Grade the Littrell Hire V5 (First Full NSD)

Cerebus · February 1, 2017

It's time to do the fifth of these polls.

Please remember:

~~Yes, it's early, too early to give a real grade.~~ This is a snapshot of how the fanbase feels about Littrell AT THIS TIME.
Results are anonymous (except to mods).
There will be a follow up after the season.
There is no D, get over it, have a real opinion.
There will be graphs and trendlines at a later date. <-- I totally promise this time I swear... totes.

First Poll (Hired):

Second Poll (Staff Complete):

Third Poll (First NSD):

Fourth Poll (Mid Season):

GrandGreen · February 1, 2017

I have to move him down after this recruiting class.

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2017

I don't recall voting in that 4th one.

Looking at what the Mean Green did over the course of the season (positive), as well as the recruiting disparity between he & Wilson @ UTSA (negative), I have to bump up the Littrell hire back to my original grade of an A-.

UNT90 · February 1, 2017

After this recruiting class, I gave him a C, which won't get it done here.

We really needed an A hire. This class doesn't provide much hope that this is the case.

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2017

8 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

After this recruiting class, I gave him a C, which won't get it done here.

We really needed an A hire. This class doesn't provide much hope that this is the case.

Question for @Cerebus, are you looking for these polls to build on each other? Meaning, are we to consider what has transpired from day 1 when voting in this poll?

Or, are we to consider each one separately? Meaning, for this 5th poll, are we to consider everything that happened after Oct.11 (going 2-5 after the bye week & recruiting)?

If the latter, I need to change my grade.

KingDL1 · February 1, 2017

After this floparuski he should be lucky to get a C, I really did expect more out of this staff.

TIgreen01 · February 1, 2017

Good timing. Getting waxed by the likes of UTSA and even more so by freaking TxSt on NSD looks really bad. Coming off such a huge turnaround, record wise, I expected to see us doing more than beating FCS schools for the vast majority of our recruits. Also, I'm not happy with the defense's complete collapse toward the end of the year, either. It's clear the 3-3-5 got figured out. Curious if we'll stay with that front going forward.

Cerebus · February 1, 2017

19 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Question for @Cerebus, are you looking for these polls to build on each other? Meaning, are we to consider what has transpired from day 1 when voting in this poll?

Yes:

49 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

This is a snapshot of how the fanbase feels about Littrell AT THIS TIME.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · February 1, 2017

Gave C+. Have given B-/C+ on all of the polls so far. Will increase when we are winning consistently. After that occurs, then recruiting picks up, and you are into A territory.

To me, A territory is winning consistently. My worry is that people give him an A just based on "he's not McCarney, Dodge, or Dickey." If the bar is set that low to get over a grade of B, we're not looking at this thing properly.

At this point, both of his recruiting classes look about the same as Dickey, Dodge, and McCarney's all did...and he's got 5 wins and 8 losses. So...C+.

With the schedule inherited, I think he has NO excuse to win less than six games his second season. I don't think we gain any momentum recruiting-wise by continuing the 4- and 5-win season path. UNT just doesn't have the historical cache to do that.

Monkeypox · February 1, 2017

Yeah, I gave a C. Probably should've given a C-. I need to stop grading on a curve, based on Mac, DD, Dodge.

I can't really remember what I graded (or if I graded at all) before, but my general opinion has hovered in this same territory.

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2017

Wow. So far, lots of myopic folks, only looking at recruiting class rankings I guess, and forgetting this dude took over a 1-11 squad that looked like a ship with no rudder last year and led them to a bowl game.

Big picture folks. Big picture.

Yeah, this class looks lackluster on paper, but he worked a miracle this past year on the gridiron.

97and03 · February 1, 2017

I judge the first two classes, first season, and hires as a C-. Top recruits never made it on to the team, lost 5 of 6, Ivery and Gore gone, and still not sure about an OC with only two years coaching under his belt. Same for WR coach hire.

I have not lost faith completely, but the moment in time snapshot grade is definitely in the C range and can't see how it could be otherwise.

TIgreen01 · February 1, 2017

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Wow. So far, lots of myopic folks, only looking at recruiting class rankings I guess, and forgetting this dude took over a 1-11 squad that looked like a ship with no rudder last year and led them to a bowl game.

