Basketball Long Term Problems?

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

As Cerebus stated, I would never make the assumption that Harry is fine with that conference record or our overall record. As my Dad used to say, "There is more than one way to skin a cat." Just because someone doesn't share your methods or exhibiting your discontent does not mean that do not want the same end result, and doesn't give free reign to belittle them at every turn.

But agreeing to let him coach out the remainder of the year brings about the VERY real possibility that this happens. When will YOU change your mind? When UNT is 0-10? 0-12? 0-15?

And if you would change your mind then, why aren't you pushing now (other than you have never pushed for any change, ever)?

Cerebus · January 24, 2017

1 minute ago, Army of Dad said:

If WB didn't have any idea of what he had here before we hired him then we got the wrong guy.

That's not what I said. We have no idea why WB hasn't pulled the trigger yet. In my opinion it should have happened already.

However I have learned that there is often a lot of things going on behind closed doors. So can I give our brand new AD the benefit of the doubt, for now. Yes.

If in the future, we see he has trouble firing coaches he should have, then I can see getting upset. However as of right now I am not sure this is indicative of any future behavior. Hiring poor coaches, and then refusing to fire them when needed (and being unable to raise the funding to do so) was one of the major things I faulted the last AD for, so no, I do not have a blind spot for this behavior.

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

5 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

No I am not OK with going 0-18, and yes I would be extremely disappointed in WB if that was allowed to happen, but no I would not judge him to be a failure if it did.

I've stated that several times.

Do you get the long term damage that would do to this program?

I would love to recruit against UNT in that scenario.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

It's a possibility to go 0-18 in conference play, with or without Benford. I feel like it would be easier to lose all remaining games if Benford were to be fired now as no one in the program has anything to play towards. In my eyes it's a sure fire way to torpedo the season, all just to appease a small group of fans who want "instant gratification" in that they saw someone lose their job.

Edited January 24, 2017 by UNTFan23

Cerebus · January 24, 2017

Just now, UNT90 said:

Do you get the long term damage that would do to this program?

I would love to recruit against UNT in that scenario.

We have a solid chance of going 0-18 no matter who is coaching, a lot of coaches would love to recruit against us now. Hopefully WB can hire a coach that can turn that around, and hopefully he is hiring SOON.

shootermcgavin44 · January 24, 2017

I can't believe he is still employeed after what has transpired in conference play.

#newdenton is starting to feel like #olddenton

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

21 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

We have a solid chance of going 0-18 no matter who is coaching, a lot of coaches would love to recruit against us now. Hopefully WB can hire a coach that can turn that around, and hopefully he is hiring SOON.

But there is a HUGE difference in going 0-18 and not doing anything about it. It will be used against UNT in recruiting. I would sell that UNT doesn't care about winning and use Benford being allowed to coach out his contract as an example. I'd tell the kid I'd lose my job if I performed that terribly, but at UNT they just don't care. I'd explain that a lack of consequences leads to poor behavior and an environment of not caring, which leads to losing. I'd ask the kid's parents if they believed in consequences for their son (they will say yes) and then ask them why they would ever consider a school that didn't believe in consequences for the coaching staff? The staff that would be mentoring their son?

Leaving him in place is an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen.

22 minutes ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

I can't believe he is still employeed after what has transpired in conference play.

#newdenton is starting to feel like #olddenton

#OldDenton

Sadly, I think this is the more appropriate hash tag.

Edited January 24, 2017 by UNT90

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

5 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

It's a possibility to go 0-18 in conference play, with or without Benford. I feel like it would be easier to lose all remaining games if Benford were to be fired now as no one in the program has anything to play towards. In my eyes it's a sure fire way to torpedo the season, all just to appease a small group of fans who want "instant gratification" in that they saw someone lose their job.

We just have to disagree on this.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

12 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

You don't understand sports. At all.

Ignoring your passive aggressiveness ... Enlighten me. In the end, I've always thought success was ultimately measured by wins and losses. You mean there is some other way we measure coaches and players by?

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

4 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Ignoring your passive aggressiveness ... Enlighten me. In the end, I've always thought success was ultimately measured by wins and losses. You mean there is some other way we measure coaches and players by?

There was nothing passive about it. Athletes don't like to lose, and they don't like playing for a coach that loses. You seem to think this team would fall apart without Benford the Great leading the charge. I got news for you, they would play better. They would win more. Anyone who has played sports should be able to get this.

There is no great allegiance to Tony Benford, and having him gone will take immense pressure off of these kid's shoulders.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

Just now, UNT90 said:

There was nothing passive about it. Athletes don't like to lose, and they don't like playing for a coach that loses. You seem to think this team would fall apart with Benford the Great leading the charge. I got news for you, they would play better. They would win more. Anyone who has played sports should be able to get this.

There is no great allegiance to Tony Benford, and having him gone will take immense pressure off of these kid's shoulders.

God, how I would love for just one time to see you not shill the official AD position. On anything. Ever.

You have no evidence to say the team will perform better just like I have no evidence to say the team will continue as-is with him still on the sideline.

The team has bad fundamentals and no real offensive scheme. That will continue even with an interim coach. Why? There are limits to the number minutes players are limited to in official team practices. Going back to basics and bringing in a true offensive scheme, while an option, likely won't produce any meaningful results. There just isn't enough time for practice and left in the season.

I love how you have railed against the administration on bending to the will of big-time donors yet they're suppose to bend to your will.

Army of Dad · January 24, 2017

@UNTFan23

I tend to think the team will play better without Benford just from the change in atmosphere/pressure.

As for bending to will, I'd say its more of a indication of a problem that the AD (department or person) feels that keeping Benford around is the correct course of action.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

1 minute ago, Army of Dad said:

@UNTFan23

I tend to think the team will play better without Benford just from the change in atmosphere/pressure.

