MGB: Follow-up thoughts on the addition of Marty Biagi

[BTG_Fan1]

Had Perry even signed anyone? 

[greenminer]

3 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Had Perry even signed anyone? 

Jeffrey Wilson

[UNT90]

13 hours ago, UNT Mean Green said:

Examples?

UTSA beating us out for the Lake Worth kid. 

Look, Littrell and co. got one recruit from Denton County that other schools wanted. That's one more than Mac, but still woefully underperforming. 

UNT had a foothold in East Texas, but that appeared to be Perry's doing. 

Point is UNT first needs to establish recruiting strongholds before they expand them. Right now UNT mostly just takes the leftovers. 

That is no way to build a winner.

Here is hoping that changes between now and Feb 3, but time is running out. 

[wardly]

Texas State has 4 recruits from Area Top 100 according to 247 in today's DMN,SMU 3, Tulsa 2 ,UTSA ,Rice, and North Texas 1 each. I assume the term "area" includes Denton county as well as those surrounding Dallas/Ft.Worth. Regardless, I certainly did not expect to be out recruited in our back yard by the Bobcats.

[MeanGreen13]

13 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Are you sure about Saban coaching safeties?  Derrick Ansley's bio indicates that he coaches all DBs, including safeties.

Anyhow, SL coaching RBs is a possibility I hadn't thought of.  It would surprise me, but it is possible.

 Im basing that on videos i have seen of their practices where saban helps out with the safeties when he isnt busy running the show. I know that is his background so i think that is why they dont have a dedicated safeties coach. 

[UNT Mean Green]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

UTSA beating us out for the Lake Worth kid. 

Look, Littrell and co. got one recruit from Denton County that other schools wanted. That's one more than Mac, but still woefully underperforming. 

UNT had a foothold in East Texas, but that appeared to be Perry's doing. 

Point is UNT first needs to establish recruiting strongholds before they expand them. Right now UNT mostly just takes the leftovers. 

That is no way to build a winner.

Here is hoping that changes between now and Feb 3, but time is running out. 

The Lake Dallas kid signed with UTSA in 2015, and according to the recruiting websites that everyone bases off of, had zero other offers. He's turned into a heck of a player for UTSA and kudos to Coker and his staff for finding a diamond in the rough.

That was 2015.

For relevance in evaluating the current staff's performance against your claim that "we are getting killed by every program in Denton County": 

How many FBS signees were there in Denton County in the class of 2016? Where did they end up signing and did we recruit and/or offer them (according to recruiting websites)? 2016 can easily be debated whether this was a result of McCarneys staff or Littrell's doing with timing.

Kaden Smith, TE (Flower Mound Marcus) signed at Stanford and we did not offer

Brandon Bowen, DE (Trophy Club Byron Nelson) signed at TCU and we offered

Kellen Diesch, OT (Trophy Club Byron Nelson) signed at aTm and we offered 

Denzel Okafor, OL (Lewisville) signed at Texas and we did not offer

J.C. Chalk, TE (Argyle) signed at Clemson and we did not offer 

Nick Starkel, QB (Argyle Liberty Christian) signed at aTm and we did offer (Littrell)

Andrew Fitzgerald, DE (Flower Mound Marcus) signed with Texas and we did not offer 

Ken McLaurin, DT (Denton Ryan) signed with SMU and we did offer 

Dacoven Bailey, WR (Pilot Point) signed with Rutgers and we did not offer

Justin Self, OL (Trophy Club Byron Nelson) signed with Navy and we did not offer 

Chandler Claterbaugh, DB (Flower Mound) signed with Air Force and we did not offer 

Troy Elliott, OL (Flower Mound Marcus) signed with Arkansas State and we did not offer 

Daegan Haehn, QB (Lake Dallas) signed with Kansas and we did not offer

Keegan Brewer, WR (Lake Dallas) signed with Kansas and we did not offer

According to the 2016 list of Denton County signees we lost head to head battles with TCU, aTm (X2), and SMU. Several of the FBS signees in the area we did not offer, based on the recruiting website's accounting.

