MGB: Sunday night recruiting tidbit

[p_phelps]

10 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Well, we could have an entire list of 3 star recruits...I would say "man this is a good class, but who knows because stars don't matter."

It's not about stars, it's about we clearly targeted kids and didn't close the deal. Most of our commitments we are the only D1 offer. That's not a major win. I'm disappointing in this staff right now.

Edited January 30, 2017 by p_phelps

[jtm0097]

I have followed the program since 2003, and I was enrolled at UNT during the entire Dodge tenure. He signed some decent players, but his high school coaching staff was terrible. It was clear they were in over their heads. Injuries and an incompetent AD didn't help the cause. I was dumb enough to believe the BS that Mac was selling to buy season tickets during his first 2 years. Mac was lazy on the recruiting trail, and had some questionable coaches on staff. I saw the writing on the wall, and didn't renew my tickets again until him and RV were gone. This is a younger staff, and they do seem to be bigger on the X and Os. I still have faith in this staff, and I will be renewing my tickets in the fall. Rome wasn't built in a day. 

[outoftown]

11 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Well, we could have an entire list of 3 star recruits...I would say "man this is a good class, but who knows because stars don't matter."

And that is true, it is possible to very much underperform with highly ranked classes (some don't show up, some get in trouble, some are overhyped, bad Xs and OS etc). On the other hand, you can outperform your ranking a good bit. But a good bit is it, miracles are miracles because they are unlikely. If you keep getting classes devoid of any 3 star players, sure you can get to bowls, but you will likely not be competing for conference championships anytime soon, even if you out perform the ranking a good bit, because you would have to insanely out perform it for that.

Edited January 30, 2017 by outoftown

[Army of Dad]

32 minutes ago, jtm0097 said:

I do like that we have kids committed to us from big  Texas high schools. Having success on the 5A/6A level in Texas will translate to the FBS level.

I don't necessarily agree. If we have a good recruit for our perceived level then maybe that translates.

I feel that many of those kids are coming out of football factories much closer to their individual ceilings than guys for smaller schools. This is probably more true at major metropolitan 5A/6A schools. 

[Huff]

I don't care how good you are with the x's and o's because if the guy across the field from you has better players it is going to be tough to win.   It appears that we are losing a lot of recruiting battles which often results in losing games at a later date. 

[outoftown]

That is a very good observation I also thought about. Pitty I can't plus one this.

[BillySee58]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Right now, Wilson is wearing Littrell's ass out in recruiting, beating Littrell in every single recruiting battle.

EVERY SINGLE ONE. 

 

 

This isn't an exaggeration. None of our recruits ever held an offer from UTSA.

[Monkeypox]

This. This. This. This. This.

[greenminer]

SDSU! I am always reminded of Marshal Faulk.  I am of the age where I just missed his college career, but I do remember him dancing around the NFL for years.

One of the best offensive weapons from the 1990s.

[eulessismore]

I was all fired up about the new Popeye's that I saw was opening between work (Train station park and ride anyway) and home.  Called the wife, "Honey, something I'd like to do is pick up some PFC on the way home, they've just opened a convenient location",  She, "Oh, that's a New Orleans style, too spicy for me", etc.  I pull in there anyway, thinking maybe I'll get something just for me.  So, turns out it's not really opening, a crew is just finishing up striping the parking lot; they signal me to leave.  So, all I got is some paint on my tire tread...maybe.

So, I've been thinking about this.  Since we don't have a mens basketball program we'd want any football recruit to be around, where would I take a prospective UNT football player when in Denton?  I'm telling you, if my old friend Dave still has the Ranchman's Cafe going, I'd take him there...which is in Ponder, mind you, not Denton.  So, what would you guys do, you know, to compete with San Diego.  Hey, beat Houston at recruiting? I think I could, I think I could.

Why come to Denton?  Abner Haynes mentioned this in the PBS special, "When We Were all Broncos"; "it's a place where if you want to be a part of things, you can, it's up to you", I'm not sure those were his exact words, but you get the idea.  

[MeanGreen22]

30 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

This isn't an exaggeration. None of our recruits ever held an offer from UTSA.

Woolen

Harris

Vallair

 

The only players committed to either team with both schools offering... all 3 committed to UTSA. They are kicking our butts on the recruiting trail and there's no way to sugar coat that. 

[FirefightnRick]

Remind me again...didn't Dodge recruit Dunbar, Orr, Robertson, Lemon and Olawale?

 

Rick

[BillySee58]

18 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Remind me again...didn't Dodge recruit Dunbar, Orr, Robertson, Lemon and Olawale?

