Group of 5 officials considering playoff for non-Power 5 teams

Monkeypox · December 30, 2016

That's the exact proposal put forth in this thread.

Mean Green Matt · December 30, 2016

2 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

That's the exact proposal put forth in this thread.

I was saying that in jest. It's probably going to take some sort of lawsuit as @UNT90 suggested, but there should be no rest until there is an actual seat at the table for the G5 as in my compromise scenario (P5 schools have 5/60 teams in whereas G5 have 1/70). At least there's a path though. The P5 hand would need to be forced into that sort of compromise.

As for non-champ P5s, Conference play should be the first round of the playoffs and if you don't win, have fun at the Belk Bowl.

Aquila_Viridis · December 30, 2016

You guys seem to want to preserve relevance but from the standpoint of major P5 supporters we don't have it and the only way we could get it is by doubling the budget. All I want is consistent winning and stop playing teams with double or triple the budget, unless we're going to double or triple the budget instead. I don't care who the winning is against. If there was commitment to consistently succeed at 1AA level we'd have been fine there but there was no such commitment.

DeepGreen · December 30, 2016

If this stupid playoff proposal between the G5 conferences comes to pass I'm for going Independent. Might be a death wish but at least it would separate us from the "soon to be irrelevant have nots" of the G5. Could we better ourselves (status, money) by going Indy while the G5's fight over the crumbs?

UTSA Fan · December 30, 2016

4 minutes ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

You guys seem to want to preserve relevance but from the standpoint of major P5 supporters we don't have it and the only way we could get it is by doubling the budget.

Help me understand that statement. Why would they care about our budget? Is there a tangible benefit or outcome to this that interests them or is it a subjective "we have more $ than you"?

Monkeypox · December 30, 2016

2 minutes ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

You guys seem to want to preserve relevance but from the standpoint of major P5 supporters we don't have it and the only way we could get it is by doubling the budget. All I want is consistent winning and stop playing teams with double or triple the budget, unless we're going to double or triple the budget instead. I don't care who the winning is against. If there was commitment to consistently succeed at 1AA level we'd have been fine there but there was no such commitment.

There hasn't been a comment to consistently succeed at our current level either. We've been bottom of the barrel at most everything for 20 years. I can't get on board with anything that's a move back, though.

I think we actually want to increase relevance. The only thing we'd be preserving now is irrelevance.

Yes, I'd LOVE a scenario where conference champs and a couple of wild cards made it to the playoffs.

But there's no compelling reason for P5 schools to vote for that, beyond, as UNT90 has pointed out, a lawsuit.

In the meantime, try and make the program relevant enough that our opinions matter outside of this particular echo chamber.

untjim1995 · December 30, 2016

Let me be clear--this will happen. There is not a thing that any G5 or FCS school can do about it, either.

No lawsuit will change this.

Matt from A700 · December 30, 2016

Add Houston and Northern Illinois to the Big 12.

UTSA Fan · December 30, 2016

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Let me be clear--this will happen. There is not a thing that any G5 or FCS school can do about it, either.

No lawsuit will change this.

Okay Jim, for the sake of this exercise, let's accept that your statement is correct. What are the options: 1. Get to p5. 2. Get to AAC or MWC 3. Nothing you can do. I am curious to see what you believe is on the table and how it would play out.

Harry · December 30, 2016

5 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

2. Get to AAC

Can we please - and I mean this respectfully - quit the pipe dream of the AAC even being a possibility? SMU will never allow that and they practically run that conference. Not picking on you but I have seen numerous threads mentioning the AAC as an option and as long as SMU is in there it ain't going to happen.

UTSA Fan · December 30, 2016

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Can we please - and I mean this respectfully - quit the pipe dream of the AAC even being a possibility? SMU will never allow that and they practically run that conference. Not picking on you but I have seen numerous threads mentioning the AAC as an option and as long as SMU is in there it ain't going to happen.

Lol! I don't feel picked on. I am curious what Jim thinks the solution is, regardless of plausibility. He made a statement and it is based on a set of assumptions/givens he believes to be true. Based on those, what can, if anything, be done? Maybe SMU kills AAC, travel expenses kills MWC and P5 is out of the question and the outcome is inevitability G5JV. Either way, just trying to pick his brain to possibly learn and expand my understanding.

untjim1995 · December 30, 2016

28 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

Okay Jim, for the sake of this exercise, let's accept that your statement is correct. What are the options: 1. Get to p5. 2. Get to AAC or MWC 3. Nothing you can do. I am curious to see what you believe is on the table and how it would play out.

If you cannot do number 3--for us, it's only the MWC, UTSA has both options available because SMU won't block them--there's only two choices...go down to the next level and play the other G5 teams and top FCS teams in the new setup or go independent and hope and pray that other P5s and those in the AAC/MWC would still play us. I don't see any other path in the decade ahead.