 

Looking at this same data in 2017, which is all Littrell's staff here's where we sit in Denton County:

Tyrell Shavers, WR (Lewisville) committed to Alabama and we offered

Grant Polley, OL (Denton High) committed to Colorado and we offered

Javaris Steward, LB (Denton Ryan) committed to UTSA and we have not offered (off the field troubles) 

Earnest Brown, DE (Denton Ryan) committed to Northwestern and we have offered

Brian Polendey, TE (Denton Guyer) committed to Miami and we have not offered

Kobe Boyce, DB (Lake Dallas) committed to Texas and we have not offered 

Gavin Holmes, WR (Justin Northwest) uncommitted and we have offered

Matt Hankins, DB (Flower Mound Marcus) committed to Iowa and we have not offered 

Caden McDonald, LB (Justin Northwest) committed to San Diego State and we have offered

Bryce Jackson, DB (Denton Guyer) committed to Northwestern and we have not offered

Chris Miller, DB (Denton High) committed to Colorado and we have offered

Thabo Mwaniki, ATH (Denton Guyer) committed to Oklahoma State and we have offered 

Dane Ledford, QB (Argyle) committed to Tulane and we have not offered 

Delano Robinson, DB (Denton Ryan) committed to SMU and we have not offered 

According to the 2017 list of Denton County commitments we are currently losing head to head battles with Alabama, Colorado, Northwestern, Oklahoma State, and San Diego State. Pretty good company, showing that this staff is recruiting the 'right kids'. We have the reigning 2016 Area MVP in Tyreke Davis committed. Several of the FBS signees in the area we have not offered based on the recruiting website's accounting.

Does that define "getting killed by everyone"?

Edited January 15, 2017 by UNT Mean Green

[UNT90]

10 minutes ago, UNT Mean Green said:

The Lake Dallas kid signed with UTSA in 2015, and according to the recruiting websites that everyone bases off of, had zero other offers. He's turned into a heck of a player for UTSA and kudos to Coker and his staff for finding a diamond in the rough.

That was 2015.

For relevance in evaluating the current staff's performance against your claim that "we are getting killed by every program in Denton County": 

How many FBS signees were there in Denton County in the class of 2016? Where did they end up signing and did we recruit and/or offer them (according to recruiting websites)? 2016 can easily be debated whether this was a result of McCarneys staff or Littrell's doing with timing.

Kaden Smith, TE (Flower Mound Marcus) signed at Stanford and we did not offer

Brandon Bowen, DE (Trophy Club Byron Nelson) signed at TCU and we offered

Kellen Diesch, OT (Trophy Club Byron Nelson) signed at aTm and we offered 

Denzel Okafor, OL (Lewisville) signed at Texas and we did not offer

J.C. Chalk, TE (Argyle) signed at Clemson and we did not offer 

Nick Starkel, QB (Argyle Liberty Christian) signed at aTm and we did offer (Littrell)

Andrew Fitzgerald, DE (Flower Mound Marcus) signed with Texas and we did not offer 

Ken McLaurin, DT (Denton Ryan) signed with SMU and we did offer 

Dacoven Bailey, WR (Pilot Point) signed with Rutgers and we did not offer

Justin Self, OL (Trophy Club Byron Nelson) signed with Navy and we did not offer 

Chandler Claterbaugh, DB (Flower Mound) signed with Air Force and we did not offer 

Troy Elliott, OL (Flower Mound Marcus) signed with Arkansas State and we did not offer 

Daegan Haehn, QB (Lake Dallas) signed with Kansas and we did not offer

Keegan Brewer, WR (Lake Dallas) signed with Kansas and we did not offer

According to the 2016 list of Denton County signees we lost head to head battles with TCU, aTm (X2), and SMU. Several of the FBS signees in the area we did not offer, based on the recruiting website's accounting.

 

Looking at this same data in 2017, which is all Littrell's staff here's where we sit in Denton County:

Tyrell Shavers, WR (Lewisville) committed to Alabama and we offered

Grant Polley, OL (Denton High) committed to Colorado and we offered

Javaris Steward, LB (Denton Ryan) committed to UTSA and we have not offered (off the field troubles) 

Earnest Brown, DE (Denton Ryan) committed to Northwestern and we have offered

Brian Polendey, TE (Denton Guyer) committed to Miami and we have not offered

Kobe Boyce, DB (Lake Dallas) committed to Texas and we have not offered 

Gavin Holmes, WR (Justin Northwest) uncommitted and we have offered

Matt Hankins, DB (Flower Mound Marcus) committed to Iowa and we have not offered 

Caden McDonald, LB (Justin Northwest) committed to San Diego State and we have offered

Bryce Jackson, DB (Denton Guyer) committed to Northwestern and we have not offered

Chris Miller, DB (Denton High) committed to Colorado and we have offered

Thabo Mwaniki, ATH (Denton Guyer) committed to Oklahoma State and we have offered 

Dane Ledford, QB (Argyle) committed to Tulane and we have not offered 

Delano Robinson, DB (Denton Ryan) committed to SMU and we have not offered 

According to the 2017 list of Denton County commitments we are currently losing head to head battles with Alabama, Colorado, Northwestern, Oklahoma State, and San Diego State. Pretty good company, showing that this staff is recruiting the 'right kids'. We have the reigning 2016 Area MVP in Tyreke Davis committed. Several of the FBS signees in the area we have not offered based on the recruiting website's accounting.