 

Rick

Robertson was brought in by Dickey and Lemon was Mccarney, as Tasty mentioned

[wardly]

Looks like our HOD Bowl exposure was worth zip in recruiting..

[FirefightnRick]

Ok..so Dodge only recruited 3 players to make it to the NFL.  

Then there's Derek Thompson, Abbé, Chancelor and the rest of the Dodge signings that won in 2013.

I know he deserves the criticism for the losses, bad defense and poor management of the team but it seems to me Dodge was our last successful recruiter and evaluator of talent?

 

Rick

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[PlummMeanGreen]

How fast will it take for some to do a 180  if Seth & company hit a grand slam in the 9'th inning for this recruiting class?  ?

We all wanted 5 star recruits galore,  but some of our best teams were a group of 2 star unknowns that became at least 3 stars at the college level that became bowl teams.  We've had 6 bowl teams since 2000--not world beating but hardly the kind of half century  walk in the wilderness of the pre Bill Snyder Kansas St. football program, either.

Our problem for many of our alum's multi-decade adult lives has been in who we hire.  The last coach should have been encouraged to resign when his health hit the skids--he didn't, I believe the ever present  dark cloud of having a stroke  affected his performance & UNT gets stuck with yet another contract buyout.  All this while a brand spanking new stadium sat there on our west campus waiting for someone to recruit toward it. We'd become  a haven of rest for many & the W/L records back it up.

➡️ No matter how good our class is this week I still feel UNT should go into pro-active over-drive & (still) hire away whatever assistant coach/recruiter from said opponent school who is giving us fits on the recruiting trails.  That assistant who is loading his present school with 3 star recruits galore (& legally).   There is no rule that says we can't do such.  Recruiting is a contact sport.

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[NorthTexan95]

9 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Future games?  We weren't that competitive in San Antonio last season.  NutsaK was the superior team.  This year's recruiting will help them continue "curb stomping" us.

We recruit at the FCS level.  We run athletics at the FCS level.  Maybe that's where we should be.

The biggest difference in last year's game was UTSA lucked into a good walk-on quarterback while we struggled with a true freshman.  

[NorthTexan95]

1 hour ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

How fast will it take for some to do a 180  if Seth & company hit a grand slam in the 9'th inning for this recruiting class?  ?

We all wanted 5 star recruits galore,  but some of our best teams were a group of 2 star unknowns that became at least 3 stars at the college level that became bowl teams.  We've had 6 bowl teams since 2000--not world beating but hardly the kind of half century  walk in the wilderness of the pre Bill Snyder Kansas St. football program, either.

Our problem for many of our alum's multi-decade adult lives has been in who we hire.  The last coach should have been encouraged to resign when his health hit the skids--he didn't, I believe the ever present  dark cloud of having a stroke  affected his performance & UNT gets stuck with yet another contract buyout.  All this while a brand spanking new stadium sat there on our west campus waiting for someone to recruit toward it. We'd become  a haven of rest for many & the W/L records back it up.

➡️ No matter how good our class is this week I still feel UNT should go into pro-active over-drive & (still) hire away whatever assistant coach/recruiter from said opponent school who is giving us fits on the recruiting trails.  That assistant who is loading his present school with 3 star recruits galore (& legally).   There is no rule that says we can't do such.  Recruiting is a contact sport.

 

It's more likely the turnaround will happen next season if we go ... say 7-5 and challenge for the conference title.  Then we can all sit back and say "See, stars don't matter".  

I expected recruiting to be going better this year but I'm not totally surprised at the results so far. I think Seth will make changes to recruiting if he sees that needs to be done.  I believe it's going to be a slow process with classes slowly getting better year by year.

Samuel Barnes is a 3 start that just signed with UTSA.  He supposedly had offers from about 20 mostly P5 schools ... yet he choose UTSA.  Jaylen Haynes had multiple P5 offers and choose UTSA.  Perhaps they were everyone's second or third choice and things just never worked out for them.  Maybe they wanted to stay really close to home.  Maybe there is an issue there with grades or something else.   UTSA is putting together a good class but it will be interesting to see how many actually make it to campus in the fall and/or are still there a year from now. 

[djohnnie]

It is concerning we cant seem to find a coach that can recruit here less Dodge. He had trouble coaching on the field talent. It would be nice to be able to find a coach that could do both. It is obviously difficult to recruit here with the number of division one teams in our state, but is it impossible? I say no! It is clearly harder that any one of us would like to admit, though. 

