Recruiting Folderol & Whatnot

GTWT · January 18, 2017

8 hours ago, GMG24 said:

This site... first year HC, first year OC, first year DC's we win 5 games and are competitive in all but two. We can find anything to itch and gritch about. Good lord. Does he need to recruit BETTER HS athletes probably, but so far the ones he and his staff identified from the previous class who has 0-2 offers have ALL been successful. Do we need to make a living off it? Hell no but this dude and his staff are the best UNT has had in a long time. Chill out and enjoy. I guarantee you the 3rd and short issue will be fixed in the off season. Maybe we threw it because they knew our OL couldn't win their battle vs the DL? All I am saying is we all need to calm down take two steps back and relax. Littrell and company had a small class last class, will have a small class with this one, have identified plenty of talent they offered to and at the time kid had 0 offers then we offer and boom he adds 5-6 offers from big time schools.

I wish I could give this post a +2.

UNT90 · January 18, 2017

9 hours ago, GMG24 said:

This site... first year HC, first year OC, first year DC's we win 5 games and are competitive in all but two. We can find anything to itch and gritch about. Good lord. Does he need to recruit BETTER HS athletes probably, but so far the ones he and his staff identified from the previous class who has 0-2 offers have ALL been successful. Do we need to make a living off it? Hell no but this dude and his staff are the best UNT has had in a long time. Chill out and enjoy. I guarantee you the 3rd and short issue will be fixed in the off season. Maybe we threw it because they knew our OL couldn't win their battle vs the DL? All I am saying is we all need to calm down take two steps back and relax. Littrell and company had a small class last class, will have a small class with this one, have identified plenty of talent they offered to and at the time kid had 0 offers then we offer and boom he adds 5-6 offers from big time schools.

Actually, thank god for this site and those who raise concerns early. Left to the normal green Kool aid gang (not talking about you), nothing would ever be questioned and UNT's indefinite suck would continue unabated.

Consequences are an effective motivator. There were no consequences for the Hattiesburg Hustler for the better part of a decade and he had zero motivation. We all saw how that worked out.

I encourage those that are unhappy with recruiting, men's basketball, or anything else to contact Wren Baker. By email, by phone, by social media, by whatever means possible. Let him know what you expect. Yes, it absolutely makes a difference. This fan base has done very little but sit on its ass and bitch about losing. It's way past time to let people in power know that we expect better. A lot better.

Edited January 18, 2017 by UNT90

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · January 18, 2017

We are going to be fine, no matter who we sign or do not sign.

Tell Brett Vito that I'm on record with a 6-6 prediction for the 2017 Mean Green.

Victories over:
-The FCS school
-One of either SMU or Army, perhaps both
-Two or three wins versus C-USA West foes
-Two or three wins versus C-USA East foes

C-USA football motto: "The hill ahead isn't too high; and, the hole you're in isn't too deep." Or, to put it into more human terms: "After midnight on dollar pitcher night, what standard are you really trying to uphold as closing time draws near?"

Bowl in Dallas or Fort Worth...or Florida or Arizona.

Wife's 50th birthday is this year, so maybe that Bahamas Bowl would be good as well, probably the best. Woo-hoo! Sandy beaches and randy bitches!

TheReal_jayD · January 18, 2017

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

I encourage those that are unhappy with recruiting, men's basketball, or anything else to contact Wren Baker. By email, by phone, by social media, by whatever means possible. Let him know what you expect. Yes, it absolutely makes a difference. This fan base has done very little but sit on its ass and bitch about losing. It's way past time to let people in power know that we expect better. A lot better.

1. Recruiting. Wren was up close and saw first hand how Justin Fuente and Memphis built up that program and put it on the map. Not by going out and beating P5 schools on every recruit. It was by finding the Paxton Lynchs of the world.

2 Basketball. There will be a new Mens basketball in 2017 we all know that. I would bet money Wren already has a list made out of his top canidates. Nothing will be achieved by him firing Benford midway thru the season.

