiting to their scheme and “having promising players that needed to be molded”

Dabo Swinney at Clemson hired in 2008 first 3 seasons 19-15 (partial 1^st season) Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. (7-6, 9-5, 6-7 in his first 3 years and he took over a 9-4 team).

Doc Holliday at Marshall Hired in 2009, first 3 seasons 19-19. He took over a 4-8 team. Took 4 years to become a 10 win team. 2^nd recruiting class ranked 87th (8 3 stars) class avg. 78.41

I can keep going but the data is the same unless you take over a top tier program It takes several years (on average 4) of recruiting and molding good players to fully implement your program. Mac showed promise but could not mold players. So out in 4, good call.

Seth Littrell at North Texas, 5-8 in his first year after taking over a 1-11 team (best 1^st year turnaround of all of the above) Recruited 7 - 3 star recruits with an overall class rank of 78.65 (Better overall class in year 2 than Doc according to 247 sports). Is being bashed for taking JUCOs and recruiting promising player that need to be molded… Sound like Briles in his second year except for the bashing part?

If I told you that 7 years from now we would be on or 6^th bowl game with a 60-43 record with at least 3 10 win seasons, 4 top 50 appearances, and one top 10 would you take it? I would! Even though Marshall who has these stats since Doc took over had a horrible year last year I guarantee that they would love those stats for the next 7 years…

Give Seth and his staff some time. They all have a vested interest in turning this thing around. It is literally worth millions to each one of them. If we have another ho-hum 5-7 or 6-6 year I will be with you on putting Littrell on a very hot seat but for now…

R-E-L-A-X.

✅?✅Great research!

I didn't realize that we had recruited 7 "3" star athletes, though. Is there a list of those players?

GMG!

Green Lantern · February 3, 2017

9 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

best post in a long time!!!!

90

this...

Ok. So "some people on this forum" = 1 dude. @UNT90 Got it.

People need to quit being obsessed with him and his opinions. On this particular issue, recruiting, he happens to share an opinion with a lot of us. That of concern...for the myriad of reasons already discussed.

Monkeypox · February 3, 2017

Wait... where are you finding ANY ranking of ours higher than Holliday's at Marshall?

2008 Marshall (pre-Holliday) #4 CUSA, #68 nation

2009 Marshall (pre-Holliday): #8 CUSA, #86 Nation

2010 Marshall: #2 CUSA, #77 nation

2011 Marshall: #1 CUSA, #60 nation

2012 Marshall: #3 CUSA, #77 nation

2013 Marshall: #1 CUSA, #57 nation

..........

2014 UNT (pre-Littrell): #9 CUSA, #102 nation

2015 UNT(pre-Littrell): #6 CUSA, #95 nation

2016 UNT: #9 CUSA, #102 nation

2017 UNT: #11 CUSA, #114 nation

............

And since you brought them up:

2007 Baylor (pre-Briles): #12 Big12, #77 nation

2008 Baylor: #9 Big12, #55 nation

2009 Baylor: #10 Big12, #52 nation

2010 Baylor: #8 Big12, #40 nation

Briles immediately improved the recruiting enough at Baylor to get them competitive, maintaining classes around top 50. The next few years he had top 3 classes in the Big 12 and nationally ranking just outside the top 25 (the cost of course, is a whole other matter).

So no... It doesn't look anything like those other programs. We recruit significantly below the level they did even before the coaching changes, and have received no bump in recruiting from a new staff.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Monkeypox

MeanGreen_MBA · February 3, 2017

4 hours ago, Green Lantern said:

Ok. So "some people on this forum" = 1 dude. @UNT90 Got it.

People need to quit being obsessed with him and his opinions. On this particular issue, recruiting, he happens to share an opinion with a lot of us. That of concern...for the myriad of reasons already discussed.

So you want a coach fired??

MeanGreenHoops · February 3, 2017

I don't think anyone is freaking out. But some here can't handle anything critical.