We made this bed a long time ago, when we dropped down on our own and stayed at the 1-aa (FCS) level when the SWC and Big Eight were at their best, killing generations of potential fans and dollars. We moved up in 1995 because the administration was told that we could make more money by whoring ourselves out to big schools for huge paydays--and it happened, just as they thought. And only because Fouts couldn't handle game days without lots of extra generators did we finally get a SGA representative to fight for a vote for a new stadium. And Apogee is wonderful, state of the art...but it doesn't change the fact that we started all of this too late. Even TCU, with its success and money and it's Big XII spot will see that it was fleeting. UH, Boise, BYU, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, UConn, etc...they cannot get in the party. The rest of us cannot even get into the parking lot. That's the plight of a g5 program that shares a market with two schools that sit higher up the food chain than we do. The work we have done in the last decade should have been done 30-40 years earlier--it wasn't, so our bed is pretty well made.

UTSA Fan · December 30, 2016

13 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

If you cannot do number 3--for us, it's only the MWC, UTSA has both options available because SMU won't block them--there's only two choices...go down to the next level and play the other G5 teams and top FCS teams in the new setup or go independent and hope and pray that other P5s and those in the AAC/MWC would still play us. I don't see any other path in the decade ahead.

We made this bed a long time ago, when we dropped down on our own and stayed at the 1-aa (FCS) level when the SWC and Big Eight were at their best, killing generations of potential fans and dollars. We moved up in 1995 because the administration was told that we could make more money by whoring ourselves out to big schools for huge paydays--and it happened, just as they thought. And only because Fouts couldn't handle game days without lots of extra generators did we finally get a SGA representative to fight for a vote for a new stadium. And Apogee is wonderful, state of the art...but it doesn't change the fact that we started all of this too late. Even TCU, with its success and money and it's Big XII spot will see that it was fleeting. UH, Boise, BYU, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, UConn, etc...they cannot get in the party. The rest of us cannot even get into the parking lot. That's the plight of a g5 program that shares a market with two schools that sit higher up the food chain than we do. The work we have done in the last decade should have been done 30-40 years earlier--it wasn't, so our bed is pretty well made.

Ok, we'll it's not #3 then. So the answer would be #2. I feel better about it, at least there are options and it isn't inevitable. Do you think there is an intentional effort in the AD to lay the groundwork for a MWC move? It's interesting that the AAC and MWC seem to be excluded from this dilemma.

Edited December 30, 2016 by UTSA Fan

Got5onIt · December 30, 2016

No to a G5 playoff. It creates a legitimate lower tiered system. We all know we're second fiddle, no need to put it in writing for the P5 bastards...

UNT90 · December 30, 2016

What a class action anti-trust lawsuit would do would force the P5s to look at the very real possibility of having to pay damage all the way back to the court decision involving OU (or up to the statute of limitations, whichever is more recent). That is A LOT of money, folks. And there is a very real possibility that they lose this lawsuit. Sure, there is the possibility that they pack up and leave, but they will still have to pay those damages if they leave. And when they leave, they will be telling everyone that they care more about athletics than education. That may be a little too much for the Dukes and Stanfords of the world to tolerate.

What this lawsuit also does is FORCE the P5s to negotiate. That is where you may see an agreement for a 16 team playoff with all the FBS conference champions invited and revenue shared more fairly.

This is a nightmare scenario for the P5 and one of the reasons they pay so much for whore games. Just trying to give the little guy enough to keep him happy, and most importantly, quiet.

The lawsuit would also hopefully spark a much needed conversation about misplaced priorities when it comes to college athletics.

What is so ironic is seeing the typical rah rah bulsh posters completely in favor of this type of thing. And they gripe about negativity...

Edited December 30, 2016 by UNT90

UNTLifer · December 30, 2016

6 hours ago, UNT90 said:

What a class action anti-trust lawsuit would do would force the P5s to look at the very real possibility of having to pay damage all the way back to the court decision involving OU (or up to the statute of limitations, whichever is more recent). That is A LOT of money, folks. And there is a very real possibility that they lose this lawsuit. Sure, there is the possibility that they pack up and leave, but they will still have to pay those damages if they leave. And when they leave, they will be telling everyone that they care more about athletics than education. That may be a little too much for the Dukes and Stanfords of the world to tolerate.

What this lawsuit also does is FORCE the P5s to negotiate. That is where you may see an agreement for a 16 team playoff with all the FBS conference champions invited and revenue shared more fairly.

This is a nightmare scenario for the P5 and one of the reasons they pay so much for whore games. Just trying to give the little guy enough to keep him happy, and most importantly, quiet.

The lawsuit would also hopefully spark a much needed conversation about misplaced priorities when it comes to college athletics.