3. Wren sees the problems and things that need to be changed. But like all good things it takes time. You can't correct 15 years of bad decisions in 5 months.

Travis · January 18, 2017

15 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Again all based on one outstanding class, that he never came remotely close to duplicating.

Then he became much more interesting in the next job, than doing his current one.

I was an undergrad during the bowl run years and talked to several football players. Hell, I was a roommate to one of them.... They all had complaints about DD. One that stuck out to me was how little he actually invested into recruiting. Even throwing out numbers of minutes he actually spent on the phone with players compared to other schools. He was furious because he always felt that the school could really do much better if the coaching staff showed more effort.

His words, not mine. And no, not gonna say who.

That one class was very impressive and I am still not quite sure how he landed them. But, he never duplicated that and seemed to rest on hope that the bowl wins would produce better recruits itself.

greenminer · January 18, 2017

50 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Nothing will be achieved by him firing Benford midway thru the season.

Not sure why this idea keeps hanging around. What do we have to lose by firing Benford?

We could possibly win a few more games with someone else. Is this about potential applicants not wanting to work for an AD that is not patient? Surely any person with a reasonable head on their shoulders would look at Benford's record/tenure and understand the need for change. We are that bad. Have been for at least 2 years.

Edited January 18, 2017 by greenminer

Army of Dad · January 18, 2017

16 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Not sure why this idea keeps hanging around. What do we have to lose by firing Benford?

We could possibly win a few more games with someone else. Is this about potential applicants not wanting to work for an AD that is not patient? Surely any person with a reasonable head on their shoulders would look at Benford's record/tenure and understand the need for change. We are that bad. Have been for at least 2 years.

If we end up with any potential applicants that are worried they might get fired halfway through their fifth season after losing 20 games twice in their first four seasons then we don't want those guys.

UNT90 · January 18, 2017

3 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

1. Recruiting. Wren was up close and saw first hand how Justin Fuente and Memphis built up that program and put it on the map. Not by going out and beating P5 schools on every recruit. It was by finding the Paxton Lynchs of the world.

2 Basketball. There will be a new Mens basketball in 2017 we all know that. I would bet money Wren already has a list made out of his top canidates. Nothing will be achieved by him firing Benford midway thru the season.

3. Wren sees the problems and things that need to be changed. But like all good things it takes time. You can't correct 15 years of bad decisions in 5 months.

We agree on #3. I vehemently disagree on the bolded in #2.

As to #1: Finding the "overlooked kid" is the old, tired excuse used for the DMac era. This philosophy will guarantee failure for the Littrell staff. Consistently losing recruiting battles with conference mates creates a losing program, not a winner.

TheReal_jayD · January 18, 2017

52 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

We agree on #3. I vehemently disagree on the bolded in #2.

As to #1: Finding the "overlooked kid" is the old, tired excuse used for the DMac era. This philosophy will guarantee failure for the Littrell staff. Consistently losing recruiting battles with conference mates creates a losing program, not a winner.

I will argue with you on the recruiting topic till we are blue in the face. Seth and Dmac recruiting is completely different. Dmac i can name at least 15 kids that werent even good high schools players. and 12 to 14 of those kids arent even on the roster any more. In Seths 13 months on the job and with two minimal scholly classes, Seth has already landed 2 better high school qbs than dmac ever did. Bryce English and Ladarius Hamilton could be argued the best Defensive linemans landed since dickey. And i would put Tyler Wilson Rico Bussey and Jaylen Guyton up against any 3 wrs Dmac landed. Has Seth lit the recruiting rankings world on fire? No. But I ask you to be paitent. Because the guys they are still in on could have immediate impact and will def make a splash. Seth has done more home visits in the last week.Than Mac did in the last 2 years he was here. Just be patient and let it play out

Edited January 18, 2017 by TheReal_jayD

Aldo · January 18, 2017

3 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Seth has done more home visits in the last week.Than Mac did in the last 2 years he was here.

