Sawyer to Transfer from TCU

greenminer · January 5, 2017

We're all assuming Fine will develop and improve just because he has time on his side.

He does have time, but what if he has already hit his physical ceiling?

Aldo · January 5, 2017

8 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

The first one is a 20 yard crossing route, not a deep ball.

I assume you meant the second gif on the dig from Smiley. It's still an intermediate ball that was delivered in stride.

8 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

The second one is legit and one I didn't remember. It's also a throw he didn't make this year other than a handful of times at most.

Its a problem that needs to be fixed.

It is true, and he does need more consistency, but at least we know he *can* do it. And can do it scoring points.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Aldo

UNTLifer · January 5, 2017

1 hour ago, aztecskin said:

Hurm. That first throw looks like he hit is man . . . in stride. I was told this didn't happen, tho.

My thoughts too. The second throw was also right on the money and required some zip to hit Smiley in stride.

TheReal_jayD · January 5, 2017

1 hour ago, aztecskin said:

Hurm. That first throw looks like he hit is man . . . in stride. I was told this didn't happen, tho.

the footage has to be doctored. or an optical illusion.. it cant be....

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Now what you say is generally true. He has been inconsistent and needs to work on the fade and downfield accuracy in general.

I won't go as far to say that will be the reason he loses/doesn't win the starting job next fall. He's got a year in the system, and that puts him at an advantage for a few games - unless you just can't keep one of the other guys off the field day 1.

These fade routes are sometimes peeks, where the QB is reading defensive keys after the snap, and will cheat and peek the fade. In the GIF below, the cross route from the Y receiver (Thompson) ends up eating three defenders, and Robinson is one on one, with a step on his guy.

The second GIF below is Mesh - the same one that Morris scored a TD with Tyler Wilson in the bowl game (@aztecskin talked a little bit about this). Fine actually throws a TD to Tyler Wilson later on in this game on the same play.

Point is, he's got the ability to move the offense, just needs to be more consistent, and make better choices.

that impressive. he made 2 "good passes" all year and you were able to turn them into gifs

GMG24 · January 5, 2017

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

The first one is a 20 yard crossing route, not a deep ball.

The second one is legit and one I didn't remember. It's also a throw he didn't make this year other than a handful of times at most.

Its a problem that needs to be fixed.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/25/p2

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/468/p3

Edited January 5, 2017 by GMG24

UNT90 · January 5, 2017

Crossing routs aren't deep balls. Good Lord.

Deniers deny. I promise you the coaching staff knows this is an issue. If Fine doesn't dramatically improve his deep ball before the end of Spring practice, he will most likely find himself #2 on the depth chart.

emmitt01 · January 5, 2017

2 hours ago, aztecskin said:

Hurm. That first throw looks like he hit is man . . . in stride. I was told this didn't happen, tho.

That NEVER happened and you can't show me one time it did. Not one time...

Except that one time, but that doesn't count because it wasn't two times

GMG24 · January 6, 2017

31 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Crossing routs aren't deep balls. Good Lord.

Deniers deny. I promise you the coaching staff knows this is an issue. If Fine doesn't dramatically improve his deep ball before the end of Spring practice, he will most likely find himself #2 on the depth chart.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs-in-focus-deep-passing-2/

You are correct, typically crossing routes occur in 1-5 yard range. In the Mesh concept gif posted above the crossing route is ran by Thad and I can't make other receivers number. The dig which should be between 15-17 is gorgeous. The WR is running a bit too much upfield before the catch (could be where the ball took him I can't see his break from that angle). Look you believe what you want. I agree Mason needs to be better on his fades but I am of the belief it's a timing issue for him and not an arm strength issue. Guess time will prove one of us right and one of us wrong.

UNT90 · January 6, 2017

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

That NEVER happened and you can't show me one time it did. Not one time...

Except that one time, but that doesn't count because it wasn't two times

Except that isn't what I said...

25 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs-in-focus-deep-passing-2/

You are correct, typically crossing routes occur in 1-5 yard range. In the Mesh concept gif posted above the crossing route is ran by Thad and I can't make other receivers number. The dig which should be between 15-17 is gorgeous. The WR is running a bit too much upfield before the catch (could be where the ball took him I can't see his break from that angle). Look you believe what you want. I agree Mason needs to be better on his fades but I am of the belief it's a timing issue for him and not an arm strength issue. Guess time will prove one of us right and one of us wrong.

I think it's mechanics and not timing or arm strength. I also hope it's an adjustment to the college game. Way to much air under those fades.

