Round 2 of Facilities Improvement Started

Stan R · February 13, 2017

On 2/10/2017 at 8:31 PM, GrandGreen said:

If we are spending 60 million on a new BB facility. That money could be used to finish out the wingzone area and finish out the bowl completely. Maybe add an additional 10K seats? Not saying that is a higher priority than a BB facility. Just bringing up the point. I honestly don't know which I'd prefer if I were making the call. I'm only voting for the BB facility if we get serious about BB in general.

Cerebus · February 13, 2017

If we had anywhere near the capacity to fund that much debt, we should use it to raise football staff salaries and the number of QC coaches. Getting help in marketing and in customer service would also be way before a new Super Pit IMHO.

Then, again, there is the fact that the University owns the Super Pit and runs it, not the athletics department. So they are the ones who decides when money is getting spent to replace it. With how for we are behind in needed lab space, and in parking, I don't think replacing the Super Pit is in the Universities Top 50 projects.

BTG_Fan1 · February 13, 2017

12 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Is it possible that the Super Pit must be upgraded to conform to ADA requirements? Being a state facility?

19 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Just FYI, and something that no one else has mentioned....the existing Super Pit has some handicapped accessibility issues as well.

12 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Code requirements were different back in the early 70s. For one, there wasn't the Americans for Disabilities Act, which didn't come into law until 1990.

I'm not sure of the dates, but what I have been told is that the Superpit was grandfathered in and didn't have to follow the ADA till the State of Texas required all places follow such rules. In my facilities class, it has been brought up that UNT is keeping the SP at the bare min to pass because of the cost to upgrade. We have been told that UNT view if they spends X in upgrades, is it really worth it if in the near future we build a new stadium.

Ryan Munthe · February 13, 2017

56 minutes ago, Stan R said:

If we are spending 60 million on a new BB facility. That money could be used to finish out the wingzone area and finish out the bowl completely. Maybe add an additional 10K seats? Not saying that is a higher priority than a BB facility. Just bringing up the point. I honestly don't know which I'd prefer if I were making the call. I'm only voting for the BB facility if we get serious about BB in general.

Why in god's name would we expand Apogee when we've never come close to a sell out

DeepGreen · February 13, 2017

At this point, men and women's basketball could move to the old snake pit (Mens Gym) and still not worry about filling it up.

UNTLifer · February 13, 2017

1 hour ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Yes, but the original Pit is fun and quirky. It is weird, in that it literally was a Pit. I would love to see a game there. The Super Pit is just a big, old, dark arena that is lucky to ever be 50% full for a basketball game.

Everyone talks about the attendance from the Johnny Jones days...we averaged about 5.5K at our best...games were incredibly fun, no doubt, but just sayin'...they'd be more fun in a less dingy and more intimate environment.

They were fun during the Blakeley era when attendance was better than the JJ era.

Matt from A700 · February 13, 2017

On 2/10/2017 at 5:25 PM, Withers940 said:

Plus, the Super Pit is the 9th wonder of the world

Come one and all, to see 9,000 empty seats!

GrandGreen · February 13, 2017

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many would like to see Fenway and the Boston Garden replaced. Not that the SP is in that category because it definitely is not. However, I don't particularly care for the McDonald's like new arenas, all bright, plastic, shiny and basically all look about the same.

I also wonder about people who think the SP is an eyesore, next to the Murchinson. I also ponder why NT has never made any attempt to make the outside more appealing. A little landscaping and imagination would go a long way in improving the street appeal.

Obviously, until NT turns this basketball program around, where they play doesn't really matter. A school of close to 40,000 that can't get over an 100 in the student section does not need a new basketball arena.

Until recently, SP was easily the best college arena in the area, UTA built a new one, and SMU and TCU had massive renovations. SMU's program has got substantially better due to a ton of money being spend on coaching, not a re-done Moody. UTA played in one of the worst facilities ever, but with a brand new arena and a much better team is still not averaging 2000 in attendance. TCU's program is still foundering.