Does that define "getting killed by everyone"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it does. Read your own post.

And my bad, was thinking of this kid this year: 

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20161204-lake-dallas-ijiyera-commits-to-play-at-texas-st..ece

So Texas St., not UTSA, which is worse in my book.

I had him mixed up with Arlington Heights WR Tariq Woolen, who picked UTSA over us even though his former QB is at UNT. 

I don't hold Littrell responsible for 2015 or even 2016, but he is responsible for this year. Still time left, but not looking very promising just 3 weeks from national signing day.

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by UNT90

[BTG_Fan1]

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

Jeffrey Wilson

I meant for this class... 

[UNT Mean Green]

50 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Yes, it does. Read your own post.

And my bad, was thinking of this kid this year: 

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20161204-lake-dallas-ijiyera-commits-to-play-at-texas-st..ece

So Texas St., not UTSA, which is worse in my book.

I had him mixed up with Arlington Heights WR Tariq Woolen, who picked UTSA over us even though his former QB is at UNT. 

I don't hold Littrell responsible for 2015 or even 2016, but he is responsible for this year. Still time left, but not looking very promising just 3 weeks from national signing day.

 

You still haven't given any basis for your accusation.

What is your definition of getting "killed"?

Not offering kids, based on the staff's collective evaluation, that sign with other programs? 

OR

Offering national recruits who sign at Top 25 programs?

Are you expecting us to beat Alabama, aTm, Texas, Miami, Northwestern, Colorado, Oklahoma State, and TCU head to head on recruits currently? If so, is that truly realistic at this stage in our program?

[UNT90]

27 minutes ago, UNT Mean Green said:

You still haven't given any basis for your accusation.

What is your definition of getting "killed"?

Not offering kids, based on the staff's collective evaluation, that sign with other programs? 

OR

Offering national recruits who sign at Top 25 programs?

Are you expecting us to beat Alabama, aTm, Texas, Miami, Northwestern, Colorado, Oklahoma State, and TCU head to head on recruits currently? If so, is that truly realistic at this stage in our program?

By your own post, which is obviously incomplete because it did not include the Lake Dallas kid, UNT pulled zero recruits from Denton County (Again, incomplete because I know the RB from Ryan ? Is committed). Losing a recruit to Texas St and SMU and losing multiple recruits to the "big boys," if you consider Colorado of a year ago a big boy. 

Dodge scored several victories over such schools. As did UTSA this year.

Is it your position that UNT can't compete with the Colorados and Kansas's of the world? If so, UNT should just give up and drop down to FCS.

Dear God, please expect more.

[GrandGreen]

If the DMN doesn't indicate that NT is not doing well in the area, than I am not sure what does?  Not being competitive with SMU in recruiting and even getting beat by the Texas newcomer twins UTSA & TSSM,  Not to mention even worse, the last time I looked at the ratings, being behind ULM and being close to the bottom of CUSA.

All this could change by signing day, but it is long shot.  

I will go full unpopular now, I was disappointed that Baker made the comments he did about recruiting.  I have heard that same refrain forever from teams that are the bottom of the recruiting ladder.    He indicated there was very little validity in the recruit ratings once you got pass the top echelon that the top power teams fight for.    It has been proven over and over that the higher the player is rated, the more likely he is be successful.   The logic is simple, the ratings are almost entirely based on who recruits who.  A player that has been deemed more scholarship worthy by a number of teams is rated higher than ones with less attention.  

On a positive note, I though Littrell first year high school recruits have mostly been good or promising.   So thus far, I think NT has done pretty well finding players that will contribute.   However, I think in the long run to get to where NT wants to be, there are going to have to be a lot more recruiting wins over peer programs.   

Edited January 15, 2017 by GrandGreen

[UNT90]

22 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

If the DMN doesn't indicate that NT is not doing well in the area, than I am not sure what does?  Not being competitive with SMU in recruiting and even getting beat by the Texas newcomer twins UTSA & TSSM,  Not to mention even worse, the last time I looked at the ratings, being behind ULM and being close to the bottom of CUSA.

