Anyone else concerned by the amount of Blueshirts?

GMG24 · January 25, 2017

I know they're HS kids and they still get 5/4 but their scholarship counts toward the next class, unless they redshirt you're going to lose scholarships down the road with smaller classes. I get that he has to remake the roster just to get us to a decent number of ship players, just wondering if anyone else is concerned with the #? I think we are at 4/5 blueshirts by my count.

BillySee58 · January 25, 2017

I'm concerned with the roster management so far. If the dudes end up being good then it's not as big a deal. If not enough are good then we could run into more depth issues and inability to get close to 85 scholarship guys.

TreeFiddy · January 25, 2017

this staff is agressively trying to turn this ship around that is for sure. There is high risk, let's hope their is also a high reward.

97and03 · January 25, 2017

Somewhat ok with high school blue shirts. Less ok with juco.

BTG_Fan1 · January 25, 2017

I know people have posted about the # of upper classman and lower and how it differs. But I think how SL and the staff are view it with these blue-shirts is in the future either 1) they will just have to enjoy a class of 15-20 kids, or 2) that they won't be here when they have to deal with it. Also, the staff has earned my trust in terms of what they have done in just 1 year. I'm sure the staff has figured out ways of getting by and ways to manage it as well. I mean a lot of people here, just before the dead period were freaking out that this staff couldn't recruit and now we may have to many guys?

(Not to get to far off topic, but the 30 for 30 about "The U", Butch Davis talked about how when the football program lost scholarship they would offer to players like S.Moss a track scholarship and then let the kid walk onto the football team, with Moss playing football and running track. I'm not sure if that can be done, but that could be one way to make up for it in the future possibly? )

I'm honestly glad they are bringing in Blueshirts like Tibbs, Roberts(who are the known Blue-shirt players.) Tibbs I think can play Day 1 possibly as a rotation guy, while Roberts I think is someone we RS. With Roberts I view it as we are getting a player with a year of development a year early(if that makes sense.) Also, we are losing a lot of talent with graduations from Keena, Scott, Buyers, TT, Morris, Combs, Finney, Hood, Gray, and Davis. I would much rather burn a few scholarships from next year if it aids us this time next year when we lose Mclain, Jenks, Wheeler, Fluche, Henson, etc. Because it will mean instead of having to plug guys in then with no experience(True Freshman) at least some of these guys will have some experience, let alone a whole year in the system.

Also, I think with our recent history of success at UNT, if kids are willing to come here just because of the bowl game and the APR, sale it and bring them in. Because maybe next year we don't have that pitch to use anymore and can't bring in some of these kids.

Caw Caw · January 25, 2017

We also haven't stopped the scholarship player bleeding. Ivery, Goree, etc. We just need to boslter our numbers for these next couple of years. Obviously we have to get to where we're keeping the kids around, or else the gamble goes to shit.

NorthTexan95 · January 25, 2017

6 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

(Not to get to far off topic, but the 30 for 30 about "The U", Butch Davis talked about how when the football program lost scholarship they would offer to players like S.Moss a track scholarship and then let the kid walk onto the football team, with Moss playing football and running track. I'm not sure if that can be done, but that could be one way to make up for it in the future possibly? )

I'm almost positive that can't be done anymore. I believe it would have to be counted as a football scholly. I could be wrong, though.

UNT Mean Green · January 25, 2017

No concern here. It's all about improving the overall talent and quantity of quality depth on the roster. The staff is being very creative, and quite frankly doing a nice job of selling these kids and their families on this Blueshirt concept.

I'm not certain if people can't recognize the lack of depth and talent on the 2016 roster that this staff played the season with. There MAY have been 3 dozen players who were talented enough to earn a scholarship off this staff's evaluation, and they signed almost 2 dozen of those. That's not to knock the kids, and several of those made positive contributions, but that's just the reality of the hand they were dealt. With that, the plan is clearly evident (and quite frankly necessary), and it makes a lot of sense.

Cr1028 · January 25, 2017

7 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I mean a lot of people here, just before the dead period were freaking out that this staff couldn't recruit and now we may have to many guys?

I thought they were concerned with the quality of the recruits and not the quantity. Am I wrong?

Wag Tag · January 25, 2017

From a talent evaluation standpoint I don't see any difference in BS to RS as a freshman. Staff is saying put these kids in our training program and in a year we will have a good player! The big question is in a year how successful are the BS.