Whatever on what you want to call the route. It's a 20 yard crossing route, a throw both Riley and MiniMac could also make with ease.

I am glad there is at least one example of Mason making that fade throw. That gives me hope that it can be worked out.

But there is a LOT of work to do.

Edited January 6, 2017 by UNT90

UNT90 · January 6, 2017

4 hours ago, Aldo said:

I assume you meant the second gif on the dig from Smiley. It's still an intermediate ball that was delivered in stride.

It is true, and he does need more consistency, but at least we know he *can* do it. And can do it scoring points.

Intermediate isn't deep.

UNTLifer · January 6, 2017

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Crossing routs aren't deep balls. Good Lord.

Deniers deny. I promise you the coaching staff knows this is an issue. If Fine doesn't dramatically improve his deep ball before the end of Spring practice, he will most likely find himself #2 on the depth chart.

Now don't start that up again.

1. The pass to Robinson is a go route.

2. The throw to Smiley is just fjne.

How about some film of these terrible throws you witnessed. I would love to see what you are referencing.

UNT90 · January 6, 2017

31 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Now don't start that up again.

1. The pass to Robinson is a go route.

2. The throw to Smiley is just fjne.

How about some film of these terrible throws you witnessed. I would love to see what you are referencing.

Go look for yourself. But you will have to go watch games you recorded, because they don't put bad throws up on meangreensports.

If you didn't see it this year, you simply aren't a very observant football fan.

Like I said, the coaches know. That's why the mid and short passing game was choked off. That's why there were 8 in the box the last half of the season. No deep threat from the QB position. That's why Morris would have started the USM game even if Fine were healthy.

Sure, the throw to Smiley is "just fine," problem is it isn't a deep route. You know that, you are just jumping on the pile. It's what you do.

You call it a go route, 24 calls it a fade. Really don't care. It's a deep ball of over 30 yards, and one of the very few that Fine threw on target all year.

I watched the games and know this to be true. I don't need to rewatch them. Apparently you do.

Edited January 6, 2017 by UNT90

UNTLifer · January 6, 2017

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Go look for yourself. But you will have to go watch games you recorded, because they don't put bad throws up on meangreensports.

If you didn't see it this year, you simply aren't a very observant football fan.

Like I said, the coaches know. That's why the mid and short passing game was choked off. That's why there were 8 in the box the last half of the season. No deep threat from the QB position. That's why Morris would have started the USM game even if Fine were healthy.

Sure, the throw to Smiley is "just fine," problem is it isn't a deep route. You know that, you are just jumping on the pile. It's what you do.

You call it a go route, 24 calls it a fade. Really don't care. It's a deep ball of over 30 yards, and one of the very few that Fine threw on target all year.

I watched the games and know this to be true. I don't need to rewatch them. Apparently you do.

There you go again. No need to get everything all wadded up. Look, you mention all of these passes. I asked if you had some film to review. Obviously, you do not. Another poster had some film of Fine makimg the exact throws you said he was unable to make. You claim they are a needle in a haystack. Many others disagree with your opinion. You resort to calling people deniers, claim I jump on the pile because that is what I do, whatever that means. I didn't, but I did ask for some examples to back up your claims. As usual, you can't. Then you wrap up your little diatribe by taking a shot at me. You just can't resist, can't play nice, can you? Your act is a whipping. Quit playing the victim and learn how to have a conversation without attacking opinions you don't agree with. Oh, and I realize this may be asking too much, but you are not always correct. Realizing that and exhibiting some humility would go a long way. Happy New Year

Wag Tag · January 6, 2017

You definatly saw the difference from Masons deep ball and Alec's! Being able to have time in the pocket makes a big difference. A lot of that time is determined how quickly the Qb bailes. Hate to say but because of size Mason was bailing a lot quicker than Alec. When you can't see you have to adjust quick. Mason has the arm I hope the Oc gets more created on getting him outside the pocket! Would like to see him in a lot of run pass options! Check some of the Boise State plays of the past with there undersized qbs! GMG

Edited January 6, 2017 by Wag Tag

UNT90 · January 6, 2017

It s so tiring to constantly see people on this site ignore a problem simply to have some slight grain of hope. Dear God do I hope that Whren Baker and Coach Littrell can get this thing right so all the faux analysis and denial can finally be put to bed. I get people want something to be excited about, but won't it be nice when you don't have to manufacture it for a change?

If you didn't see that just about every deep ball was underthrown and off the mark, you just weren't paying attention or you were watching this thing through heavily green tinted sunglasses. I started pointing this out during the season. No one disagreed. But now that we have the glory of a 5-7 season and a bowl loss to a 7-5 team under our belt, the deniers want to deny.