Big picture folks. Big picture.

Yeah, this class looks lackluster on paper, but he worked a miracle this past year on the gridiron.

How is this any different than DMac at this point? We went 5-7 in his first year (no APR bonus to grant us a bowl), too. Then stunk it up on the recruiting trail the next two years and that led to 2015---arguably the worst UNT football team ever fielded.

I have bounced around quite a bit. Initially I think I started out in the C+ or B- range. By mid-year I was pretty well smitten, but things have gone downhill, and fast, since the first Army game.

I still like Littrell, but I thought going in that he and his staff would be better recruiters than DMac and his. Just when I convince myself that it'll take time to wash off the stench of the last 10 years, I look and see utsa and txst, of all places, beating --no, BLOWING AWAY-- virtually EVERY recruiting class UNT has landed in the past 20 years in their new coach's first full year in town. It is sobering to say the least. Whatever you think about recruiting rankings, this has been a wake up call.

Now...I know we're not supposed to be negative on NSD. We're supposed to welcome in all these new players. I'm glad to have them, truly, I am. But if reading this pisses them off and upsets them, then good. Same for the coaches. Prove me and all the naysayers wrong. Pull a DD, put your back to the wall and call us a bunch of MFers. It worked for those guys. Unite around something. I'm just not going to stick around and watch us get passed by utsa and txst. That is crap, and they all should know that.

Mean Green 93-98 · February 1, 2017

I believe I gave him somewhere around a C+ after last year's signing class. I would give this signing class a solid D, at least on paper. But I am going to raise my overall grade of Littrell to a B+. His ability to bring significant on-field improvement greatly outweighs my concerns with his recruiting.

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2017

1 minute ago, TIgreen01 said:

How is this any different than DMac at this point? We went 5-7 in his first year (no APR bonus to grant us a bowl), too. Then stunk it up on the recruiting trail the next two years and that led to 2015---arguably the worst UNT football team ever fielded.

I have bounced around quite a bit. Initially I think I started out in the C+ or B- range. By mid-year I was pretty well smitten, but things have gone downhill, and fast, since the first Army game.

I still like Littrell, but I thought going in that he and his staff would be better recruiters than DMac and his. Just when I convince myself that it'll take time to wash off the stench of the last 10 years, I look and see utsa and txst, of all places, beating --no, BLOWING AWAY-- virtually EVERY recruiting class UNT has landed in the past 20 years in their new coach's first full year in town. It is sobering to say the least. Whatever you think about recruiting rankings, this has been a wake up call.

Now...I know we're not supposed to be negative on NSD. We're supposed to welcome in all these new players. I'm glad to have them, truly, I am. But if reading this pisses them off and upsets them, then good. Same for the coaches. Prove me and all the naysayers wrong. Pull a DD, put your back to the wall and call us a bunch of MFers. It worked for those guys. Unite around something. I'm just not going to stick around and watch us get passed by utsa and txst. That is crap, and they all should know that.

You're right. It's not.
And DMac was recruiting better as well (wasn't his 1st class the one that hauled Lemon and Akunne?). He looked to be a great hire as well. The future (now the past) told a different story for him though.
I just look at the team's buy-in and what transpired in front of me at Apogee this past season and I'm on-board with Littrell. And apparently playing devils advocate for him as well.

As for the recruiting class appearing sub-par, I can't disagree. However, if he had hauled in a top5 C-USA class today, and only lead the team to a 2-win season last year, my grade would be much lower. I wonder if it would be opposite for some here.

Monkeypox · February 1, 2017

My grade would've been the same, but my F for going 2-10 wouldve been pulled up to a C/C- for hauling in a top recruiting class... but it might have to be higher than a top5 CUSA class to pull it up that much. Instead, my F for recruiting the 116th ranked class in the country has been pulled up to a C/C- for winning 5 games. Weirdly, I think the ability to coach up recruits AND the ability to bring in talent are both important for a coaching staff.

