Basketball Long Term Problems?

Army of Dad · January 24, 2017

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

I suffered through the Dodge, McCarney, and Dickey years, so I can suffer through the Benford years. I'll suffer through other bad coaching eras.

Suffering = fun?

shootermcgavin44 · January 24, 2017

5 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

I suffered through the Dodge, McCarney, and Dickey years, so I can suffer through the Benford years. I'll suffer through other bad coaching eras.

Oh. My. Gosh.

Is this really the expectation we have set in place?

Edited January 24, 2017 by shootermcgavin44

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

3 minutes ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Oh. My. Gosh.

Is this really the expectation we have set in place?

7 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

Suffering = fun?

Not winning doesn't mean I like it or accept it. I'll be here long after Benford is gone though. I'm also not going to throw a fit and promise to never come back if Wren doesn't fire Benford moment I say he should.

I also understand what my role is in the grand scheme of things. I'm just a fan, like 99.999% of the people on this message board. I have an extremely limited ability to affect change. Coming onto this message board and opining about how much I want someone fired won't get it done. I guess I could stop giving donations (to the Athletic Department) and buying season tickets but I think I'd end up regretting that decision later.

I think I got this way because I lived on campus for four of the six years I went there. UNT, for a time, was my HOME. I will always have fond memories, both good and bad, of the campus and so I can't quickly divorce my emotions from the place like others can.

NT1978 · January 24, 2017

30 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

I suffered through the Dodge, McCarney, and Dickey years, so I can suffer through the Benford years. I'll suffer through other bad coaching eras.

The one true North Texas tradition.

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

What that leads to is no pressure to win.

Sigh...

15 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Not winning doesn't mean I like it or accept it. I'll be here long after Benford is gone though. I'm also not going to throw a fit and promise to never come back if Wren doesn't fire Benford moment I say he should.

I also understand what my role is in the grand scheme of things. I'm just a fan, like 99.999% of the people on this message board. I have an extremely limited ability to affect change. Coming onto this message board and opining about how much I want someone fired won't get it done. I guess I could stop giving donations (to the Athletic Department) and buying season tickets but I think I'd end up regretting that decision later.

I think I got this way because I lived on campus for four of the six years I went there. UNT, for a time, was my HOME. I will always have fond memories, both good and bad, of the campus and so I can't quickly divorce my emotions from the place like others can.

If you think being on this message board is all I do, you are VERY mistaken.

You can effect change. You choose not to. And I really shouldn't be upset with you, because you never gripe about anything you don't try to change.

i just can't do that. People matter. People change things. People change attitudes and ideas. People decide whether a job is done right or done improperly.

Always amazes me how some people never get this.

Army of Dad · January 24, 2017

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

Not winning doesn't mean I like it or accept it. I'll be here long after Benford is gone though. I'm also not going to throw a fit and promise to never come back if Wren doesn't fire Benford moment I say he should.

I also understand what my role is in the grand scheme of things. I'm just a fan, like 99.999% of the people on this message board. I have an extremely limited ability to affect change. Coming onto this message board and opining about how much I want someone fired won't get it done. I guess I could stop giving donations (to the Athletic Department) and buying season tickets but I think I'd end up regretting that decision later.

I think I got this way because I lived on campus for four of the six years I went there. UNT, for a time, was my HOME. I will always have fond memories, both good and bad, of the campus and so I can't quickly divorce my emotions from the place like others can.

I'm just not seeing where you equating suffering through the amazingly large amount of bad coaches is fun. I get not liking the tone 90 had, I'm just surprised that is what makes it not fun to be a fan.

I'm a bit disappointed that you think this is throwing a fit. Outside of a few in person conversations, I don't believe I've ever said that I was going to be done with UNT sports if "X" did or did not happen.

The firing of RV and hiring of WB kept my fandom on life support. I didn't arrive at this point on a whim. I've never posted "I'm done if" before, but I'm coming to the realization that UNT just doesn't care about their sports like I do. This unfathomable continued support of Benford is just the final straw.

You seem to have no bottom to your own personal well. I'd say that's probably a bad thing (certainly for UNT sports). You'll probably disagree, but I'm not saying you are acting like a sycophant, a zombie, or otherwise characterizing your behavior in a negative light.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

Just now, Army of Dad said:

I'm just not seeing where you equating suffering through the amazingly large amount of bad coaches is fun. I get not liking the tone 90 had, I'm just surprised that is what makes it not fun to be a fan.

