MGB: Firing Benford midseason would be a bad move for UNT

[UNT Mean Green]

25 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

The AD is selling a product.  Part of selling  is your customer base having confidence in the brand value of your product.  Keeping Mac around would have had no chance to help the brand, but it did have a good chance of helping it.  

Every day that you send the message that this kind of product is acceptable, you are lowering the value of the product the next coach is going to try and sell.  Stop digging a deeper hole for that coach.

Thoroughly agree with this principle. Would keeping McCarney versus firing McCarney until November 30 have changed the value of the Littrell hire and the 2016 season?

1 minute ago, Army of Dad said:

How about the few who actually do go?

 

Aren't those folks (and thank goodness that we do have them) going to attend no matter what?

[Shark84]

Out of curiosity, how many posters on this board that currently don't attend the games would show up and support an interim coach?  

[TheTastyGreek]

6 minutes ago, Shark84 said:

Out of curiosity, how many posters on this board that currently don't attend the games would show up and support an interim coach?  

This one. Depending on when we name him.

[Greendylan]

3 minutes ago, UNT Mean Green said:

Thoroughly agree with this principle. Would keeping McCarney versus firing McCarney until November 30 have changed the value of the Littrell hire and the 2016 season?

Aren't those folks (and thank goodness that we do have them) going to attend no matter what?

If McCarney had been allowed to finish out the year after the Portland State embarrassment, we would have been viewed, by the end of the season, as one of the worst teams of all time and would have owned so many dubious records that it would have poisoned our program for years to come.  No respectable up and coming coach, like Littrell, would have touched us.

[Army of Dad]

13 minutes ago, UNT Mean Green said:

Aren't those folks (and thank goodness that we do have them) going to attend no matter what?

No. Also, are you really advocating that it's wise to just continually foist a crappy product onto to a consumer just because you think they might never leave?

[Greendylan]

7 minutes ago, Shark84 said:

Out of curiosity, how many posters on this board that currently don't attend the games would show up and support an interim coach?  

I had been going to games up until a couple weeks ago, but it's gotten to a point where it is just too painful to watch our talented players floundering out there with really no leadership.  I would LOVE for any little excuse, such as an interim coach, to feel like we could actually show up with a game plan that could be successful.  

Right now, I really think it is hurting all parties involved (Benford included) for this disaster to slowly drag out when his players know he is a dead man walking.

[oldguystudent]

I honestly don't know the answer to this question because I don't much understand the workings of college basketball:

This season is, for me, a complete and total write-off.  Which move then is best for the long-term future of the program beginning next season?  Is it immediate termination with pitchforks, tar and feathers?  Or is it to ride out this already lost season?

Again, I honestly don't know the answer.  I don't know how recruiting works, blah blah blah etc etc. 

[shootermcgavin44]

29 minutes ago, Shark84 said:

Out of curiosity, how many posters on this board that currently don't attend the games would show up and support an interim coach?  

I used to attend 10+ home games a year for many many years, but I have not stepped for in the super pit for over 3 years. 

I would for sure start coming to games to support if an interim took Benfords place. 

[EagleMBA]

38 minutes ago, Shark84 said:

Out of curiosity, how many posters on this board that currently don't attend the games would show up and support an interim coach?  

Not me, unless the interim was the ghost of Jerry Tarkanian. I'm looking ahead to October...this season is over.

[UNT90]

2 hours ago, UNT Mean Green said:

So your simple answer is in order to pacify fans like you who don't attend games anyway, and if Benford is not fired before the end of the year, you claim the new athletic director will never make winning in basketball a priority?

I WAS a season ticket holder. Cancelled after year one of Benford. If they want my business back, they need not to let this thing play out.

Actually the last 3 years have been confirmation that the university doesn't care about the program. Not doing anything and letting Benford serve out the entire contract will just be verification that this attitude remains.

And it doesn't matter who is AD, without a commitment from the president and the BOR, it's just the same ole UNT.

Are you ok if UNT goes 0-fer for conference play? Because that is a VERY real possibility. 

2 hours ago, Shark84 said:

Out of curiosity, how many posters on this board that currently don't attend the games would show up and support an interim coach?  

I'd make at least one more game this year.

Edited January 23, 2017 by UNT90

[MeanGreenTexan]

5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

...

I'd make at least one more game this year.

Count me in here as well.

[Green P1]

I've been getting more and more excited to see my first game at te Pit since at least before they installed the new jumbo screen.  

If they don't give enough of a crap to make that happen this year... I don't know why I'd believe in them down the road. 

[UNT Mean Green]

55 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

I WAS a season ticket holder. Cancelled after year one of Benford. If they want my business back, they need not to let this thing play out.