Agree with everything above.

Wag Tag · December 30, 2016

Every G5 conf is going to see lower TV payouts when there contracts are up! ESPN TV is not the future! We have seen the success at the FCS level and the P5 level with playoffs! So successful that they will expand P5 playoff system! Money and exposure ( which means money) is in a playoff!

Rudy · December 30, 2016

Even IF the P5 expand the playoff, unless they are forced to, they will never allow a non P5 school to compete. They would rather die than give up the money and allow even a remote chance for a G5 school to compete. There's only a select few P5 teams that even have a shot as it is now.

untjim1995 · December 30, 2016

Here's a question for all of you:

If/when the Power schools move on and if we are relegated to a permanent lower level, but it's with the other MAC, CUSA, SBC, and top FCS schools, will you still support our alma mater's program like you do today? I mean in this likely scenario, it won't be our fault that we aren't allowed to play the power schools anymore. Would a game at home versus La Tech to win CUSA West and earn a playoff bid still get folks to Apogee? I'd believe it still would, even if it's not as a top-tier level college football game.

UTSA Fan · December 30, 2016

3 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Here's a question for all of you:

If/when the Power schools move on and if we are relegated to a permanent lower level, but it's with the other MAC, CUSA, SBC, and top FCS schools, will you still support our alma mater's program like you do today? I mean in this likely scenario, it won't be our fault that we aren't allowed to play the power schools anymore. Would a game at home versus La Tech to win CUSA West and earn a playoff bid still get folks to Apogee? I'd believe it still would, even if it's not as a top-tier level college football game.

No, I would support neither school. I have better things to do with my limited time than watching middle school football.

Rudy · December 30, 2016

3 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

No, I would support neither school. I have better things to do with my limited time than watching middle school football.

Although I can't blame you, that's exactly what the P5 wants. Stop supporting the G5 schools and adopt a P5 school.

Ryan Munthe · December 30, 2016

18 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

If this stupid playoff proposal between the G5 conferences comes to pass I'm for going Independent. Might be a death wish but at least it would separate us from the "soon to be irrelevant have nots" of the G5. Could we better ourselves (status, money) by going Indy while the G5's fight over the crumbs?

We are already irrelevant have nots. G5 is the only division where a player cannot compete for a national title.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

UNT90 · December 30, 2016

9 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

We are already irrelevant have nots. G5 is the only division where a player cannot compete for a national title.

Quick. Who won the D2 title last year?

I would ask who won the FCS, but everyone knows... Because that team has beaten P5 FBS teams 7 straight times...

TheColonyEagle · December 30, 2016

The question we need to ask whenever something like this comes up.....

"Would P5 officials want this to happen"

If the answer is yes, then it's going to be bad for us.

This would be GREAT for the P5 schools. Seperates us even more and gets them closer to a 50-60 team Div 1 football. Which is ultimately what they want.

NO NO NO

UNT90 · December 30, 2016

On December 29, 2016 at 2:07 PM, untjim1995 said:

We aren't dropping to FCS and going down to 65 scholarships. If anything, the FCS schools that are in the top 20 will move up to having 82 scholarships.

This isn't 1982 and we aren't sitting in the middle of the best conference in the country within our own state where cheating ran rampant and the media only cared about them. If we get 15k-20k for a game against G5s today, we will in the years ahead, too...particularly if you regionalize the conferences. We will get good crowds playing teams like Rice, La Tech, UTEP, UTSA, Texas State, etc...

Look, I want UNT playing in the MWC or higher, but I also want to win the lottery. Neither appears to have much chance of occurring. Houston, who is waaayyyyyy higher than us on the college football totem pole, can't get into the power leagues. Neither can UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boise State, etc...the doors are closed and locked up. And the only time it will open again will be to kick out teams when the Big XII falls apart and TCU, Baylor, Iowa State, and possibly K-State, Okie Lite, and Texas Tech are no longer power teams. When that happens, the MWC/AAC/Big XII teams will combine to be the two leagues that can still compete for BCS games and scheduling OOC games against those power schools. Its what the Power Leagues want, administratively, as well as from the big media partners, too.

This is complete hogwash. That isn't going to happen. Plain and simple. Force their hand. So TFLF says he is tired of the G5 laying there and taking it? Then band together and force the P5's hand by filing the lawsuit. Stop being a whore. Have some self-respect. That is the ONLY thing that will get their attention.

If you think they, or the ticket paying public, would give 2 craps about a 2nd tier playoff system, you are smoking crack. If TFLF thinks the P5s are magically going to have their upper division champion play a G5 lower division champion for some TFLF imagined national title, he is smoking crack, mainlining heroin, doing X, and eating shrooms.

AINT

GONNA

HAPPEN