[outoftown]

2 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

How fast will it take for some to do a 180  if Seth & company hit a grand slam in the 9'th inning for this recruiting class?  ?

Fast in my case. I am not ashamed of that. I look at the evidence and if I get unexpected new evidence I take it into account and change my opinion. Normal and reasonable learning process. However, right now I do have to say, that multiple home runs in the ninth inning don't seem hyper likely to me. Hope I am wrong. But I just am not a "hope for the best" type of guy. I only take what I can see as evidence, and so far (with only three days to go) this class has intangibles and is balanced, but otherwise it is just not much to look at.

Edited January 30, 2017 by outoftown

[PlummMeanGreen]

Great research to make your point, TTG.   Feel better?  

My North Texas experience as a student apparently different than many.   I actually witnessed 4 winning seasons in a row & still have our 1975 season as the bell cow as far as what & where a school approaching 40K students with a quarter of a million North Texas Exes in DFW should be.  

I hope we have a good day on Wednesday no matter what the reviews & reviewers are saying now. I think we all want that.

GMG!

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

This. Always the same people. What's the definition of insanity per Einstein? Definitely applies here. 

This is a bad, bad sign for this staff going forward. A staff can either recruit or they can't. UNT is (sadly) coming off one of their better seasons the past 12 years and so far hasn't been able to recruit better than a mid-tier Sun Belt member. I doubt this staff does much better next year, no matter what happens on the field. You either can or you can't. UTSA's identically new staff has proven they can, and will be playing for conference titles down the road.

Maybe there are huge surprises over the next 3 days that turn this class around. Absent those surprises, this is one of the worst recruiting classes (considering the circumstances) in the past 12 years.

Not what should be expected for a "savior" coach.

 

 

 

[TreeFiddy]

[BillySee58]

3 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

The last coach should have been encouraged to resign when his health hit the skids--he didn't, I believe the ever present  dark cloud of having a stroke  affected his performance & UNT gets stuck with yet another contract buyout.  All this while a brand spanking new stadium sat there on our west campus waiting for someone to recruit toward it. We'd become  a haven of rest for many & the W/L records back it up.

I don't buy that for a second. Mccarney's best season on the field (2013 bowl season) happened a year and a half after his stroke. Also, his best recruiting classes in terms of getting recruits who other schools actually wanted came after the stroke as well, in 2014 and 2015. 

His worst class was before the stroke, in 2012. 12 of the 22 kids he signed had zero other FBS offers, and another 5 had just one other FBS offer. We weren't outrecruiting anyone that year, and the stroke wasn't a factor during the recruiting as it hadn't happened yet. And that class ended up being the senior class for the 1-11 team.

Quote

➡️ No matter how good our class is this week I still feel UNT should go into pro-active over-drive & (still) hire away whatever assistant coach/recruiter from said opponent school who is giving us fits on the recruiting trails. 

The coaches who are giving us fits right now are every single coach who wants a kid we do, it seems. We haven't won a legitimate head-to-head recruiting battle since dead period ended.

[Eagle-96]

I'm just tired of the old "We are a sleeping giant" phrase that gets tossed around here(trust me I have been guilty of it too). This m-effin(here's to you DD) giant should be plenty rested by now. Get this giant some coffee please. It's ALWAYS; "wait 'til next year", "Give(insert coaches name here) a full recruiting cycle.", "This is a system guy", "If he were 2 inches taller, he would have infinite P5 offers". I'm sick of the same old thing with UNT recruiting and the inevitable on-field results that follow the annual 100+ recruiting ranking. Four Conference championships didn't help. HOD Bowl's didn't help. Apogee didn't help. NOTHING seems to help. The big albatross around our collective neck is LOSING. We have lost A LOT of games and recruits take notice. I have been going to games for 24 years and have witnessed five seasons above 500. FIVE SEASONS. I can't even consider myself long suffering as there are many posters and lurkers that have endured much much more. I feel like the guy complaining that he lost some shingles in the tornado when my neighbor had his house flattened. Actually that's not accurate. I am complaining about my lawn furniture being blown over when my neighbors have there house destroyed year after year after year after year. I've been kicked in the nuts so many times that it just doesn't hurt anymore. I honestly think that the giant doesn't give a $hit anymore and is just gonna sleep. I'm out of ideas on how to "turn this thing around". For those that say that the recruit rankings don't matter then why have we had 19 losing seasons in the last 24 years coupled with recruit rankings in the 100+ range. I'll hang up myself and listen.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Eagle-96