TheReal_jayD · January 18, 2017

3 minutes ago, Aldo said:

si!

GreenMachine · January 18, 2017

9 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Actually, thank god for this site and those who raise concerns early. Left to the normal green Kool aid gang (not talking about you), nothing would ever be questioned and UNT's indefinite suck would continue unabated.

Consequences are an effective motivator. There were no consequences for the Hattiesburg Hustler for the better part of a decade and he had zero motivation. We all saw how that worked out.

I encourage those that are unhappy with recruiting, men's basketball, or anything else to contact Wren Baker. By email, by phone, by social media, by whatever means possible. Let him know what you expect. Yes, it absolutely makes a difference. This fan base has done very little but sit on its ass and bitch about losing. It's way past time to let people in power know that we expect better. A lot better.

But WB won't talk to them unless they are large enough donors, right?

UNT90 · January 18, 2017

16 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I will argue with you on the recruiting topic till we are blue in the face. Seth and Dmac recruiting is completely different. Dmac i can name at least 15 kids that werent even good high schools players. and 12 to 14 of those kids arent even on the roster any more. In Seths 13 months on the job and with two minimal scholly classes, Seth has already landed 2 better high school qbs than dmac ever did. Bryce English and Ladarius Hamilton could be argued the best Defensive linemans landed since dickey. And i would put Tyler Wilson Rico Bussey and Jaylen Guyton up against any 3 wrs Dmac landed. Has Seth lit the recruiting rankings world on fire? No. But I ask you to be paitent. Because the guys they are still in on could have immediate impact and will def make a splash. Seth has done more home visits in the last week.Than Mac did in the last 2 years he was here. Just be patient and let it play out

Lots of assumptions about players yet to take the field. And again, DMac isn't the standard, OUR CONFERENCE MATES ARE THE STANDARD.

I appluad the effort of the staff, still waiting to see the results.

Edited January 18, 2017 by UNT90

TheReal_jayD · January 18, 2017

4 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Lots of assumptions about players yet to take the field. And again, DMac isn't the standard, OUR CONFERENCE MATES ARE THE STANDARD.

when it comes to recruiting and recruiting rankings isn't it all assumptions until they get the chance to preform on the field?

Edited January 18, 2017 by TheReal_jayD

UNT90 · January 18, 2017

17 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

when it comes to to recruiting and recruiting rankings isn't it all assumptions until they get the chance to preform on the field?

Tired retreaded ground here. Higher rated classes win more. Classes with hire rated recruits are hire rated than classes with lower rated recruits.

Win recruiting battles. That's what you are paid to do. No stars that hit are nice, but NO ONE builds a coaching career on them.

TheReal_jayD · January 18, 2017

24 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Tired retreaded ground here. Higher rated classes win more. Classes with hire rated recruits are hire rated than classes with lower rated recruits.

Win recruiting battles. That's what you are paid to do. No stars that hit are nice, but NO ONE builds a coaching career on them.

See Mike Leach.

greenminer · January 19, 2017

2 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

See Mike Leach.

If you're saying it CAN be done with lower-than-average classes, then I agree.

If you're saying recruiting rankings are completely irrelevant, then I disagree.

We're trying to play with the law of averages here. The perennial conference title contenders are who they are because they consistently have the top rated classes among their peers.

There is nothing wrong with wanting higher rated recruits. It helps our chances. It's too early to judge SL, but let's not be scratching our heads a couple years from now if we're still clawing our way to 6 wins.

redallover · January 19, 2017

Need to redshirt high school guys and have them start as JR/SR and fill in hole with JUCOs. Sell talented 2* and 3* players on immediate playing time.

Army of Dad · January 19, 2017

14 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

See Mike Leach.

It's not like he's setting he world on fire. I tend to think his mouth is more responsible for his fame than his results.

I used Wiki for the W/L records(so data errors are a possibility)

At Tech his non con winning percentage was .787 while he was just .588 in conference.