Apparently, any major renovation or new facility, is years down the road for NT. So there will be a lot of time, to make the right decision.

Edited February 13, 2017 by GrandGreen

southsideguy · February 13, 2017

2 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

At this point, men and women's basketball could move to the old snake pit (Mens Gym) and still not worry about filling it up.

didnt they tear it down to build the student union building? Hey we could play our games in the volley ball gym and maybe sell that out or maybe the basketball practice facility would work its holds about five people. So sad what the basketball program has become.

97and03 · February 13, 2017

8 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

didnt they tear it down to build the student union building? Hey we could play our games in the volley ball gym and maybe sell that out or maybe the basketball practice facility would work its holds about five people. So sad what the basketball program has become.

No, different place on campus completely.

MeanGreen_MBA · February 13, 2017

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many would like to see Fenway and the Boston Garden replaced. Not that the SP is in that category because it definitely is not. However, I don't particularly care for the McDonald's like new arenas, all bright, plastic, shiny and basically all look about the same.

I also wonder about people who think the SP is an eyesore, next to the Murchinson. I also ponder why NT has never made any attempt to make the outside more appealing. A little landscaping and imagination would to a long way in improving the street appeal.

Obviously, until NT turns this basketball program around, where they play doesn't really matter. A school of close to 40,000 that can't get over an 100 in the student section does not need a new basketball arena.

Until recently, SP was easily the best college arena in the area, UTA build a new one, and SMU and TCU had massive renovations. SMU's program has got substantially better due to a ton of money being spend on coaching, not a re-done Moody. UTA played in one of the worst facility ever, but with a brand new area and a much better team is still not averaging 2000 in attendance. TCU's program is still foundering.

Apparently, any major renovation or new facility, is years down the road for NT. So there will be a lot of time, to make the right decision.

Ah, The Boston Garden was replaced.....not judging or anything.... The TD Garden now.....across the highway from the old Garden

http://www.tdgarden.com/

southsideguy · February 13, 2017

6 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

No, different place on campus completely.

Is it still on campus? where is it located?

UNTLifer · February 13, 2017

11 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

Is it still on campus? where is it located?

Across the street just north of the SP. It is now the Ken Bahnsen Gym.

Edited February 13, 2017 by UNTLifer

DeepGreen · February 13, 2017

I really didn't know if the Snake Pit was still there or not. Great games were played there during the MVC days.

GrandGreen · February 13, 2017

2 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Ah, The Boston Garden was replaced.....not judging or anything.... The TD Garden now.....across the highway from the old Garden

http://www.tdgarden.com/

Well, that was a bad example on my part.

KRAM1 · February 14, 2017

3 hours ago, southsideguy said:

Is it still on campus? where is it located?

Ha! Same place it always was located. Right across the street from the Super Pit and beside the outdoor rec tennis courts.

PlummMeanGreen · February 14, 2017

7 hours ago, Cerebus said:

If we had anywhere near the capacity to fund that much debt, we should use it to raise football staff salaries and the number of QC coaches. Getting help in marketing and in customer service would also be way before a new Super Pit IMHO.

Then, again, there is the fact that the University owns the Super Pit and runs it, not the athletics department. So they are the ones who decides when money is getting spent to replace it. With how for we are behind in needed lab space, and in parking, I don't think replacing the Super Pit is in the Universities Top 50 projects.

?

southsideguy · February 14, 2017

I must have walked past it on my way to class from cement city.

Edited February 14, 2017 by southsideguy

UNT Mean Green · February 14, 2017

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

If we had anywhere near the capacity to fund that much debt, we should use it to raise football staff salaries and the number of QC coaches. Getting help in marketing and in customer service would also be way before a new Super Pit IMHO.

Then, again, there is the fact that the University owns the Super Pit and runs it, not the athletics department. So they are the ones who decides when money is getting spent to replace it. With how for we are behind in needed lab space, and in parking, I don't think replacing the Super Pit is in the Universities Top 50 projects.