BillySee58 · January 25, 2017

7 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I mean a lot of people here, just before the dead period were freaking out that this staff couldn't recruit and now we may have to many guys?

Hold on a second; no one ever questioned their ability to get commitments overall. The concern was and still is regarding their ability to win recruiting battles. Anyone could get commits from guys who don't have any other FBS offers.

So far, since dead period ended we've received five commitments. Those five commits have a combined four FBS offers from schools not named North Texas. Tibbs, Roberts, and Gieser all have zero other FBS offers. I get that they're likely blueshirting, but that's still seems to be more of the common commit for us, rather than an outlier.

We "flipped" Parish from Texas State but they already have six offensive-line commits, including four tackles so it appears the split was mutual as Parish hasn't listed himself as a Texas State commit for some time. His other offer was from New Mexico.

Brammer also had offers from New Mexico and Rice but those offers were 7 and 8 months old so it's not likely they were still recruiting him.

That's where the concern stems from. We're just getting recruits uncontested. It's a little too similar to the Mccarney era. We supposedly have a fun, young staff to play for, are "on the rise," have good facilities and a nice stadium, and have location in our favor, yet kids aren't picking us over other schools who want them at nearly a high enough rate.

Quote

(Not to get to far off topic, but the 30 for 30 about "The U", Butch Davis talked about how when the football program lost scholarship they would offer to players like S.Moss a track scholarship and then let the kid walk onto the football team, with Moss playing football and running track. I'm not sure if that can be done, but that could be one way to make up for it in the future possibly? )

Yeah, you can't do this anymore. If a student-athlete is on scholarship and they play more than one sport with football being one of the sports, then the scholarship has to count towards football.

4 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

From a talent evaluation standpoint I don't see any difference in BS to RS as a freshman. Staff is saying put these kids in our training program and in a year we will have a good player! The big question is in a year how successful are the BS.

Just to be clear, blueshirts don't have to redshirt their first year. They can play right off the bat like any other freshmen, and they are at no disadvantage from a practice standpoint.

However, these are typically going to be kids with no other FBS offers or maybe one other offer from a school like ULM who you aren't scared of losing them to. We have that leverage in asking them to blueshirt, since their option is either blueshirt with you or not sign with an FBS school.

Wag Tag · January 25, 2017

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

Hold on a second; no one ever questioned their ability to get commitments overall. The concern was and still is regarding their ability to win recruiting battles. Anyone could get commits from guys who don't have any other FBS offers.

So far, since dead period ended we've received five commitments. Those five commits have a combined four FBS offers from schools not named North Texas. Tibbs, Roberts, and Gieser all have zero other FBS offers. I get that they're likely blueshirting, but that's still seems to be more of the common commit for us, rather than an outlier.

We "flipped" Parish from Texas State but they already have six offensive-line commits, including four tackles so it appears the split was mutual as Parish hasn't listed himself as a Texas State commit for some time. His other offer was from New Mexico.

Brammer also had offers from New Mexico and Rice but those offers were 7 and 8 months old so it's not likely they were still recruiting him.

That's where the concern stems from. We're just getting recruits uncontested. It's a little too similar to the Mccarney era. We supposedly have a fun, young staff to play for, are "on the rise," have good facilities and a nice stadium, and have location in our favor, yet kids aren't picking us over other schools who want them at nearly a high enough rate.

Yeah, you can't do this anymore. If a student-athlete is on scholarship and they play more than one sport with football being one of the sports, then the scholarship has to count towards football.

Just to be clear, blueshirts don't have to redshirt their first year. They can play right off the bat like any other freshmen, and they are at no disadvantage from a practice standpoint.

However, these are typically going to be kids with no other FBS offers or maybe one other offer from a school like ULM who you aren't scared of losing them to. We have that leverage in asking them to blueshirt, since their option is either blueshirt with you or not sign with an FBS school.

Understand, but it also gives us the flexibility to take them off BS and scolly them this year to free up spots for next year? Hope that is not the case and we get the players we want for the slots. By the way ULM is 10 slots ahead of us on a national ranking.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Wag Tag

MeanGreenTexan · January 25, 2017

I am.

