Evaluating HS Defensive Linemen

[TreeFiddy]

Some general guidelines for HS recruits:

Keep in mind these are averages/guidelines across all DL positions and represent HS seniors

P5 Defensive Linemen

Height:  6-4
Weight:  260
40yd:  4.8
Bench:  315
Squat:  450

Intangibles:

Can overpower and/or out-quick HS offensive linemen any time he wants. Elite quick-twitch get off skills. Dominates the line of scrimmage and jumps off the screen during evaluation. Commands double-teams and still wins. Shows great technique and has developed some pass rush moves. Great footwork and leverage in the run game. Stuns and sheds blockers and can maintain a gap. Can penetrate at will. Typically Multiple-Time All-State Honoree with recognition from national recruiting media. Minimum Multi-year All Area/All District, All Conference Selection.

G5/High FCS Defensive Linemen

Height:  6-3
Weight:  240
40yd:  4.9
Bench:  305
Squat:  415

Intangibles:

May have not shown the production of an elite BCS caliber recruit, but college coaches at this level will still scholarship athletic or high school defensive linemen with tremendous size as they believe they can coach them up into productive college players. A prospect of this caliber demonstrates consistent ability to overpower or out-quick HS offensive linemen. Displays quick-twitch get off skills. Dominates the line of scrimmage. Commands double-teams and flashes the ability to defeat those combinations. Shows good technique and has developed at least one pass rush move. Good footwork and leverage in the run game. Stuns and sheds blockers and will maintain a gap. Can penetrate gaps. Some recognition from national recruiting media. Typically All Area/All District, All Conference Selection.

Low FCS/D2 Defensive Linemen

Height:  6-2
Weight:  230
40yd:  4.8
Bench:  305
Squat:  405

Intangibles:

Flashes ability to overpower or out-quick HS offensive linemen. Flashes quick-twitch get off skills. Controls the line of scrimmage. Good footwork and leverage in the run game. Can get off blocks. Flashes ability to penetrate gaps. Typically All Area or All Conference Selection.

Edited January 31, 2017 by TreeFiddy

[DT 90]

6 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Some general guidelines:

P5 Defensive Linemen

Height:  6-4
Weight:  260
40yd:  4.8
Bench:  315
Squat:  450

Intangibles:

Can overpower and/or out-quick HS offensive linemen any time he wants. Elite quick-twitch get off skills. Dominates the line of scrimmage and jumps off the screen during evaluation. Commands double-teams and still wins. Shows great technique and has developed some pass rush moves. Great footwork and leverage in the run game. Stuns and sheds blockers and can maintain a gap. Can penetrate at will. Typically Multiple-Time All-State Honoree with recognition from national recruiting media. Minimum Multi-year All Area/All District, All Conference Selection.

G5/High FCS Defensive Linemen

Height:  6-3
Weight:  240
40yd:  4.9
Bench:  305
Squat:  415

Intangibles:

May have not shown the production of an elite BCS caliber recruit, but college coaches at this level will still scholarship athletic or high school defensive linemen with tremendous size as they believe they can coach them up into productive college players. A prospect of this caliber demonstrates consistent ability to overpower or out-quick HS offensive linemen. Displays quick-twitch get off skills. Dominates the line of scrimmage. Commands double-teams and flashes the ability to defeat those combinations. Shows good technique and has developed at least one pass rush move. Good footwork and leverage in the run game. Stuns and sheds blockers and will maintain a gap. Can penetrate gaps. Some recognition from national recruiting media. Typically All Area/All District, All Conference Selection.

Low FCS/D2 Defensive Linemen

Height:  6-2
Weight:  230
40yd:  4.8
Bench:  305
Squat:  405

Intangibles:

Flashes ability to overpower or out-quick HS offensive linemen. Flashes quick-twitch get off skills. Controls the line of scrimmage. Good footwork and leverage in the run game. Can get off blocks. Flashes ability to penetrate gaps. Typically All Area or All Conference Selection.

DT 90 would have never played at North Texas.    Coming out of high school only weighed 225 Lbs and was only 6'3". 

Played 95% of defensive snaps his Sophmore year. Played his Senior year, started all 13 games, at 250 lbs.

[TreeFiddy]

1 minute ago, DT 90 said:

DT 90 would have never played at North Texas.    Coming out of high school only weighed 225 Lbs and was only 6'3". 

Played 95% of defensive snaps his Sophmore year. Played his Senior year, started all 13 games, at 250 lbs.

Agreed.  The measurables are just guidelines/averages.  If memory serves, DT90 bulked up into the 270 range his junior year and backed off to 250'ish his senior year.  Sounds like he was right in the expected range, maybe on the smallish side as a freshman, but quickly grew into the role.

How did his bench/squat/40 times compare?

[Wag Tag]

Seems to be the hardest position to recruit to in College football. FCS specs and add 30-40lbs you may have something for UNT!