This would seem to be a key point. If the university has plans for replacing or renovating the Super Pit, they should do so at their discretion. The issue for our AD in this situation, is that the Super Pit does not offer any sort of premium seating areas (and the product in MBB has been extremely poor) to generate much of any revenue in this facility. The funding would surely come from the university, particularly given the fact that we are soon to undergo the largest athletics fundraising campaign in history with this IPF and Operations initiative?

MeanGreen1984 · February 14, 2017

10 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many would like to see Fenway and the Boston Garden replaced. Not that the SP is in that category because it definitely is not. However, I don't particularly care for the McDonald's like new arenas, all bright, plastic, shiny and basically all look about the same.

I also wonder about people who think the SP is an eyesore, next to the Murchinson. I also ponder why NT has never made any attempt to make the outside more appealing. A little landscaping and imagination would go a long way in improving the street appeal.

Obviously, until NT turns this basketball program around, where they play doesn't really matter. A school of close to 40,000 that can't get over an 100 in the student section does not need a new basketball arena.

Until recently, SP was easily the best college arena in the area, UTA built a new one, and SMU and TCU had massive renovations. SMU's program has got substantially better due to a ton of money being spend on coaching, not a re-done Moody. UTA played in one of the worst facilities ever, but with a brand new arena and a much better team is still not averaging 2000 in attendance. TCU's program is still foundering.

Apparently, any major renovation or new facility, is years down the road for NT. So there will be a lot of time, to make the right decision.

I would love to be "floundering" the way TCU is right now.

They pumped money into the program to get a great coach and turn an out of date arena into something they could showcase and be proud of.

And one year in they have a legitimate shot at being a tournament team.

Obviously totally different universities, donors and situations...but a great example of what a strong commitment can yield; much like SMU's decision to commit to becoming a successful basketball program.

TheWestie · February 14, 2017

#1 most important issue with The Super Pit from a University standpoint is ADA compliance.

There is no elevator in the building and to get from the concourse level to the arena floor you have to go outside and around to one of the tunnels. And those ramps are very steep. It was a huge pain in the ass dragging an 80 pound rolling camera bag up those ramps: I can't even imagine how awful it must be to try to muscle a wheelchair up that ramp by yourself. And beyond that, once you're down at arena floor level, I believe there is only one restroom downstairs that is ADA compliant. It's a unisex bathroom right across from the old gymnastics room/Mean Green Club hospitality room. The others restrooms downstairs are in the spare locker rooms and those have steps that you must step up to get to the toilets. Than once past that, the space you need to maneuver around in the toilet area probably isn't big enough for a wheelchair.

Revamping the spare locker rooms/bathroom aren't that big a project. Easy fix.

It will be a MAJOR undertaking to put in an elevator. A lot of the building is several feet thick of reinforced structural concrete and steel beams that the seating platforms rest on. Any elevator will have to be added on the outer side of the concourse ring, and because of the layout on the East side of the building, that means it'll have to be on the West side, where the Hall of Fame plaques are now. They could extend the concourse out that way and stick an elevator that comes down into one of the offices or something down there.

And The Super Pit is used all year round. It's not like it sits empty and abandoned outside of basketball season. It's used nearly every single day for about a solid month during graduation season in May and June. It's rented out for cheerleading competitions, UIL drill team contests, UIL robotics competitions, last year it was rented out by a church, it's where they host big draw Distinguished Lecture Series speakers, etc.

Shutting it down for a few months means a loss of revenue for that time period, so it's a project that can only be done once the University is in a financial position that it can go without or offset that lost money.

Point is, the building was grandfathered in and is not fully ADA-compliant. That makes it that much less desirable to rent out to potential renters.

oldguystudent · February 14, 2017

16 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Many would like to see Fenway and the Boston Garden replaced.

Fenway park is by far, bar none, the most physically uncomfortable ballpark I've ever been in. I was in pretty expensive corporate owned seats. The 1912 dimensions of this pretty expensive corporate owned wooden seat didn't contain my then 190 pound girth in width. And I measured -- from edge of my seat to back of set in front of me was four inches. Pretty much watched the whole game with my knees up against my chin.