To get anything around an A or a B, you'd have to give me something I hadn't seen before.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Monkeypox

Tyler Maryak · February 1, 2017

Wow, significant shift. No A+ grades as of the time I post this. Some folks taking the low recruit rankings personally.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Tyler Maryak

p_phelps · February 1, 2017

This class is unacceptable for me. When compared to other schools in our conference that have passed us by is so infuriating! The FAU, UTSA, FIU were all in our boat last year and now they have stacked classes. Recruiting is what wins in college football. TALENT WINS HERE. X's and O's win in the NFL. We need talent and this class doesn't fit the bill and I'm ticked off when FIU FREAKING FIU has a class I can only dream for us to have. We are barley ahead of Rice and UTEP.. makes me sick to even say that. SL better win NOW or Wren better make a change. Sick of being passed by from lesser programs. I demand more!

Edited February 1, 2017 by p_phelps

wardly · February 1, 2017

247 ranks UNT 12th in 14 team CUSA, and 116th nationally out of 125 D1 programs. How anyone can give Littrell a passing grade in recruiting is beyond me.

All About UNT · February 1, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Wow. So far, lots of myopic folks, only looking at recruiting class rankings I guess, and forgetting this dude took over a 1-11 squad that looked like a ship with no rudder last year and led them to a bowl game.

Big picture folks. Big picture.

Yeah, this class looks lackluster on paper, but he worked a miracle this past year on the gridiron.

UTSA won one more game than we did this year... just two more the year before AND dominated in recruiting. Set your expectations to what your peers set it to or you will find yourself sub-par when comparing yourself with them.

Side Show Joe · February 1, 2017

This class is in the bottom half of C-USA. We are losing more recruiting battles then we are winning.

I know Littrell won five games this season, which was more then most of us believed possible, but even if he had only won 2 or 3, I expected this class to rank higher. Mac could have landed a class loaded with "2 Star" and "Only Offer" talent.

Wilson has beaten Littrell on the field and now in recruiting. I don't want excuses, I want results.

I can't see how any rational person could grade him out above a "C" right now.

UNT90 · February 1, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Wow. So far, lots of myopic folks, only looking at recruiting class rankings I guess, and forgetting this dude took over a 1-11 squad that looked like a ship with no rudder last year and led them to a bowl game.

Big picture folks. Big picture.

Yeah, this class looks lackluster on paper, but he worked a miracle this past year on the gridiron.

Jimmy and Joes.

Counting on gridiron miracles year after year isn't a healthy program plan.

Deep down you know this. Denial is the strongest human emotion.

4 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

This class is in the bottom half of C-USA. We are losing more recruiting battles then we are winning.

I know Littrell won five games this season, which was more then most of us believed possible, but even if he had only won 2 or 3, I expected this class to rank higher. Mac could have landed a class loaded with "2 Star" and "Only Offer" talent.

Wilson has beaten Littrell on the field and now in recruiting. I don't want excuses, I want results.

I can't see how any rational person could grade him out above a "C" right now.

@BillySee58 Did UNT win one recruiting battle against any conference foe? Honest question.

wardly · February 1, 2017

NO, but we beat the hell out of the 1AA schools we butted heads with.

Monkeypox · February 1, 2017

4 minutes ago, wardly said:

NO, but we beat the hell out of the 1AA schools we butted heads with.

Yeah, but ACU is like the Alabama of Abilene.

GOMG2013 · February 1, 2017

1 hour ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

His ability to bring significant on-field improvement greatly outweighs my concerns with his recruiting.

Can you provide some examples for me. I know some have the same opinion, but other than QB, I can't seem to find any improvement in other areas. I'm really asking and not trying to be funny or sarcastic.

Yes, I know we won more, but there's other things that can easily contribute to winning more games the following year such as younger players just being a year older, injuries to the other team, more favorable matchups, easier schedule.

One example of on the field improvement I saw that led to the 9 win season was the upgrade at both corners with Buyers and James Jones. Another upgrade that year came in hiring Tommy Perry and almost all areas of special trams contributed. I didn't see anything like that last season.

I saw better QB play than McNulty and the defense was not a bend don't break defense. That still does not equate to finding diamonds in the rough and coaching up talent. It just means they didn't suck as bad as mcnulty, chico, mac, and cosh.