[BillySee58]

Are these defensive end guidelines? Don't look like defensive tackle guidelines.

[TreeFiddy]

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Are these defensive end guidelines? Don't look like defensive tackle guidelines.

Agree.  Seem to be slanted toward non 1-techs for sure.  I think 1-techs would/should have a separate category.

[DT 90]

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

Agreed.  The measurables are just guidelines/averages.  If memory serves, DT90 bulked up into the 270 range his junior year and backed off to 250'ish his senior year.  Sounds like he was right in the expected range, maybe on the smallish side as a freshman, but quickly grew into the role.

How did his bench/squat/40 times compare?

He was recruited to play DE.  Bench 300 plus and ran 4.7 coming out of high school. Squat was never in that range, to many knee surgeries.    Clocked 4.59 40 and benched 225lbs 20 reps at Pro day..  

Your specs for top P5 Dlinemen weight should be in the 300+ range.

 

I have always said it easier to find a D1 caliber QB than it is to find a  D1 caliber Dlineman.  

Edited January 31, 2017 by DT 90

[TreeFiddy]

Just now, DT 90 said:

 Bench 300 plus and ran 4.7 coming out of high school. Squat was never in that range, to many knee surgeries.    Clocked 4.59 40 and benched 225lbs 20 reps at Pro day..  

Your specs for top P5 Dlinemen weight should be in the 300+ range.

 

I have always said it easier to find a D1 caliber QB than it is to find a  D1 caliber Dlineman.  

Oh, these are not my specs.  Just passing along what I found. Keep in mind these specs are high shool senior guidelines, not college seniors.  Agreed that the Dlineman numbers likely don't include 1-techs, maybe even 3-techs since they are typically much larger coming out of high school, especially 1-techs.

[BillySee58]

35 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Agree.  Seem to be slanted toward non 1-techs for sure.  I think 1-techs would/should have a separate category.

Even seem small for a 3-tech. Especially the non-P5 prospects.

[TreeFiddy]

For comparison sake, here are two schools typically thought of at the opposite ends of the P5 spectrum, Kansas and Alabama.

I don't have a way of knowing for sure if these are all scholarship players, but here is the freshman Dline players on their rosters:

Kansas

6-4  215  DE  FR
6-4  230  DE  FR
6-3  285  DT  FR

Avg 6-3.75 243lbs

Bammer

6-5  247  DE  FR
6-4  284  DE  FR
5-11 238 DT  FR
6-7  315  DT  FR

Avg 6-3.75 271lbs

You can see, even with including DEs and DTs for 2 different P5 programs the net result is that you still come in around the average weight that is listed.  I think the point that is getting missed is average and that you are dealing with HS seniors.  I bet yo find the numbers to be pretty close once you look across the entire group.

[BillySee58]

20 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

You do realize that there are also DEs that weigh 220 pounds that get recruited, right?  There are 2 DEs for every 3-tech and many 3-techs are converted DE recruits. 

I didn't see anywhere in your post where it said that was an average across the entire d-line. I read it as a typical d-line recruit, to which I was asking if this was more of a typical defensive end recruit, or what the deal was for the guideline.

Edited January 31, 2017 by BillySee58

[TreeFiddy]

1 minute ago, BillySee58 said:

I didn't see anywhere in your post where it said that was an average across the entire d-line. I read it as a typical d-line recruit, to which I was asking if this was more of a typical defensive end recruit, or what the deal was for the guideline.

I guess I would equate typical to be synonymous with average, but apologies for any confusion.  I will see if I can find information that breaks down DE vs DT vs DL in a meaningful way.  We all know there are exceptions to guidelines, which is what makes them merely guidelines.

However, when you start abstracting away the details of individual recruits into higher level categories it is easier to start seeing how coaches/recruiting services are able to start slotting players using tangible measurements and then refine those rankings using the intangibles.  It is also possible to start looking retroactively at players that received scholarships in the past at various levels of football and making some generalizations about what constitutes a typical recruit for a position group for each level of football.

[untjim1995]

The hardest part about finding defensive front seven players that can play is that Texas HS has gone to being very soft because of the spread and this fascination with 7 on 7. That's as big a reason as any as to why Texas college football is in terrible shape.

[DT 90]

12 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

The hardest part about finding defensive front seven players that can play is that Texas HS has gone to being very soft because of the spread and this fascination with 7 on 7. That's as big a reason as any as to why Texas college football is in terrible shape.

When the balls comes out as quick as it does now it doesn't matter what you have on the Dline. Have to be able to stop the run though.

There are some very fast, long, lean DEs out there.  See LSU's DEs.  6'5"- 6'6" 24Up5ish that run 4.6's.  WIllis at KSU 6'6" plus 270ish and very fast. Same type as  Oakman at Baylor, Garrett at A&M, Clowney now with Texans.