Army of Dad · January 25, 2017

1 hour ago, UNT Mean Green said:

There MAY have been 3 dozen players who were talented enough to earn a scholarship off this staff's evaluation, and they signed almost 2 dozen of those.

So which 12 were talented enough for that staff to award them scholarships?

How about two from ST, Moore and Keena. That leaves you only 10 more guys tops since you said "may".

So who are your 10?

Edited January 25, 2017 by Army of Dad

MeanGreenHoops · January 25, 2017

Concerning if the players don't end up contributing. If they do, then it's a good way to short term bolster scholarship numbers that were low.

GMG24 · January 25, 2017

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

Concerning if the players don't end up contributing. If they do, then it's a good way to short term bolster scholarship numbers that were low.

I agree, My hope is that most of them can redshirt thus getting us a full five years of depth from them, one or two for Practice and 3 years of play. I love the kids tape who we have blueshirted for sure. I am not knocking staff's evaluation in anyway, just a tad concerned about future class signings. Maybe they are looking at getting to 85 as fast as possible then in 2-3 years take one small class after they've won and can "go get" better recruits. That last part is pure speculation on my part.

MGNation92 · January 25, 2017

26 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I agree, My hope is that most of them can redshirt thus getting us a full five years of depth from them, one or two for Practice and 3 years of play. I love the kids tape who we have blueshirted for sure. I am not knocking staff's evaluation in anyway, just a tad concerned about future class signings. Maybe they are looking at getting to 85 as fast as possible then in 2-3 years take one small class after they've won and can "go get" better recruits. That last part is pure speculation on my part.

I think that's the key here. Blueshirting them now while also redshirting them for the first season means they are on the roster, lifting weights, practicing with the team making them much more capable and ready come their RS Freshman season. Allows them to contribute immediately in their class

UNT Mean Green · January 25, 2017

29 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I agree, My hope is that most of them can redshirt thus getting us a full five years of depth from them, one or two for Practice and 3 years of play. I love the kids tape who we have blueshirted for sure. I am not knocking staff's evaluation in anyway, just a tad concerned about future class signings. Maybe they are looking at getting to 85 as fast as possible then in 2-3 years take one small class after they've won and can "go get" better recruits. That last part is pure speculation on my part.

Yes.

UNTLifer · January 25, 2017

Someone explain to me the concern over blue-shirts and not being concerned if we sign a young man and red-shirt him? I am not following the future roster concern statement and may be missing something.

MeanGreenTexan · January 25, 2017

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Someone explain to me the concern over blue-shirts and not being concerned if we sign a young man and red-shirt him? I am not following the future roster concern statement and may be missing something.

To me, if you believe a player is good enough to contribute/play for you, you offer him now.
If these guys don't pan out, all you do is hamstring 2018's class with their dead weight.
It seems a little short-sighted as well, since you don't really know who will be available, or break out this fall. What if you identify several players next fall you like better than the ones you just blue-shirted? Can't guarantee you'll have spots for them because you're already tied to these blueshirt guys in the 2018 class.

...That's the concern.

On the flipside, getting these guys in, and having their eligibility clock extended for an extra season, while redshirting/lifting/practicing is a nice tactic to take 'projects' and turn them into contributors without losing eligibility. If these guys turn out to be nice players, then it's worth it. But there's no guarantee of that.

...Certainly a risk/reward situation.

Harry · January 25, 2017

I think this is just a way to keep some quality players in the pipeline in a low number year. I am fine with it.

forevereagle · January 25, 2017

If we don't fill out this class, could a BS sign this year and add that spot back to next season? Just curious if that is an option if we don't hit on a couple of guys.

GMG24 · January 25, 2017

9 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

If we don't fill out this class, could a BS sign this year and add that spot back to next season? Just curious if that is an option if we don't hit on a couple of guys.

Yes it is.

forevereagle · January 25, 2017

4 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Yes it is.

Good to know. Not feeling great about a lot of BS guys, but I understand where the staff is coming from. Would probably be better if we got that number to 2-3, but we will just have to wait and see what the class looks like when we are done.

GMG24 · January 25, 2017

19 minutes ago, forevereagle said:

Good to know. Not feeling great about a lot of BS guys, but I understand where the staff is coming from. Would probably be better if we got that number to 2-3, but we will just have to wait and see what the class looks like when we are done.

I really think you'll see this until we get our number of scholarship players up to close to 85 before we see this process stopped.