Round 2 of Facilities Improvement Started

[97and03]

4 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Man, our history is not so great.  

Rinse and repeat. 

 

[cdizzle86]

I say build a 6500-6750 person arena and make it a diamond with some suites, amazing locker rooms, state of the art technology, etc. 

I don't mind being smaller than other arenas, but it better shine brighter than the others and be able to sell recruits better.

[ttunt1970]

Just saw  the attendance of Houston-SMU last night in Houston 8,249 (capacity-8,249) and I believe Houston's enrollment is over 36,000.

[oldguystudent]

I have two gripes about the Super Pit:

1)  It's waaay too big.  10,000 capacity is ridiculous. 

2)  It's dark as hell in there.  What do we have against lighting?

That said, I don't know what I'd want in a new arena.  I can say that the time I went to the joint in Arlington, and I think it was BRAND new at the time, it felt like a child's plaything or an amusement park or something.  I can't really say why, but it didn't feel like a "real" arena.  

Good things about it are that  it has suites and a club level, which seem to be requirements for the well heeled these days, and I like the idea of building up a bunch of restaurants and bars all around it, though I imagine doing that on the UNT campus would be difficult to say the least.  

What capacity should we have?  I'm going with a nice round five to six thousand.  Makes the occasional sell-out a possibility while not making Thursday night games appear to be  played in a morgue. 

[UNTFan23]

57 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

I have two gripes about the Super Pit:

1)  It's waaay too big.  10,000 capacity is ridiculous. 

2)  It's dark as hell in there.  What do we have against lighting?

What makes the SP seem so dark is two things - a black painted ceiling and dark green chairs. Both eat up tons of light. There's no need to light the place up like a Christmas tree.

There are plenty of arenas that appear dark because they focus all the lighting on the court.

 

 

 

 

[DeepGreen]

UNTFan23 wrote....

"What makes the SP seem so dark is two things - a black painted ceiling and dark green chairs. Both eat up tons of light. There's no need to light the place up like a Christmas tree.

There are plenty of arenas that appear dark because they focus all the lighting on the court."

Change the seating out to orange!

 

[EagleMBA]

3 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

UNTFan23 wrote....

"What makes the SP seem so dark is two things - a black painted ceiling and dark green chairs. Both eat up tons of light. There's no need to light the place up like a Christmas tree.

There are plenty of arenas that appear dark because they focus all the lighting on the court."

Change the seating out to orange!

 

LMAO! I remember the horrible orange seats and chipped in when we upgraded to green. I personally think that the dark background, both color and dimmer lighting, is better for the guys playing on the court (picking up the ball, depth perception, etc.). IMO, the spectators are supposed to be in lowered light.

[greenminer]

I actually like the size of the SP.  I know we don't currently have the history to support high attendance, but I like to think with consistent conference success and 1 or 2 deep post season runs*, we should be able to fill it up as a G5 at our size.

*edit: I'm thinking of S16 appearances in the NCAA or semifinal/final appearances in the NIT.

Edited February 20, 2017 by greenminer

[BTG_Fan1]

5 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

1. I have two gripes about the Super Pit:

1)  It's waaay too big.  10,000 capacity is ridiculous. 

2)  It's dark as hell in there.  What do we have against lighting?

That said, I don't know what I'd want in a new arena.  I can say that the time I went to the joint in Arlington, and I think it was BRAND new at the time, it felt like a child's plaything or an amusement park or something.  I can't really say why, but it didn't feel like a "real" arena.  

Good things about it are that  it has suites and a club level, which seem to be requirements for the well heeled these days, and I like the idea of building up a bunch of restaurants and bars all around it, though I imagine doing that on the UNT campus would be difficult to say the least.  

What capacity should we have?  I'm going with a nice round five to six thousand.  Makes the occasional sell-out a possibility while not making Thursday night games appear to be  played in a morgue. 

I do like the idea that was brought up earlier, to build it like the Allen Center. With that being said, I'd like to see the New SP be on the campus, this would make it easier and more convenient for students and fans. But I have no idea where they would build it if they did put it on the campus, without it replacing the current SP. I do understand wanting to have the new SP with the rest of the sports locations, but even out there is there enough room for development and expansion of current sports and in the future hopefully baseball?

