MGB: Report shows UNT athletics finished with $20 million deficit in 2014-15

Brett Vito · January 3, 2017

MGB: UNT had largest deficit of Texas' three C-USA schools

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2017/01/report-unt-athletics-finished-with-a-20-million-deficit-in-2016.html/

All About UNT · January 3, 2017

Holy. Shit.

UTSA Fan · January 3, 2017

Seems unsustainable...

Wag Tag · January 3, 2017

Need to see the detail to really draw a conclusion! Total numbers can be manipulated! GMG

UTSA Fan · January 3, 2017

4 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Need to see the detail to really draw a conclusion! Total numbers can be manipulated! GMG

Agreed. I have no idea if that is actually a lot or how easily that can be resolved

DeepGreen · January 3, 2017

Football Recruiting

Texas Tech - $659,630

A & M - $548,352

UT - $517,185

UTEP - $285,195

UTSA - $215,413

UH - $200,000

UNT - $199,566

Tx State - $164,316

GMG24 · January 3, 2017

2 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Football Recruiting

Texas Tech - $659,630

A & M - $548,352

UT - $517,185

UTEP - $285,195

UTSA - $215,413

UH - $200,000

UNT - $199,566

Tx State - $164,316

Interesting. We really need to look at Herman model of hiring one or two people whose only job is graphics work to be used on social media.

TreeFiddy · January 3, 2017

This is what it looks like to actually be committed to athletics. It takes money. Lot's of it. Consider it advertising for the school.

If we have aspirations of being considered an upper echelong G5 team, who is serious about competing at the highest level, we actually need to increase our budget to the $45MM range.

All About UNT · January 3, 2017

4 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

This is what it looks like to actually be committed to athletics. It takes money. Lot's of it. Consider it advertising for the school.

If we have aspirations of being considered an upper echelong G5 team, who is serious about competing at the highest level, we actually need to increase our budget to the $45MM range.

Sorry but before you start suggesting we need to increase our spend we need to address obvious discrepancies in our ROI on current spending (pre-Wren) and get that crap mitigated.

Christopher Walker · January 3, 2017

21 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Interesting. We really need to look at Herman model of hiring one or two people whose only job is graphics work to be used on social media.

Our current Director of Football Ops seems to be the one doing it currently. He's not bad at all, but you're right - need personnel devoted only to those aspects of recruiting. He's got bigger things on his plate.

DeepGreen · January 3, 2017

At least we rid ourselves of the CEO who was/is responsible for this mess. Question is, how do we correct it?

TreeFiddy · January 3, 2017

1 minute ago, All About UNT said:

Sorry but before you start suggesting we need to increase our spend we need to address obvious discrepancies in our ROI on current spending (pre-Wren) and get that crap mitigated.

This is not news. We have known for a long time that the student fee brings in just shy of $11MM and the university adds a little over $9MM for a total of $20MM subsidy. That is all the report is saying. There is not an additional $20MM on top of the student fee and university subsidy that we already know about.

I seem to recall many on here calling for, actually demanding, an increase to the student fee, which would create an even larger subsidy (i.e. deficit). Personally, before the student fee is increased I would like to see the university match the amount paid by the students. If and when the student fee is increase, I would want to see the university match the same amount so their is an equal partnership between the university and the students. So, if the students are kicking in $11MM then the university should have to kick in $11MM.

PlummMeanGreen · January 3, 2017

Whoa boy.?

G5 class action suit vs P5 needed very quickly (as we need much more annual TV revenue) as well as playing more (name) schools at Apogee that produce better gate revenues plus private donors.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · January 3, 2017

1 hour ago, DeepGreen said:

Football Recruiting

Texas Tech - $659,630

A & M - $548,352

UT - $517,185

UTEP - $285,195

UTSA - $215,413

UH - $200,000

UNT - $199,566

Tx State - $164,316

Hard to see why we do so poorly in recruiting...

TreeFiddy · January 3, 2017

For anyone who hasn't seen it before, here is a link to the USA Today website that shows this info. Click on the school name to see a break down of the numbers.

North Texas had the 85th largest budget in the 2014-2015 season and the 5th overall budget in CUSA. I am not sure when newer data will be made available.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

risinggreen · January 3, 2017

41 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Hard to see why we do so poorly in recruiting...

I think some of it has to do with the fact that we and Houston recruit mainly in our own backyards, which is probably why we both are at the 200K level. Most of the others in "our class" tend to have to move around the state a bit more.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · January 3, 2017

15 minutes ago, risinggreen said:

I think some of it has to do with the fact that we and Houston recruit mainly in our own backyards, which is probably why we both are at the 200K level. Most of the others in "our class" tend to have to move around the state a bit more.

Like UTSA, who has out-recruited us this year, also in our backyard? All I'm saying is we are in the most diluted recruiting pool in the nation after everyone else has their pick of recruits, couldn't hurt to move around the state or out of state some more. Houston does well in Houston, we don't do well in DFW.

PlummMeanGreen · January 3, 2017

5 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Like UTSA, who has out-recruited us this year, also in our backyard? All I'm saying is we are in the most diluted recruiting pool in the nation after everyone else has their pick of recruits, couldn't hurt to move around the state or out of state some more. Houston does well in Houston, we don't do well in DFW.

Before we crown UTSA as the CUSA recruiting King might we wait until after National signing day to see who stuck, who changed their minds after a P5 offered or didn't make their grades?