All this could change by signing day, but it is long shot.  

I will go full unpopular now, I was disappointed that Baker made the comments he did about recruiting.  I have heard that same refrain forever from teams that are the bottom of the recruiting ladder.    He indicated there was very little validity in the recruit ratings once you got pass the top echelon that the top power teams fight for.    It has been proven over and over that the higher the player is rated, the more likely he is be successful.   The logic is simple, the ratings are almost entirely based on who recruits who.  A player that has been deemed more scholarship worthy by a number of teams is rated higher than ones with less attention.  

On a positive note, I though Littrell first year high school recruits have mostly been good or promising.   So thus far, I think NT has done pretty well finding players that will contribute.   However, I think in the long run to get to where NT wants to be, there are going to have to be a lot more recruiting wins over peer programs.   

Baker said what every coach/AD will say when they have a badly rated class. It's pure coach speak. I promise you if UNT had the top rated class in CUSA, you would be hearing about it from the AD. Hell, they would be dumb not to market the hell out of that, both publicly and privately to the next recruiting class.

Those comments don't bother me, because what else is he going to say? Something disparaging about the kids that are signed? What would bother me is if he actually believed it. I don't think he does. Not for a second.

[GMG24]

51 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

By your own post, which is obviously incomplete because it did not include the Lake Dallas kid, UNT pulled zero recruits from Denton County (Again, incomplete because I know the RB from Ryan ? Is committed). Losing a recruit to Texas St and SMU and losing multiple recruits to the "big boys," if you consider Colorado of a year ago a big boy. 

Dodge scored several victories over such schools. As did UTSA this year.

Is it your position that UNT can't compete with the Colorados and Kansas's of the world? If so, UNT should just give up and drop down to FCS.

Dear God, please expect more.

They're a Pac 12 (or however many there are now) team.  We should not beat them for recruits and if we do we should be VERY happy.  Kansas is still a big 12 school even if a bottom feeder.  Should we be able to get a kid or two that Kansas wants? Probably.  But I would not in anyway say losing a kid to a Colorado type program is an issue.  Weren't they ranked several times this season?

[wardly]

My issue is not that we are getting out recruited by the Power 5 Conferences, its the Group of 5 schools that I have a hard time with.And Baker's comments are pure bull shit.The next thing out of his mouth will be about how hard it is for North Texas to recruit in DFW.At this point in my life I am tired of hearing about the labor pains, I just want to see the baby.

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, GMG24 said:

They're a Pac 12 (or however many there are now) team.  We should not beat them for recruits and if we do we should be VERY happy.  Kansas is still a big 12 school even if a bottom feeder.  Should we be able to get a kid or two that Kansas wants? Probably.  But I would not in anyway say losing a kid to a Colorado type program is an issue.  Weren't they ranked several times this season?

And this mentality among this fan base is why we are who we are. Dunbar had an offer from K St. 

Do you think La. Tech fans are happy with just taking the leftovers? It's clear UTSA isn't. Who do you want to be? Western Michigan or SFA? 

Because one glance at W. Michigan and who they beat out for recruits shows you why they went 13-0 and played and competed in the Cotton Bowl this year:

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Justin-Tranquill-29181/RecruitInterests

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Wesley-French-57773/RecruitInterests

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Kadeem-Goulbourne-22342/RecruitInterests

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Justin-Spencer-33682/RecruitInterests

That's just the class of 2015. When they were coming off a terrible season. And the coach recruited 12 three star players. Because he was a good recruiter. 

The question is: who do you want to be? SFA or W. Michigan? Far too many in this fan base are perfectly happy with the status quo. Well, the status quo ain't cutting it. This recruiting class so far ain't cutting it. 

So... Who do you want to be? The same old losing UNT with the same old excuses? Or maybe something more? I know how W. Michigan answered that question, and I know how UNT has historically answered it. 

Expect more

Edited January 15, 2017 by UNT90

[GMG24]

7 hours ago, UNT90 said:

And this mentality among this fan base is why we are who we are. Dunbar had an offer from K St. 

Do you think La. Tech fans are happy with just taking the leftovers? It's clear UTSA isn't. Who do you want to be? Western Michigan or SFA? 

Because one glance at W. Michigan and who they beat out for recruits shows you why they went 13-0 and played and competed in the Cotton Bowl this year:

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Justin-Tranquill-29181/RecruitInterests

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Wesley-French-57773/RecruitInterests

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Kadeem-Goulbourne-22342/RecruitInterests

http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Justin-Spencer-33682/RecruitInterests

That's just the class of 2015. When they were coming off a terrible season. And the coach recruited 12 three star players. Because he was a good recruiter. 