I think having it between 5 and 6k is good enough for the short-term, but it needs to have space to allow it to be expanded easily if we did change conferences, or we hit it big in sports(hopefully). My worry is, if we do suites, how much do we charge? Will people buy them when we have seasons like we have with TB at the helm?

Also, I’d like to see the new SP have its own weight room as well.

[DeepGreen]

Reduce the new facility seating capacity by 10% of the capacity of the SP by increasing the width of the actual seats by 10%.  Some of the old nestors on here complain about the SP seats are not wide enough.  You know, to fit their butts.  Not me, of course.  My svelte body has no problem with the current SP seat widths.

[oldguystudent]

9 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Reduce the new facility seating capacity by 10% of the capacity of the SP by increasing the width of the actual seats by 10%.  Some of the old nestors on here complain about the SP seats are not wide enough.  You know, to fit their butts.  Not me, of course.  My svelte body has no problem with the current SP seat widths.

This is another point I forgot to mention.  The seats vary in width and legroom throughout the arena.  It's like an arena box of chocolates.  You never know what you gon git. 

[GrandGreen]

Most of the new arenas I have been to, are not too generous with their seat size.   Note, the original orange seats were chosen because they didn't want the darkness of green seats and the mission was then to change them to the school colors.  Now it is to make the coliseum brighter. I really don't understand all the criticisms of the lighting at the SP. The court lighting is all that matters as long as you can find your seats.   

The SP obviously is too big for current NT basketball, but it is a multi-use facility.   I believe the watching experience is fine at the SP, in fact I prefer it to the newer shiny arenas.   There are lots of things about the SP that could have been designed a lot better.   Obviously, no permanent ticket windows, no use for as many prime seats for the media, no suites,  poor seating for disabled, etc.    Lots of things that could be a lot better, but the most critical is getting competitive basketball teams.   The arena is secondary, and at this point I really don't see any immediate need for NT spending millions unless there is real danger of NT not having a place to play.      

 

   

 

[oldguystudent]

12 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I really don't understand all the criticisms of the lighting at the SP. 

   

 

It's pretty much just me, dude.  Not lots of people.  And it's not some life or death matter for me.  I just find it strange, but apparently from the litany of photos from other arenas, I just don't understand the basketball watching experience enough to know that virtually all of them are dark in the seating area.  Today I learned I guess.  Hurray for education via the internet! 

[mad dog]

The liability for knowingly hosting events in a structurally unsound facility is enormous.  Stuff like that can even bypass some kinds of immunity and open up to damages, which is where things really start to get painful.  If true, the administration would be much better served shuttering the facility and having games in the gym next door.  Since that's not happening, I'm assuming (hoping?) the structural concerns are either not significant or not valid.  If the data is solid, though, whoever the source is owes it to the people who frequent that building to gather their proof and make it an issue because people's lives are at stake.

On the upgrades, I'm not sure about ADA, but building code updates are periodically adopted by the city and generally grandfathered unless the footprint of the building changes.  I think I've seen one city attach special use permits to some building uses, which expire during a change in ownership or occupancy.  Then the new SUP would trigger the need to update code.  But in this case, neither the footprint, the owner, or the use is changing.  Unless Denton is doing something really aggressive, or there's some massive retroactively applicable bill that's passed down in Austin, I think the Pit is probably fine on updates for the foreseeable future.

[UNTLifer]

So, in all of these discussions, am I hearing this correctly.  Are there issues with the structural integrity of the building?

 

If not, here is what I would do:

1. Get rid of the "media row" seats that are in a prime location.

2.  Place a "ring of suites" around the top of the arena to include a press area, and a room to control the scoreboards, video boards, etc...  This would effectively remove say 10 rows of seats thus reducing capacity somewhat.

3. Install elevators to conform to ADA regulations and to access the suite level.

4.  Install permanent ticket windows

5.  Dress up the concourse area with improved concessions and a fan store accessible from outside when games are not being played.