At Wazzou it's a .500 to .444 split.

He didn't do well overall compared to his conference peers at either P5 head coaching stop, and did better against the teams not on his own level. (Feasting on OOC wins while at Tech)

Cerebus · January 19, 2017

5 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

At Tech his non con winning percentage was .787 while he was just .588 in conference.

Now compare those numbers to the historical records of other college coaches at that school and you'll see why plenty of Tech fans miss him today.

Kingsbury .480 .351
Tubberville .541 .356
Leach .787 .588
Dykes .550 .587
Moore .309 .237
Dockery .485 .434

So in the TV era of college football, no one else has managed to win more that 55% of their games (Leach won 79%), and only Dykes managed to win as much in conference. Dykes was doomed because he kept losing to smaller schools OOC, like North Texas.

I haven't looked at the numbers at Wazzou but I am sure you will find a similar trend. Leach has coached at the bottom feeders of the their conferences and done much better at them that they historically perform.

Since Odus Mitchell our 1A/FBS/etc record is .434, if we could find someone who could come in and win 25 percentage points higher (.684 or 8.2 wins a year in a 12 game schedule) I would want them to coach here for as long as they live.

TheReal_jayD · January 19, 2017

39 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

It's not like he's setting he world on fire. I tend to think his mouth is more responsible for his fame than his results.

I used Wiki for the W/L records(so data errors are a possibility)

At Tech his non con winning percentage was .787 while he was just .588 in conference.

At Wazzou it's a .500 to .444 split.

He didn't do well overall compared to his conference peers at either P5 head coaching stop, and did better against the teams not on his own level. (Feasting on OOC wins while at Tech)

10 straight winning records* 10 Straight bowls* never ranked higher than 5th in recruiting rankings. only ranked 5th twice. ranked last more times than above 7th in conference.

Edited January 19, 2017 by TheReal_jayD

oldguystudent · January 19, 2017

When I come on this board, I wonder if I should just hang myself, shoot myself with a pistol in my mouth, shoot myself with a pistol to the side of the head, shotgun with a string tied to my toe, gas oven, car turned on in the garage, or go all Marilyn and leave a beautiful corpse with some delicious barbiturates.

Army of Dad · January 19, 2017

18 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

10 straight winning records* 10 Straight bowls* never ranked higher than 5th in recruiting rankings. only ranked 5th twice. ranked last more times than above 7th in conference.

And mediocre recruiting compared to his conference mates leads to fairly average conference records. He beats up on teams below him in the college football pecking order to get those winning records.

He does refute the "no one builds a coaching career on lower rates recruits" in that he has done ok for himself, but let's not act like he's winning those games with nothing but 2 star guys. In extending this point to North Texas, we don't get the luxury of beating up on as many teams as far down the pecking order every season. We need to compete for conference titles and that will be very difficult with a 9-10 ranked class every year.

17 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

When I come on this board, I wonder if I should just hang myself, shoot myself with a pistol in my mouth, shoot myself with a pistol to the side of the head, shotgun with a string tied to my toe, gas oven, car turned on in the garage, or go all Marilyn and leave a beautiful corpse with some delicious barbiturates.

I think we can rule out you shooting yourself.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · January 19, 2017

On 1/17/2017 at 0:19 PM, UNT90 said:

No it isn't. And hasn't been. Talent wins.

Always?

Oh, here's a guy who doesn't recruit with the best of them at his level, but has done pretty well coaching up what he can get on has campus:

20140911__140911_GaryPatterson_listing.j

22 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

If we end up with any potential applicants that are worried they might get fired halfway through their fifth season after losing 20 games twice in their first four seasons then we don't want those guys.

It doesn't matter to me if and when he's fired. What I'm worried about on the firings of any coach is how long did we promise to pay him? And, how much?

At least with Benford, the contract is simply over after this season and not renewed. And, so...the glitch is fixed with the added benefit of avoiding confrontation: