170 games under .500

BillySee58 · January 29, 2017

A milestone in losing was reached last night. As some of you may remember, I used to track the combined record of all the coaches in the three revenue sports at UNT who RV hired and started their careers in the past decade. I took a look recently giving more losing seasons. Last night that collection of coaches passed 350 losses and fell to 170 games under .500.

This thread is not created to bash RV, but is pertinent given that he was the AD for all of our current hirings, and men's basketball will likely be Wren's first big coach hiring. Hard to really tie RV to Littrell given that Smatresk let RV go ASAP, as soon as the school year ended, so it's obvious that the decision was only marginally going to be influenced by an AD on his way out, but still.

Anyways, here are the records of the coaches in the big three sports who RV hired and started their tenure in the past decade:

WBB:
- 25-67 Stephens (2008-2011)
- 15-16 Aston (2011-2012)
- 28-61 Peterson (2012-2015)
- 11-19 Jalie Mitchell (2015-2016)
- 6-14 Jalie Mitchell (2016-2017)

85-177 total

MBB:
- 12-20 Benford (2012-2013)
- 16-16 Benford (2013-2014)
- 14-17 Benford (2014-2015)
- 12-20 Benford (2015-2016)
- 6-15 Benford (2016-2017)

60-88 total

Football:
- 6-37 Dodge (2007-2010)
- 22-32 Mccarney (2011-2015)
- 3-9 Canales (2010, 2015)*
- 5-8 Littrell (2016)

33-77 total
*36-86 total including Canales

Total:
178-342
*181-351 including Canales
170 games under .500

Barring a miraculous winning streak by either basketball team, we're looking at 1 winning season out of 24 seasons between these coaches.

If you're still reading, again, this is not to bash on RV but to emphasize the change in culture we still need. That 1 winning season resulted in a contract extension where the coach we extended never won another road game and we had to pay over $2 mill in buyout money. And Benford is 0-9 in conference and well on the way to another 20 loss season, when he should've been gone before no later than after the 2014-2015 season.

Jalie Mitchell and Seth Littrell still have good chances to be plenty successful here, but the standard needs to be raised regardless. We need Baker to know when to cut our losses with coaches, only extend coaches once they have earned it and/or it's dictated by the market, and not be so awful at hiring. For things to have gotten to this point is beyond ridiculous. Raising our standards is not too much to ask for and should be something Baker starts establishing now.

MeanMag · January 29, 2017

Was Johnny Jones not an RV hire?

GrandGreen · January 29, 2017

Excluding Jones by making it the last decade results is a little unfair However, it would not significantly change the numbers.]

RV was unqualified and never should have been hired, but he didn't hire himself and extend his own contracts. He actually has also hit on some good non-revenue sports hires and had horribles misses on others.

I also doubt RV had much to do with Littrell, good or bad. Mitchell hopefully will turn out great, but there were for more qualified coaches that could have been hired.

Army of Dad · January 29, 2017

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

track the combined record of all the coaches in the three revenue sports at UNT who RV hired and started their careers in the past decade.

1 hour ago, MeanMag said:

Was Johnny Jones not an RV hire?

See above

BillySee58 · January 29, 2017

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Excluding Jones by making it the last decade results is a little unfair However, it would not significantly change the numbers.]

How is that unfair?

1. This sample size is 8 consecutively hired coaches spanning 24 seasons.

2. Jones was hired almost 16 years ago and has been gone for half a decade. I'm trying to emphasize the state of our athletics and where the current metaphorical bar is going in to Wren's first big hire.

KRAM1 · January 29, 2017

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

How is that unfair?

1. This sample size is 8 consecutively hired coaches spanning 24 seasons.

2. Jones was hired almost 16 years ago and has been gone for half a decade. I'm trying to emphasize the state of our athletics and where the current metaphorical bar is going in to Wren's first big hire.

And...before anyone asks...NO Wren Baker did not hire Seth Littrell.

untjim1995 · February 1, 2017

RV was the perfect guy for the BOR for a decade...he came in under budget, never caused a stink publically, and he glad-handed the BOR on a regular basis. Then, after hiring Todd Dodge, Dodge started losing badly, but he also kept reminding everyone that he was promised a new stadium. That stadium, due to the leadership of UNTFlyer, miraculously passed and the fee was set up, albeit at the much lower rate than others were charging in the state at public G5 schools. Then, RV, sensing the need for more insulation, with all of the colossal losing going on, got 17 people to pay for stuff and keep him protected. And it worked, until Portland State showed up and massacred us. The 17 bought out MCCarney immediately, but also began the process of tying the rope that would go over RV's neck. He swindled this place for years and was extended by that BOR for absolutely no other reason than staying in budget. These numbers aren't surprising. He couldn't fundraise, he couldn't hire good coaches for revenue sports, and he couldn't schedule for crap. At any other place in America, he would have been there as the AD for 3-4 years, tops. But here, he got 12. And it's damn near amazing that he isn't still here now--it's the FIRST time that I've seen this place put some effort toward athletics and I've only been around here since 1990...

UNT90 · February 1, 2017

On 1/29/2017 at 1:46 PM, KRAM1 said:

And...before anyone asks...NO Wren Baker did not hire Seth Littrell.

And UNT's refusal to fire RV at the same time as DMac led to an AD being saddled with a coach that he didn't pick.

Only at UNT is RV allowed to hang around for 15 years and then completely cut out of the coaching hire process and not fired.

You want to know why UNT continuously sucks? Look at great management decisions such as this.

KRAM1 · February 1, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And UNT's refusal to fire RV at the same time as DMac led to an AD being saddled with a coach that he didn't pick.

Only at UNT is RV allowed to hang around for 15 years and then completely cut out of the coaching hire process and not fired.

You want to know why UNT continuously sucks? Look at great management decisions such as this.

"Saddled with"? These guys are both Okies and seem to be working extremely well together. Could it be even remotely possible in your mind that Wren is very happy with Seth Littrell and is more than pleased with his selection even though Seth was hired prior to his arrival? Is that even a remote possibility for you?

So, you are saying the Littrell hire was a bad one just because it was a done before Wren got here? Because in your mind it was a "bad management decision"? The early hire makes the Littrell hire a bad one?

Do I have this correct according to you?

UNT90 · February 1, 2017

10 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

"Saddled with"? These guys are both Okies and seem to be working extremely well together. Could it be even remotely possible in your mind that Wren is very happy with Seth Littrell and is more than pleased with his selection even though Seth was hired prior to his arrival? Is that even a remote possibility for you?

So, you are saying the Littrell hire was a bad one just because it was a done before Wren got here? Because in your mind it was a "bad management decision"? The early hire makes the Littrell hire a bad one?

Do I have this correct according to you?

Hiring a head coach before you hire an AD is idiotic and a terrible management decision. But UNT didn't have the balls to get rid of RV at the time. Another terrible management decision, as he was allowed to schedule a couple of more awful home football games between DMac's firing and his own.

Has it occurred to you that you have zero freaking idea what Baker's true feelings are about Littrell? Because he would never, ever, tell you? Do you understand that?

Edited February 1, 2017 by UNT90

KRAM1 · February 1, 2017

10 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Has it occurred to you that you have zero freaking idea what Baker's true feelings are about Littrell? Because he would never, ever, tell you? Do you understand that?

Ahem.....right back at ya!

And, of course, you didn't answer the question...rarely do. You think the Littrell hire was a bad hire or not simply because Wren Baker didn't make it? Let me make it really simple for you....Do you think the Seth Littrell hire was a good one or not?

UNT90 · February 1, 2017

8 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

Ahem.....right back at ya!

And, of course, you didn't answer the question...rarely do. You think the Littrell hire was a bad hire or not simply because Wren Baker didn't make it? Let me make it really simple for you....Do you think the Seth Littrell hire was a good one or not?

Jury is still out, but this recruiting class indicates that this may be a very bad hire.

And no crap. I obviously have zero idea how Baker feels about Littrell, but I promise you if he were to tell you his true feelings, he would tell you that he is very disappointed in this recruiting class.

Edited February 1, 2017 by UNT90