Where did I say it was fun?!

Just now, Army of Dad said:

I'm a bit disappointed that you think this is throwing a fit. Outside of a few in person conversations, I don't believe I've ever said that I was going to be done with UNT sports if "X" did or did not happen.

Not you specifically but others have said they're gonna take their ball and go home if Benford isn't fired right this moment.

2 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

The firing of RV and hiring of WB kept my fandom on life support. I didn't arrive at this point on a whim. I've never posted "I'm done if" before, but I'm coming to the realization that UNT just doesn't care about their sports like I do. This unfathomable continued support of Benford is just the final straw.

You seem to have no bottom to your own personal well. I'd say that's probably a bad thing (certainly for UNT sports). You'll probably disagree, but I'm not saying you are acting like a sycophant, a zombie, or otherwise characterizing your behavior in a negative light.

I'm not quite sure how to take that but I also don't look for negativity in everything. I also try to approach things from a logical aspect, which is why firing Benford right now seems like a bad idea. I'm looking at it less as a fan and more from holistic standpoint.

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

Where did I say it was fun?!

Not you specifically but others have said they're gonna take their ball and go home if Benford isn't fired right this moment.

I'm not quite sure how to take that but I also don't look for negativity in everything. I also try to approach things from a logical aspect, which is why firing Benford right now seems like a bad idea. I'm looking at it less as a fan and more from holistic standpoint.

Tell me, what is to be positive about in men's basketball right now?

Army of Dad · January 24, 2017

17 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Where did I say it was fun?!

Not you specifically but others have said they're gonna take their ball and go home if Benford isn't fired right this moment.

I'm not quite sure how to take that but I also don't look for negativity in everything. I also try to approach things from a logical aspect, which is why firing Benford right now seems like a bad idea. I'm looking at it less as a fan and more from holistic standpoint.

I think we've gotten mixed up a bit. I don't see how 90 is what makes it no longer fun to be a fan. The losing and Shhh show we've had is what makes it no longer fun. I'm surprised that it's a post (ok, probably more than one) that makes it no fun.

Don't take that as a personal shot, it wasn't intended as such. I call things as I see them. If I'm seeing lots of negatives surrounding North Texas it's because there are lots of negatives. Continuance of the pattern of accepting failure is a major red flag, if UNT doesn't care to do more than dump on the few fans they have then I'm not staying and asking for another mouthful of ?.

Benford should have been canned years ago. Every day that goes by is one more day of accepting failure and telling the fanbase and general public we just don't care and neither should you.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Army of Dad

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

Just now, Army of Dad said:

I think we've gotten mixed up a bit. I don't see how 90 is what makes it no longer fun to be a fan. The losing and Shhh show we've had is what makes it no longer fun. I'm surprised that it's a post (ok, probably more than one) that makes it no fun.

It's fine to disagree but to "put down" someone because their views don't line up with yours is not. He has aggressively gotten after people who don't agree with him lock, stock, and barrel. He is for all intents and purposes, a bully. That's what makes it no fun anymore.

Andrew · January 24, 2017

8 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

It's fine to disagree but to "put down" someone because their views don't line up with yours is not. He has aggressively gotten after people who don't agree with him lock, stock, and barrel. He is for all intents and purposes, a bully. That's what makes it no fun anymore.

As my wife puts it... nasty men who are incapable of doing anything athletically so they resort to rude bully tactics to make up for it. That's just her two cents after reading the posts about Benford and others.

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

It's fine to disagree but to "put down" someone because their views don't line up with yours is not. He has aggressively gotten after people who don't agree with him lock, stock, and barrel. He is for all intents and purposes, a bully. That's what makes it no fun anymore.

Please.

Saying that all your opinions align with the AD isn't bullying, it's a cold, hard fact. Always have, always will.

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

As my wife puts it... nasty men who are incapable of doing anything athletically so they resort to rude bully tactics to make up for it. That's just her two cents after reading the posts about Benford and others.

Lol. Remember that GMG.com basketball game where we tanned your hide? Who was MVP again?

MeanGreen_MBA · January 24, 2017

2 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Not winning doesn't mean I like it or accept it. I'll be here long after Benford is gone though. I'm also not going to throw a fit and promise to never come back if Wren doesn't fire Benford moment I say he should.