I agree, CRW, with the other part of your comment, but I would add east Texas & Louisiana to the mix.

Also agree with GMG24's idea of hiring one who is full time with the social media aspects of recruiting.

I have faith that our new staff will solve this deficit problem in due time.

UH president said after the Coogs got the cold shoulder from the Big 12 that that school was going to have to have a "come to Jesus' about their deficit. Not sure we're totally at that stage yet, but for us at least maybe a "come to Matthew, Mark, Luke or John" would be more in order.

The CUSA East upstarts when they come to Denton will kill our gate receipt opportunities at Apogee. Wish we could have a league of those who actually want to be at the next level (as in CUSA West plus La Tech/Southern Miss) rather than be in one that will keep us all where we're at.

❓Might the NCAA give such a new conference a waiver on all those things that keep any new conference from forming? We do live in different times economically.

Suggest to NCAA powers that with us it's all about having no TV revenue that creating such a more regionalized conference would help mostly because their other half's intent on keeping all the chicken salad while our spread out coast to coast G5 conferences get to keep the chicken bones.

Its time to be very creative among all of the G5 who don't want a playoff that forever will keep us all at a de facto 1-AA level with never a chance to be the next Boise State or Louisville or...Western Michigan (of which it's AD "understandably" spoke loudly against a G5 play-off).

Tough times ahead if our leaders don't take the bull by the horns & get UNT in a more Big Boy'esque kind of setting that will set the stage for an eventual P5 entry. Lest some forget, we are in a major league sports market of which TCU at this point seems to be the only DFW school who understands that.

Edited January 3, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

UNT90 · January 3, 2017

1/20th of the amount will be paying off DMac and RV's contracts next year...

Hire better.

VideoEagle · January 3, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

1/20th of the amount will be paying off DMac and RV's contracts next year...

Hire better.

Yes we should, but we also can't change what has happened. Plus, EVERY coaching hire is a gamble so we need to be ready to buy out contracts if a coach isn't working out after a reasonable amount of time. "Reasonable" is up for definition - some would suggest a single bad loss while other's would give five years - but the fact of the mater is buy out money is going to be needed at some point no matter who is hiring whom.

GrandGreen · January 3, 2017

Note, UH had a $26.6k deficit and TSU $23.6k.

I think any of this financial data has to be viewed with caution. There are just too many ways to alter the data to fit the agenda you want and as far as I can tell few reporting standards. However, a few interesting stats.

Student designated athletic fees:

NT 10,724k

UH 7, 260

TSU 17,316

UTEP 5,935

UTSA 12,022

Although NT is in the middle of this group, half of those fees unlike every other college is restricted to debt service. So on an unrestricted basis, NT has the lowest student athletic fees. Not advocating an increase in those fees, just pointing out that NT's decision to finance Apogee primarily with student funds is having an effect on current funding.

Debt Service in Expenses:

NT 5,146k

UH 5, 219

TSU 3,635

UTEP 58

UTSA 768

Loss with debt service eliminated:

NT (14,889)k

UH (21,398)

TSU (19,827)

UTEP (15,450)

UTSA (12,396)

Still far from good, but inline with other state g5's results.

Support staff:

I think it should be noted that NT had the second highest expense in this category (distance second to UH). Yet, were last in contributions received , ahead of only TSU in sponsorships and royalty income, and ticket sales. With Baker adding substantial costs for athletic administration, these numbers have to greatly improve.

UTSA Fan · January 3, 2017

8 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Like UTSA, who has out-recruited us this year, also in our backyard? All I'm saying is we are in the most diluted recruiting pool in the nation after everyone else has their pick of recruits, couldn't hurt to move around the state or out of state some more. Houston does well in Houston, we don't do well in DFW.

CRW I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning. The pool is diluted because other schools take kids and we get what's left. UT and OSU wouldn't say it's diluted. It's a matter of perspective based on your recruiting success. The answer isn't sucking somewhere else, but being good where you are.

Edited January 3, 2017 by UTSA Fan

Aldo · January 3, 2017

I mean, it's not even the cost of a G6, so...

UNTLifer · January 3, 2017

We need a big push for the Mean Green Club and season tickets. Cerebus has done a number of articles on how low our numbers are and the lack of increase under RV's watch. For a university our size and the number of alumni we create, these numbers are ridiculously low. Even if we doubled both the MGC and season tickets, it would still be too low for the fourth largest university in the state.

VideoEagle · January 3, 2017

53 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

We need a big push for the Mean Green Club and season tickets. Cerebus has done a number of articles on how low our numbers are and the lack of increase under RV's watch. For a university our size and the number of alumni we create, these numbers are ridiculously low. Even if we doubled both the MGC and season tickets, it would still be too low for the fourth largest university in the state.

This is exactly what we need to do. A G5 school simply isn't going to have large media rights money. All the G5s are going to see decreases in what they get for their rights simply because there isn't the money available that there once was. Advertisers are now concentrating on ACTUAL eyeball and no longer buying the "potential" viewers based on market size. And the cash the media companies received from subscribers is steadily declining between the "cord cutters" and more a la carte offerings that don't include ESPN et al.

@Arkstfan several years ago showed how increasing ticket sales and fan donations will actually generate MORE money than G5 schools ever got from TV. You do that by building the fan base. And the surest way to build a fan base is playing regional schools that fans can develop a real want to beat.