The concessions had barely had any modifications done since 1912. The selections were pretzel, hot dog (Boston style on some weird mutated wonderbread concoction of a "bun"), soda, and beer. The bathrooms smelled like the house that Ruth pissed on. Place was pretty bad, and you could see how they'd crammed as many seats as possible into that bandbox of a ballpark.

But holy crap, what an experience. No water slides or hot tubs in the outfield, no sushi, no trophy girl arm ornaments stumbling about searching for a camera to show off their $20 aluminum bottle of Miller Lite and latest boob job. 40,000 fans who were, and I know this is unbelievable, there to watch and pay attention to nine innings of baseball.

I saw something I've never seen before and will likely never see again. The Cleveland pitcher threw the ball, the batter didn't swing. 40,000 Bostonians shout, in unison, "BALK!"

The umpire looked around, thought about it for a second, and sure as hell, called a balk on the pitcher.

Ugly, uncomfortable, smelly, dingy, overpriced stadium. Best baseball experience I've ever had.

FirefightnRick · February 14, 2017

12 hours ago, TheWestie said:

#1 most important issue with The Super Pit from a University standpoint is ADA compliance.

There is no elevator in the building and to get from the concourse level to the arena floor you have to go outside and around to one of the tunnels. And those ramps are very steep. It was a huge pain in the ass dragging an 80 pound rolling camera bag up those ramps: I can't even imagine how awful it must be to try to muscle a wheelchair up that ramp by yourself. And beyond that, once you're down at arena floor level, I believe there is only one restroom downstairs that is ADA compliant. It's a unisex bathroom right across from the old gymnastics room/Mean Green Club hospitality room. The others restrooms downstairs are in the spare locker rooms and those have steps that you must step up to get to the toilets. Than once past that, the space you need to maneuver around in the toilet area probably isn't big enough for a wheelchair.

Revamping the spare locker rooms/bathroom aren't that big a project. Easy fix.

It will be a MAJOR undertaking to put in an elevator. A lot of the building is several feet thick of reinforced structural concrete and steel beams that the seating platforms rest on. Any elevator will have to be added on the outer side of the concourse ring, and because of the layout on the East side of the building, that means it'll have to be on the West side, where the Hall of Fame plaques are now. They could extend the concourse out that way and stick an elevator that comes down into one of the offices or something down there.

And The Super Pit is used all year round. It's not like it sits empty and abandoned outside of basketball season. It's used nearly every single day for about a solid month during graduation season in May and June. It's rented out for cheerleading competitions, UIL drill team contests, UIL robotics competitions, last year it was rented out by a church, it's where they host big draw Distinguished Lecture Series speakers, etc.

Shutting it down for a few months means a loss of revenue for that time period, so it's a project that can only be done once the University is in a financial position that it can go without or offset that lost money.

Point is, the building was grandfathered in and is not fully ADA-compliant. That makes it that much less desirable to rent out to potential renters.

I bet it wasn't. It was no fun rolling this up and down the ramps alone. In fact I couldn't. I would walk around till I found basketball players, a coach or trainer, or a professor. Anyone willing to help me if I was without help.

image.png.89e159130091ba5e12bbc83a0db8208c.png

Rick

untcampbell · February 14, 2017

I am not usually the pile on guy, but you drew me in with this:

"And The Super Pit is used all year round. It's not like it sits empty and abandoned outside of basketball season."

In fact, it only sits empty and abandoned DURING basketball season.

#players(andfans)deservebetter

GMG

MeanGreenTexan · February 15, 2017

14 hours ago, untcampbell said:

I am not usually the pile on guy, but you drew me in with this:

"And The Super Pit is used all year round. It's not like it sits empty and abandoned outside of basketball season."

In fact, it only sits empty and abandoned DURING basketball season.

#players(andfans)deservebetter

GMG