So bloody typical of this fanbase. A fanbase that suffers from the worst case of PTSD in history.

Even money that Fine isn't the starter next year. The odds would be better if UNT had better QB signings.

Aldo · January 6, 2017

13 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Intermediate isn't deep.

It's a deep dig in stride. Yeah it's an intermediate pass, but he was able to attack the zone of a defense. Something McNulty couldn't do. He hit him in stride, which allowed Smiley to gain more yards after the catch.

The Air Raid is designed to attack vertically and horizontally. Most routes are designed to be hit behind the sticks, with the opportunity to explode beyond the sticks. This also sets up the guys on the outside to attack deep every once in a while when the defense cheats on the short stuff. Fine needs to get better at exploiting that. I for one am excited to see Pearson come in.

Many folks on this thread have stated several times that Fine needs to improve. Myself included. Not sure why you keep digging in your heels when we are agreeing with you.

I've shown you two examples of good throws by Fine that are not 5 yard stick routes.

Of course that doesn't mean he's a shoe in, Lord knows the not good tape is not good.

But the fact that he's shown evidence of the good means he's capable.

Auto start? No. Chance to compete for the starting spot? Yes.

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

If you didn't see that just about every deep ball was underthrown and off the mark, you just weren't paying attention or you were watching this thing through heavily green tinted sunglasses. I started pointing this out during the season. No one disagreed.

I know several on here pointed out some bad fades in the Bethune Cookman game.

I (as well as others) pointed out bad passing after the Army win, which I forewarned would eventually not go our way (read: UTSA).

You're not the first on here or the last to point out Fine has to be a better passer.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Aldo

GangGreen · January 6, 2017

What does any of this have to do with a transfer from TCU?

Maybe, I'm wrong, but I don't believe this is the purpose of this forum.

UNTLifer · January 6, 2017

I would be curious to know if the Sawyer signing by TCU was to keep one of their deep pocketed donors happy. Sawyer is an All Saint's grad, expensive school, and was a three star player, but he just didn't seem to fit the TCU offense with his size. Pure speculation, because I have never seen the young man play, but I would assume he would fit better in a pro-style offense.

meangreen15 · January 6, 2017

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I would be curious to know if the Sawyer signing by TCU was to keep one of their deep pocketed donors happy. Sawyer is an All Saint's grad, expensive school, and was a three star player, but he just didn't seem to fit the TCU offense with his size. Pure speculation, because I have never seen the young man play, but I would assume he would fit better in a pro-style offense.

I can promise you that recruiting him wasn't to keep boosters happy. He was offered by the likes of Alabama, Arizona State, Oklahoma St, and a handful of other Power 5 schools. To the size point, the other quarterback they brought in that same class is the same size he is. And at that time Casey Pachall was their starting quarterback, who had almost identical measurables to Foster. For whatever reason the game just hasn't been able to click for him so far at this level. Scheme and/or lack of development are probably most likely to blame. I think he'd be worth taking a chance on if he's interested in coming here. I wonder if Harrell and Cumbie have been in contact about him.

TheReal_jayD · January 8, 2017

Foster Sawyer headed to SFA

GMG24 · January 8, 2017

7 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Foster Sawyer headed to SFA

Gulp. Sawyer to Gorree in the Natty to win it! ☹️️?

@UNTSportsFan · January 8, 2017

23 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Gulp. Sawyer to Gorree in the Natty to win it! ☹️️?

They open at smu next season... upset potential ??

UTSA Fan · January 8, 2017

On Thursday, January 05, 2017 at 2:58 PM, greenminer said:

He does have time, but what if he has already hit his physical ceiling?

If he has hit his physical ceiling then this was a terrible signing. I can't believe 4 years of coaching, experience, strength and conditioning training wouldn't make a huge difference. Fines biggest problem was not having the opportunity to develop because he was busy running. The depressing thing is reading on here he has "moxy". That's code for getting drilled all game and still being able to get up. Littrell better get the OL fixed fast because no offense works when your QB is in gtho mode.

Graddean · January 8, 2017

Athletes don't hit their physical ceilings at 18 or 19. Muscular strength and endurance will continue to increase for several years. He might not get any taller, but that doesn't mean he has hit his physical ceiling.

UNT90 · January 8, 2017

4 minutes ago, Graddean said:

Athletes don't hit their physical ceilings at 18 or 19. Muscular strength and endurance will continue to increase for several years. He might not get any taller, but that doesn't mean he has hit his physical ceiling.

No doubt. He just needs to improve his deep ball. A lot.