The question is: who do you want to be? SFA or W. Michigan? Far too many in this fan base are perfectly happy with the status quo. Well, the status quo ain't cutting it. This recruiting class so far ain't cutting it. 

So... Who do you want to be? The same old losing UNT with the same old excuses? Or maybe something more? I know how W. Michigan answered that question, and I know how UNT has historically answered it. 

Expect more

1). WR - Deion Hair-Griffin (5-8, 150) Fort Worth, Texas   RS
2).  OL - TJ Henson  (6-5, 305) Plano, Texas 
3).  DE - Joshua Wheeler  (6-3, 240) Grand Prairie, Texas 
4).  DE - Joseph Ozougwu  (6-3, 230) Houston, Texas  GS from previous staff 
5). DT - Bryce English - (5-11, 295) DeSoto, Texas RS TRANSFER
6). QB - Alec Morris - (6-3, 233) Allen, Texas
7). WR - Rico Bussey - (6-2, 175) Lawton, Oklahoma   
8). DB - Khairi Muhammad - (5-9, 170) DeSoto, Texas 
9). DB - Dee Baulkman - (5-10, 200) Yuma, Arizona
10). QB - Mason Fine - (5-10, 170) Locust Grove, Oklahoma 
11). DB - Darius Turner - (6-1, 172) Nashville, Tennessee 
12). LB - William Johnson - (6-3, 225) Coral Springs, Florida 
13). OL - Chandler Anthony - (6-7, 280) Tuttle, Oklahoma RS
14). RB - Nic Smith - (5-10, 175) Arlington, Texas RS (PROBABLY BEST SIGNEE IN THE CLASS IMO)
15). WR - Tyler Wilson - (5-10, 170) Arlington, Texas 
16). DB - Jameel Moore - (5-10, 170) Cedar Hill, Texas 
17). LB - Ejiya Ejodamen - (6-3, 235) Minneapolis, Minnesota 
18). OL - Cody Hayes - (6-5, 305) Fort Worth, Texas 
19). LB - La'Darius Hamilton - (6-3, 245) Corrigan, Texas 

Aside from Hayes Turner and Johnson who didn't make it to campus please do tell who the staff totally Wiffed on?  

They then added Jenkins, Wyche, Holston (still has a shot at being eligible was taking classes this year to qualify) Jalen Thomas and Quenitin Jackson 

 

They took shots to win now, I can't fault them for that.  Seems they've learned their lesson and went after mid term JUCO guys they knew would be on campus and are focusing on HS ranks.  I would imagine a grad transfer or two is still possible if its at a position of need.  

 

If you think I have any desire other than Championships and to move up in the college football world you haven't had enough conversations with me.  We have a LONG way to go.  If you want to win now you best be ready to take sanctions ala SMU.  If you want to build it right it may take a few years to win and build the belief that what you're doing works.  Are there areas our recruiting needs to improve absolutely. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by GMG24

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, GMG24 said:

Are there areas our recruiting needs to improve absolutely. 

So you are saying we agree, then. My posts are specific to this class. 

You usually get a pretty good sense of how good of recruiters a new staff are by their first full class. If we don't improve this class drastically in the next 3 weeks, it doesn't bode well for the future. I mean, kill the messenger if you must, but it is what it is. 

[GMG24]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

So you are saying we agree, then. My posts are specific to this class. 

You usually get a pretty good sense of how good of recruiters a new staff are by their first full class. If we don't improve this class drastically in the next 3 weeks, it doesn't bode well for the future. I mean, kill the messenger if you must, but it is what it is. 

You didn't answer me. 

[UNT90]

3 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

You didn't answer me. 

Which question? Who they whiffed on? Two examples already posted earlier in the thread. Now a question for you:

If this class ends up ranked 9th or lower in CUSA, will that cause you concern? If not, why not?

Edited January 16, 2017 by UNT90

[GMG24]

3 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Which question? Who they whiffed on? Two examples already posted earlier in the thread. Now a question for you:

If this class ends up ranked 9th or lower in CUSA, will that cause you concern? If not, why not?

I'm still on the last class... and I'm always concerned about classes......

[UNT90]

3 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I'm still on the last class... and I'm always concerned about classes......

My posts haven't been about the last class. I even stated I don't hold Littrell responsible for 2016 because he didn't have time to assemble a class. Not so for 2017, and so far it hasn't been impressive.

Now, back to my questions to you...