6. Convert the downstairs gymnastics room in to a practice court.

7.  Permanent room for the MGC downstairs.

 

If all of this is cost prohibitive and the SP is structurally sound, I would implement the above in steps while the team improves.

Edited February 20, 2017 by UNTLifer

[UNTFan23]

44 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

So, in all of these discussions, am I hearing this correctly.  Are there issues with the structural integrity of the building?

 

If not, here is what I would do:

1. Get rid of the "media row" seats that are in a prime location.

2.  Place a "ring of suites" around the top of the arena to include a press area, and a room to control the scoreboards, video boards, etc...  This would effectively remove say 10 rows of seats thus reducing capacity somewhat.

3. Install elevators to conform to ADA regulations and to access the suite level.

4.  Install permanent ticket windows

5.  Dress up the concourse area with improved concessions and a fan store accessible from outside when games are not being played.

6. Convert the downstairs gymnastics room in to a practice court.

7.  Permanent room for the MGC downstairs.

 

If all of this is cost prohibitive and the SP is structurally sound, I would implement the above in steps while the team improves.

Keep in mind that Athletics does not own the facility so they are limited on what can be done in terms of upgrades. Reducing seats to add suites sounds like a good idea for basketball but is it a good idea for the facility as a whole? Basketball only uses the facility regularly for about four to five months out of the year.

Since the SP also houses classes, I'm not sure just "taking over" certain rooms to be dedicated to Athletics is possible without first finding comparable rooms in other parts of the campus to move those classes.

I believe the downstairs gymnastics room already has basketball hoops, they are just normally reclined up against the ceiling. What might the biggest challenge is finding a room in the SP that is a similar size as the gymnastics room to house the MGC.

If it were up to me, I'd move the concessions from underneath the stands on the inside of the concourse to new structures built along the outside of the course area. I'd build four of them, one on each side of the building that extend out from the current structure. A part of the concession stand buildings would house ticket windows. The only problem with my idea is now you have to move the Hall of Fame to either a different part of the SP or into a different building somewhere on campus.

With the concessions moved to the outside portion of the concourse, depending on the layout of the subterranean portion of the SP, you might have space to install 2 elevators where some of the concession stands once stood. Possibly while the elevators are being installed, you might be able to go about building the "stands" for the suites.

You could be looking at easily spending $20 to $30 on upgrades just to bring it closer to being what a brand new facility might provide. At those kinds of expenditures, it might be a better idea to build a new arena. Also, you risk the loss of use of the facility for extended periods of time for events like UNT and local HS graduation ceremonies while all these "improvements" are being done.

[James329]

Looks the same...

 

[GreenMachine]

1 hour ago, James329 said:

Looks the same...

 

I agree, can't tell a difference. I hate that low ceiling, wish we could change that aspect of the locker room.

[MeanGreen13]

I best they put in LEDs like the wbb locker room got. Also, they put up the graphics and added some electronics to some of the rows of lockers... Or so it seems. 

[cdizzle86]

3 hours ago, James329 said:

Looks the same...

 

I hate to be the negative one here, but every update they've made to the locker rooms in the past year looks half assed to me. 

[Cr1028]

12 hours ago, James329 said:

Looks the same...

 

It really is nice that everyday I can sit in my cubicle, look up at the ceiling and feel like I'm in a FBS football locker room.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

It really is nice that everyday I can sit in my cubicle, look up at the ceiling and feel like I'm in a FBS football locker room.

Somebody posted some pictures of OU's facility and how they liked the ceiling.  I laughed when one of the pictures was a drop ceiling painted black.

[BTG_Fan1]

11 hours ago, cdizzle86 said:

I hate to be the negative one here, but every update they've made to the locker rooms in the past year looks half assed to me. 

I don't get it either... The recruits that go to other schools talk about the locker rooms..

Heck maybe the only way it gets done is we donate with the only use for the money to be put into the locker room. 

--------------------------------

With us talking about improvements.. Look at what Brad Davis tweeted out about UF.. 

 

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Somebody posted some pictures of OU's facility and how they liked the ceiling.  I laughed when one of the pictures was a drop ceiling painted black.

Dang, you got me. I honestly didn't even realize it was a standard ceiling painted black.