I also understand what my role is in the grand scheme of things. I'm just a fan, like 99.999% of the people on this message board. I have an extremely limited ability to affect change. Coming onto this message board and opining about how much I want someone fired won't get it done. I guess I could stop giving donations (to the Athletic Department) and buying season tickets but I think I'd end up regretting that decision later.

I think I got this way because I lived on campus for four of the six years I went there. UNT, for a time, was my HOME. I will always have fond memories, both good and bad, of the campus and so I can't quickly divorce my emotions from the place like others can.

Voice of reason. Thanks for the support. I am with you 100%

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

As my wife puts it... nasty men who are incapable of doing anything athletically so they resort to rude bully tactics to make up for it. That's just her two cents after reading the posts about Benford and others.

This

UNT90 · January 25, 2017

Guess what, people. Losing isn't supposed to be fun. Sorry I ruined the fun losing party of the last 15 years

Army of Dad · January 25, 2017

3 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

It's fine to disagree but to "put down" someone because their views don't line up with yours is not. He has aggressively gotten after people who don't agree with him lock, stock, and barrel. He is for all intents and purposes, a bully. That's what makes it no fun anymore.

Has 90 been over the top? Certainly, but let's not act like he's the only one and back during the great class wars of 15-16 he was being attacked by multiple people for his views and being called into threads and then vilified for derailing threads he barely participated in.

I do not recall you condemning those posters then...

You're among a relatively small group of people that seem to support the AD without much, if any, exception. I think that particular group of fans has it wrong a good bit of the time, but I still respect y'alls tenacity.

greenminer · January 25, 2017

I understand what @Cerebus is saying here: Wren just doesn't have the emotional wear-and-tear bearing on him like we have.

I disagree with keeping Benford around through the end of the year; in my mind the call is obvious regardless of emotional attachment or lack thereof. But I will not label Wren as a bad AD for this one call. I would consider it a red flag, and that's about it.

Got5onIt · January 25, 2017

7 hours ago, NT1978 said:

The one true North Texas tradition.

Suffering should be described in the dictionary as "Supporters of UNT athletics."

GrandGreen · January 25, 2017

One simple question, for all those so outraged that Benford will not be terminated till after the season: would you start going to games to watch an interim coach's team? I just wonder why so many who never go to watch a Benford team care so much about the last ten games of the season which is likely to be horrible no matter who is coach.

I know some's answer, NT has to make a statement. That statement is obviously important to some who post here, but overall it is not going to make any difference to the masses. In fact, it is more likely to have the opposite effect, calling attention to the "Benford incident". What is going to matter, is who is chosen to be the next HC, whether Benford finishes his contract or not at this point is inconsequential.

UNT90 · January 25, 2017

9 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Suffering should be described in the dictionary as "Supporters of UNT athletics."

And I think certain fans wear that badge with pride and wouldn't have it any other way.

Pretty sad.

8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

One simple question, for all those so outraged that Benford will not be terminated till after the season: would you start going to games to watch an interim coach's team? I just wonder why so many who never go to watch a Benford team care so much about the last ten games of the season which is likely to be horrible no matter who is coach.

I know some's answer, NT has to make a statement. That statement is obviously important to some who post here, but overall it is not going to make any difference to the masses. In fact, it is more likely to have the opposite effect, calling attention to the "Benford incident". What is going to matter, is who is chosen to be the next HC, whether Benford finishes his contract or not at this point is inconsequential.

Several of us answered in another thread. Yes, we would come back this year.

The problem is what happens if this continues. I'm out. @Army of Dad has been there through this entire mess. He is out. Tasty, one of the most knowledgeable basketball posters and biggest fans, is out.

You know who else is out? All three rows surrounding my former seats behind the UNT bench. Who knows if they will come back.

You will have let the worst coach in UNT history complete a 5 year contract. UNT doesn't care enough about this to do something? I don't care enough to ever give them any money for anything basketball related other than a single game ticket. Once a year. And only because it's a tradition.

And it will affect my giving in other areas.

Edited January 25, 2017 by UNT90

oldguystudent · January 25, 2017

First of all, because it made my simple male mind quiver a bit, I consulted the Oxford dictionary -- it's effect change, not affect change. I only bring that up because I saw both on this thread and was torn as to which one it really is. Honestly, I can't f'ing stand internet grammar queens. Apologies for bringing it up.