Actually the last 3 years have been confirmation that the university doesn't care about the program. Not doing anything and letting Benford serve out the entire contract will just be verification that this attitude remains.

And it doesn't matter who is AD, without a commitment from the president and the BOR, it's just the same ole UNT.

Are you ok if UNT goes 0-fer for conference play? Because that is a VERY real possibility. 

I'd make at least one more game this year.

So the timing of the firing, even if we assume the new coach turns the program for the positive in one year, impacts your decision of whether or not to purchase tickets?

How would you define a lack of commitment from the president and BOR?

Of course, no one is happy with the results of this season or the past couple of seasons - and a change in MBB leadership is inevitable.

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, UNT Mean Green said:

So the timing of the firing, even if we assume the new coach turns the program for the positive in one year, impacts your decision of whether or not to purchase tickets?

How would you define a lack of commitment from the president and BOR?

Of course, no one is happy with the results of this season or the past couple of seasons - and a change in MBB leadership is inevitable.

I define a lack of commitment from the President and BOR as refusing to fix a glaring problem hire four years ago, then 3 years ago, then 2 years ago, then last year, and finally this year if they refuse to do so. 

And yes, refusing to fix it this year will kill any future chance at my purchasing basketball season tickets. Forever. No matter what happens next year or 5 years from now. Why? See paragraph one. 

Now, my question still remains to you: are you ok losing every conference game this year with Benford being allowed to coach out the season?

[Harry]

I agree with Vito on this, there are basically 11 more games.  It does not appear that we will make the tourney.  Even Benford's biggest critics would grant you the injuries on  this team are decimating.  Let him finish out the season and make your move then.  For his inability to build a winning program, he has acted with class and taken full responsibility for the losing.  No need to make a spectacle of this as there are some good young players who we hope will choose to stay around for the  next coach.  It is not fun to go through this but there is no advantage to let him go sooner.  Plus, Wren has basically stated that he would make his evaluation after the season was over anyway.

[UNT Mean Green]

4 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

I define a lack of commitment from the President and BOR as refusing to fix a glaring problem hire four years ago, then 3 years ago, then 2 years ago, then last year, and finally this year if they refuse to do so. 

And yes, refusing to fix it this year will kill any future chance at my purchasing basketball season tickets. Forever. No matter what happens next year or 5 years from now. Why? See paragraph one. 

Now, my question still remains to you: are you ok losing every conference game this year with Benford being allowed to coach out the season?

Interesting definition of "commitment", but thank you for clarifying. The president (who came to UNT in January of 2014) and BOR aren't likely to go over the department chair's (Athletic Director) head to "fix" the problem, especially when the department chair is expected to handle his or her area of expertise. Now, not to bash Rick, but we all know that the Benford hire was a "miss". I would think "commitment" from that level of administration would be to back Wren Baker with the budgetary resources necessary to handle a firing and / or hiring, which in this case, appears like we will be able to see when that time comes.

As a fan, I (or anyone else for that matter) obviously am disappointed with the results in basketball this season or the past couple of seasons. But, in the grand scheme of things, I don't see what changes in terms of prospective records if Benford is fired now or at the conclusion of the season.

[UNT90]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree with Vito on this, there are basically 11 more games.  It does not appear that we will make the tourney.  Even Benford's biggest critics would grant you the injuries on  this team are decimating.  Let him finish out the season and make your move then.  For his inability to build a winning program, he has acted with class and taken full responsibility for the losing.  No need to make a spectacle of this as there are some good young players who we hope will choose to stay around for the  next coach.  It is not fun to go through this but there is no advantage to let him go sooner.  Plus, Wren has basically stated that he would make his evaluation after the season was over anyway.

For the record,are you ok with Benford coaching UNT to an 0-18 conference record? 

2 minutes ago, UNT Mean Green said:

Interesting definition of "commitment", but thank you for clarifying. The president (who came to UNT in January of 2014) and BOR aren't likely to go over the department chair's (Athletic Director) head to "fix" the problem, especially when the department chair is expected to handle his or her area of expertise. Now, not to bash Rick, but we all know that the Benford hire was a "miss". I would think "commitment" from that level of administration would be to back Wren Baker with the budgetary resources necessary to handle a firing and / or hiring, which in this case, appears like we will be able to see when that time comes.

As a fan, I (or anyone else for that matter) obviously am disappointed with the results in basketball this season or the past couple of seasons. But, in the grand scheme of things, I don't see what changes in terms of prospective records if Benford is fired now or at the conclusion of the season.

Please answer:

Are you ok with Benford coaching out the season and UNT going 0-18 in conference play?

i answered yours, please answer mine. 