As for bending to will, I'd say its more of a indication of a problem that the AD (department or person) feels that keeping Benford around is the correct course of action.

Wren and company are way closer to the situation than anyone on this message board is, so I feel like it's safe to say they have a good understanding of how things could play out if they were to let Benford go mid-season.

shootermcgavin44 · January 24, 2017

16 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

You have no evidence to say the team will perform better just like I have no evidence to say the team will continue as-is with him still on the sideline.

The team has bad fundamentals and no real offensive scheme. That will continue even with an interim coach. Why? There are limits to the number minutes players are limited to in official team practices. Going back to basics and bringing in a true offensive scheme, while an option, likely won't produce any meaningful results. There just isn't enough time for practice and left in the season.

I love how you have railed against the administration on bending to the will of big-time donors yet they're suppose to bend to your will.

So keep the same coach in place that enstilled these bad fundamentals and poor offense schemes? Makes sense

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

Just now, shootermcgavin44 said:

So keep the same coach in place that enstilled these bad fundamentals and poor offense schemes? Makes sense

And assuming an interim coach is going to make any changes does as well? You either continue as-is and allow time for game planning against your opponents or take the team back to summer workouts and start learning all new skills. Meanwhile, you still have a season to play out and the team is making mistakes as a result of learning the new system and never spent any time preparing to play their next opponent.

shootermcgavin44 · January 24, 2017

45 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

And assuming an interim coach is going to make any changes does as well? You either continue as-is and allow time for game planning against your opponents or take the team back to summer workouts and start learning all new skills. Meanwhile, you still have a season to play out and the team is making mistakes as a result of learning the new system and never spent any time preparing to play their next opponent.

Keep doing the same things over and over and expect different results. Got it.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

3 minutes ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Keep doing the same things over and over and expect different results. Got it.

How is naming an interim from the existing coaching staff and expecting different results not the same thing?

Edited January 24, 2017 by UNTFan23

Cerebus · January 24, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

The team has bad fundamentals and no real offensive scheme. That will continue even with an interim coach. Why? There are limits to the number minutes players are limited to in official team practices. Going back to basics and bringing in a true offensive scheme, while an option, likely won't produce any meaningful results. There just isn't enough time for practice and left in the season.

I don't think how many we win or lose really matters anymore. We aren't going to turn around and win the conference tournament.

I think TB needs to be gone ASAP. Keeping him around isn't going to help, and it is going to hurt.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

35 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

I don't think how many we win or lose really matters anymore. We aren't going to turn around and win the conference tournament.

I think TB needs to be gone ASAP. Keeping him around isn't going to help, and it is going to hurt.

I think the damage is done. Cutting him loose will look like it has stopped the bleeding on the outside (to the fans) but I think the program will continue to hemorrhage after he's dismissed and there won't be anyone there to fix any internal problems. It's the internal problems that Wren and the AD have visibility to and why I don't think they'll pull the trigger until the season is over.

Cerebus · January 24, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

I think the damage is done.

No, not all the damage is done. The signaling to the fans is taking a beating every day this is allowed to continue.

UNT90 · January 24, 2017

4 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

You have no evidence to say the team will perform better just like I have no evidence to say the team will continue as-is with him still on the sideline.

The team has bad fundamentals and no real offensive scheme. That will continue even with an interim coach. Why? There are limits to the number minutes players are limited to in official team practices. Going back to basics and bringing in a true offensive scheme, while an option, likely won't produce any meaningful results. There just isn't enough time for practice and left in the season.

I love how you have railed against the administration on bending to the will of big-time donors yet they're suppose to bend to your will.

They are supposed to FIX AN F'N 4 YEAR OLD PROBLEM. RV was allowed to lose for 15 years.

And there is evidence. Chico had a better record than both Dodge and DMac when he replaced them. There was the example at WKU given by FFR.

It's funny how your and several others opinions never vary from UNT leadership. I mean never.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

They are supposed to FIX AN F'N 4 YEAR OLD PROBLEM. Keep being a yes man and hope Wren pats you on the head at a function. A lot of your type around UNT athletics, which is why RV was allowed to lose for 15 years.

And there is evidence. Chico had a better record than both Dodge and DMac when he replaced them. There was the example at WKU given by FFR.

Keep shilling away. It's funny how your and several others opinions never vary from UNT leadership. I mean never.

And this is why being a Mean Green fan is no longer fun anymore.

Edited January 24, 2017 by UNTFan23

Army of Dad · January 24, 2017

7 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

And this is why being a Mean Green fan is no longer fun anymore.

That's the reason?!

It's not all the losing and repeated refusal to address issues? It's not the repeated poor product put out by the AD (MBB game sheet with last year's roster, continued ticketing problems for just a couple quick examples).

About the only thing that's well above average for the conference is our broadcast team(s).

12 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

No, not all the damage is done. The signaling to the fans is taking a beating every day this is allowed to continue.

Agree.

TheTastyGreek · January 24, 2017

15 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Keep shilling away. It's funny how your and several others opinions never vary from UNT leadership. I mean never.

You need to stop this sort of stuff. Immediately. Non negotiable.

UNTFan23 · January 24, 2017

3 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

That's the reason?!

It's not all the losing and repeated refusal to address issues? It's not the repeated poor product put out by the AD (MBB game sheet with last year's roster, continued ticketing problems for just a couple quick examples).

About the only thing that's well above average for the conference is our broadcast team(s).

Agree.

I suffered through the Dodge, McCarney, and Dickey years, so I can suffer through the Benford years. I'll suffer through other bad coaching eras.