Objectively, the new AD hasn't done anything different yet. Other than... some thought maybe buying tickets to the bowl game was better this time, nothing that we know of has been done. Maybe (surely) that is coming, but to this point nothing noticeable. That is a concern, but no one is saying he needs to be fired. Just - hey this concerns me.

Objectively, our recruiting is no better than any of our previous coaches. The new coach hasn't done anything different than other coaches in the past. That has generally meant the coach won't last long and we won't win many games. That is a concern, but no one is saying he needs to be fired. Just - hey this concerns me.

So Relax ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Green Lantern · February 3, 2017

2 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

So you want a coach fired??

Nope. My last response was not really worded well. As stated in other threads, I'm happy and encouraged with the on the field progress, especially with a short deck of scholarship players last season. I'm concerned that we don't appear to be recruiting at a CUSA Championship level yet.

After watching WKU, La Tech and MTSU run through us last year with relative ease, I was really hoping for a great class this year to help us start to close the gap talent wise. We've got a way to there.

MeanGreen_MBA · February 3, 2017

wrong board. I agree with it, just not relevant on this thread

Cerebus · February 3, 2017

2 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

So you want a coach fired??

Here is what I said on the recruiting forum:

On 2/2/2017 at 8:44 AM, Cerebus said:

There are a lot of good reasons for why North Texas can't recruit as well as Alabama. There are no good reasons as to why we can't recruit as well as FAU, UTSA, and FIU.

When we are getting blown out by those schools in recruiting, it's inexcusable.

The Wren™ should know fans find this inexcusable. He should put pressure on SL and the coaching staff to make it better. SL needs to find the problems and fix them. If some of those problems are resource shortages, The Wren™ needs to find out how to fulfill that need.

This is where you, the fan, comes in.

We don't need to flood recruits with tweets, that's a violation. Falling on the ground and banging our hands and feet on the ground and crying that we want better (in person, or on the internet) isn't good enough. If we really want to recruit better we need to help provide those resources.

I have heard some people talk about not buying tickets or giving to the MGC because they are so unhappy with this class. That is counter productive. When the last AD was here, I could see why people would be so fed up with him that they would go to that nuclear option to demand change. I was one of those myself.

However, this is a new AD. He needs to be held accountable, but it's not time to try and resource starve the program because he needs to go. Give him the resources he needs, and then hold him accountable.

Of course, this is also something the AD needs to spearhead. If he needs $X to increase travel, or hire a social media expert, or a graphics guy etc., then reaching out to the small/medium donors should be part of the plan. I think a lot of people would pitch in $20 or $50 for some goal. That adds up.

ForneyGreen · February 3, 2017

LOL! Thanks Tasty ... sums up the Mean Green Fan experience pretty well :-)

MeanGreen_MBA · February 3, 2017

LMFAO

Quoner · February 3, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

People are obsessed with his opinions because he literally never shuts up about them. In. Every. Thread. Put him on ignore and guess what? Everyone quotes him.

I get it, but ignoring someone - and their quoted posts - can be a personal choice, not a board feature.

Aldo · February 3, 2017

Or the L's

Got5onIt · February 3, 2017

LOL

That's what UTSA is doing to us. Notice we're still whining as the UTSA girl has the big ol' shit eatin' grin before plowing us...

forevereagle · February 3, 2017

16 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

big ol' shit eatin' grin

I have never understood this saying. Not sure that would be my reaction...

ntmeangreen11 · February 3, 2017

Who is expecting 4 star high school players to commit here?

Where are those posts? They don't exist.

You can say all these players were system fits but they fit here because the first 14 guys we offered went elsewhere and 15th on our list had no other FBS options.

That doesn't mean they fit the system, that means we were each others last resort.

Got5onIt · February 3, 2017

14 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

I have never understood this saying. Not sure that would be my reaction...

The uber satisfaction dogs get when they eat their own shit. Pure ecstasy of doo doo consumption causes them to grin. My old Boston Terrier loved field tootsie rolls....