[untbowler]

5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

For the record,are you ok with Benford coaching UNT to an 0-18 conference record? 

How has Benford taken responsbility? He blamed many players for failure, if not directly then via RV. Sorry but it is 2 yrs past time for Benford to have been shown the door.

[TheTastyGreek]

Firing Benford mid-season is a bad move. 

The only possible worse move is keeping him through the end of the season. 

Sucks that those are our options, but here we are. 

So, fire him already. 

[UNT90]

Just now, TheTastyGreek said:

Firing Benford mid-season is a bad move. 

The only possible worse move is keeping him through the end of the season. 

Sucks that those are our options, but here we are. 

So, fire him already. 

Yep. Could have been avoided by firing him after any of the previous 4 years, but the UNT administration chose not to make that hard decision.

This one is tougher? Well, tough S___. You put yourself and your new AD in this position.

[Army of Dad]

23 minutes ago, Harry said:

For his inability to build a winning program, he has acted with class and taken full responsibility for the losing.

No he hasn't! It's always an excuse out of him and he used to not even have the guts to face our own broadcast team after some losses.

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

No need to make a spectacle of this as there are some good young players who we hope will choose to stay around for the  next coach.

Firing a coach who lost 20 games twice in four years and is on his way to doing it a third time isn't making it a spectacle or even that surprising. Waiting and telling the fan base that complete failure will be tolerated and even rewarded is the message that WB should be worried about sending.

[UNT90]

You notice how those that are fine with Benford being allowed to coachout the year won't answer the question of whether they would be fine with UNT going 0-18 in conference? 

Do you wonder why that is? 

I don't. I know.

It's because they are willing to cross their fingers and play the odds that Benford will win at least one home game before the season is out. Typical losing fan mentality that has caused this program to be the butt of jokes for years.

Its because they know if they answer no, the follow up question is "then how long Are you willing to let this losing streak go before demanding action?" And they don't have an answer, nor do they want to answer, that question.

So by not answering, they basically are saying they are fine with UNT going 0-18. Well, I'm not. Not even for the possibility for that to happen. And it's a VERY real possibility.

[EagleMBA]

The reasons I am remaining as calm as possible while waiting for the inevitable:

1) Does anyone know if there is an ironclad agreement in place which says between the lines that, barring an incident of moral turpitude, TB is allowed to coach his final season to conclusion? Tied to RV's "retirement" agreement?

2) This season is done in 7 weeks; I'm choosing to take a longer, future view of the program.

3) Given the demonstrated performance and record to date, any additional wins will be meaningless. I would like to see the players win a few more for THEM, but it won't mean much in the overall scheme of things.

4) Given the importance of the replacement hire, I want TheWren to take as much time as he needs to "get it right". In the short time he has been here, there has been a lot of high-priority things on his plate. This is another and he will get to it in the proper sequence. I have faith in his abilities and can be patient.

For my friend UNT90, I am not fine with 0 - 18 but what will be, will be. I do pray that will not happen and the guys finish on a better note...I'm just not betting the beer money on it.

Just my opinion. Further Affiant Sayeth Not!

[MeanGreenHoops]

I think Vito makes a good point about it wouldn't make much sense to do it during the season, because really at this point it's way past too late. Even though serious programs would have made a move in year 1 or 2, even programs that just marginally cared would have done it last year. So doing it during the last part of the 5th year is nearly pointless.

It's not going to give me much faith in the AD or President or whomever to do it now, because it went on way too long anyway. It would be a nice gesture or schadenfreude for the fans if it happened during the season, but I agree with @TheTastyGreek just wait until after signing day and do it.

[UNT90]

30 minutes ago, EagleMBA said:

The reasons I am remaining as calm as possible while waiting for the inevitable:

1) Does anyone know if there is an ironclad agreement in place which says between the lines that, barring an incident of moral turpitude, TB is allowed to coach his final season to conclusion? Tied to RV's "retirement" agreement?

2) This season is done in 7 weeks; I'm choosing to take a longer, future view of the program.

3) Given the demonstrated performance and record to date, any additional wins will be meaningless. I would like to see the players win a few more for THEM, but it won't mean much in the overall scheme of things.

4) Given the importance of the replacement hire, I want TheWren to take as much time as he needs to "get it right". In the short time he has been here, there has been a lot of high-priority things on his plate. This is another and he will get to it in the proper sequence. I have faith in his abilities and can be patient.

For my friend UNT90, I am not fine with 0 - 18 but what will be, will be. I do pray that will not happen and the guys finish on a better note...I'm just not betting the beer money on it.

Just my opinion. Further Affiant Sayeth Not!

So you are fine with it, then.