Anywho, I have been greatly surprised in recent times that we small timers do effect more change than we realize. I always thought I had no voice, so why bother with trying to use it. I think I was wrong.

That said, I don't see productivity on bringing out pitchforks and tar. I do see productivity in bringing up tangible, measurable points of dissatisfaction. Oh. I'm sorry, in this era of snowflakes, I do see productivity in bringing up tangible, measurable points of needed improvement.

My investment here is primarily in football, and would also be in baseball if UNT were to ever field a team. I suppose this whole Benford thing for me is simply because with basketball, I can take it or leave it. And honestly, it's historically been so freaking difficult to purchase a ticket to get into a game, I don't much have any first hand witness experience in whether Benford can coach or not. The gatekeepers to the Super Pit made it too miserable to enter in the first place.

Quoner · January 25, 2017

15 hours ago, Andrew said:

As my wife puts it... nasty men who are incapable of doing anything athletically so they resort to rude bully tactics to make up for it. That's just her two cents after reading the posts about Benford and others.

Is she willing to take on an ombudsman type role moving forward? Would probably free up the mods a bit and give us an excuse to keep the family chant after March.

Army of Dad · January 25, 2017

8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

One simple question, for all those so outraged that Benford will not be terminated till after the season: would you start going to games to watch an interim coach's team?

I never stopped going to the home games.

If UNT does as some of you suggest and continues to accept abject failure then it doesn't care as much as I do.

I'll stop going to games then, and it's almost a certainty that I will not return.

MeanGreenHoops · January 25, 2017

I have stopped going to games. I do feel guilty about it. I don't know if that's the right feeling or not. I do basically feel as an alumnus I should support regardless. But going made me furious, and not going less so.

Making a move before the end of this season is symbolic at this point. Does it make a difference? Clearly to many on here it does. I think the continued losing is making it easier for Wren to make that move. This really is the previous AD and administrations mess. It's too bad Wren has to deal with it.

The silver lining is, at least RV isn't making the next hire.

MeanGreen_MBA · January 25, 2017

8 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

I never stopped going to the home games.

If UNT does as some of you suggest and continues to accept abject failure then it doesn't care as much as I do.

I'll stop going to games then, and it's almost a certainty that I will not return.

Not meaning to poke the bear here. But can you give an example of ANYBODY on this board making any kind of a statement where they "accept abject failure"? I am pretty certain that myself, and suspect everybody else on this board, and/or associated with the "U", want the B-ball team and all other programs to be successful. We may have different ways of stating this. Some get hot and angry, some more stoic, some in a positive proactive way....many different approaches.....but to say they anybody wants or accepts the program to fail....I don't buy it... I have not seen 1 posting to keep Benford probably this year. I will admit, I thought we would do better this year based on talent alone...I was wrong and admitted it....Coaching matters. We are not getting that.... But nobody wants failure.... amiright???

Army of Dad · January 25, 2017

43 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

I consulted the Oxford dictionary -- it's effect change, not affect change. I only bring that up because I saw both on this thread and was torn as to which one it really is. Honestly, I can't f'ing stand internet grammar queens. Apologies for bringing it up.

Thanks, and no apologies necessary, IMO.

2 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Not meaning to poke the bear here. But can you give an example of ANYBODY on this board making any kind of a statement where they "accept abject failure"? I am pretty certain that myself, and suspect everybody else on this board, and/or associated with the "U", want the B-ball team and all other programs to be successful. We may have different ways of stating this. Some get hot and angry, some more stoic, some in a positive proactive way....many different approaches.....but to say they anybody wants or accepts the program to fail....I don't buy it... I have not seen 1 posting to keep Benford probably this year. I will admit, I thought we would do better this year based on talent alone...I was wrong and admitted it....Coaching matters. We are not getting that.... But nobody wants failure.... amiright???

Prior to each season of Benford's reign of ?There has been the usual suspects parading that this year will be the year. It was the same with other facets of athletics here for all the years I've been a fan.

You did it again before this season despite a large amount of evidence indicating otherwise.

That's accepting failure. Advocating on behalf of Benford is promoting failure, not accepting it. I'm glad that you've finally recognized that Benford is a failure. I just can't fathom why it would take anyone 4.5 seasons to see it.

Leaving Benford in charge for the rest of his contract is continuing to accept failure.