UTA front page

Wag Tag · December 16, 2016

UTA front page of the DMN sports! 20 in RPI!! Wren I am sure you are watching!

greenminer · December 16, 2016

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

UTA front page of the DMN sports! 20 in RPI!! Wren I am sure you are watching!

I thought the Cross ship had sailed?

Wag Tag · December 16, 2016

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

I thought the Cross ship had sailed?

Dam it! I think you are right! No matter what happens this year Wren needs to make a new hire and put his stamp on it. I want to be excited about BB ( was a season tkt holder) like I am about football! Benfired has proven you can recruit talent to UNT. Cross proves you can also win with local talent! GMG

MeanGreenDan · December 16, 2016

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

I thought the Cross ship had sailed?

Years ago. And the ship was driven (into a glacier) by Captain Tony Benford.

UNT90 · December 18, 2016

On December 16, 2016 at 4:32 PM, MeanGreenDan said:

Years ago. And the ship was driven (into a glacier) by Captain Tony Benford.

He was just the first mate. The Captain now gives all his money to Southern Miss.

UNT90 · December 18, 2016

Oh, it has. UTA is a MUCH better job than UNT. If Cross left after this year for a P5 job and UTA and UNT wanted the same coach, that coach would most likely choose to coach UTA. Better failures (their new place puts the pit to shame) more talent in place, and better university support would lead me to believe UTA had a much better chance at leading to a better job than UNT.

Lets look at what UTA has accomplished in the last 5 years while UNT has stubbornly refused to fix an obvious disaster of a coaching hire:

103-69 record over the last 5 plus years.

Opening a great new arena made with basketball as a top priority. A much better atmosphere to watch a basketball game than the outdated Superpit.

Have great support from the City of Arlington.

A successful pipeline to local talent.

THE sport of the university.

All of these factors make UTA a better job than UNT right now, regardless of pay.

GrandGreen · December 19, 2016

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Oh, it has. UTA is a MUCH better job than UNT. If Cross left after this year for a P5 job and UTA and UNT wanted the same coach, that coach would most likely choose to coach UTA. Better failures (their new place puts the pit to shame) more talent in place, and better university support would lead me to believe UTA had a much better chance at leading to a better job than UNT.

Lets look at what UTA has accomplished in the last 5 years while UNT has stubbornly refused to fix an obvious disaster of a coaching hire:

103-69 record over the last 5 plus years.

Opening a great new arena made with basketball as a top priority. A much better atmosphere to watch a basketball game than the outdated Superpit.

Have great support from the City of Arlington.

A successful pipeline to local talent.

THE sport of the university.

All of these factors make UTA a better job than UNT right now, regardless of pay.

Some truths, but with a bunch of baloney. Number one falsehood is that UTA gets great support from Arlington. I have went to many basketball games there and I can assure you that is not true. I don't get the love for the new shiny arena; there is nothing wrong with the Super Pit that a couple thousand fans wouldn't solve. Not sure UTA has a better pipeline to DFW talent, they just do more with the ones they get.

Basketball is the number one sport at UTA, but not sure that particularly helps a program. Most great basketball teams seem to coexist very nicely with a football program.

Comparing a Cross coached winning UTA team and Benford's NT can lead to a lot of bad conclusions.

There is absolutely no doubt that Cross is a good coach and I think he probably has better options than NT if he wants to leave UTA.

If Cross and Benford are both gone after the season, I think NT would not only compete with UTA for any new coach; but would be the most desired job.

Wag Tag · December 19, 2016

37 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Some truths, but with a bunch of baloney. Number one falsehood is that UTA gets great support from Arlington. I have went to many basketball games there and I can assure you that is not true. I don't get the love for the new shiny arena; there is nothing wrong with the Super Pit that a couple thousand fans wouldn't solve. Not sure UTA has a better pipeline to DFW talent, they just do more with the ones they get.

Basketball is the number one sport at UTA, but not sure that particularly helps a program. Most great basketball teams seem to coexist very nicely with a football program.

Comparing a Cross coached winning UTA team and Benford's NT can lead to a lot of bad conclusions.

There is absolutely no doubt that Cross is a good coach and I think he probably has better options than NT if he wants to leave UTA.

If Cross and Benford are both gone after the season, I think NT would not only compete with UTA for any new coach; but would be the most desired job.

You could double Cross's salary and make some facility improvements,and he could stay local! As mantioned we have maybe missed that boat unless not having to relocate could be attractive!

UNT90 · December 19, 2016

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Some truths, but with a bunch of baloney. Number one falsehood is that UTA gets great support from Arlington. I have went to many basketball games there and I can assure you that is not true. I don't get the love for the new shiny arena; there is nothing wrong with the Super Pit that a couple thousand fans wouldn't solve. Not sure UTA has a better pipeline to DFW talent, they just do more with the ones they get.

Basketball is the number one sport at UTA, but not sure that particularly helps a program. Most great basketball teams seem to coexist very nicely with a football program.

Comparing a Cross coached winning UTA team and Benford's NT can lead to a lot of bad conclusions.

There is absolutely no doubt that Cross is a good coach and I think he probably has better options than NT if he wants to leave UTA.

If Cross and Benford are both gone after the season, I think NT would not only compete with UTA for any new coach; but would be the most desired job.

The City of Arlington helped pay for that new arena. I'd call that pretty good support. They also help build a mixed use development around it. This article details the city's long standing partnership with UTA:

http://www.arlington-tx.gov/news/2012/02/02/college-park-center-is-officially-open/

You must be wearing green sunglasses every time you enter the outdated Superpit (which is weird, considering you sometimes need a flashlight to find the exits). College Park Arena is heads and shoulders above what that Pit is. And it should be, considering it was built 4 years ago, not 40.

GMG_Dallas · December 19, 2016

8 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Have great support from the City of Arlington.

THE sport of the university.

I agree with you on lots of topics but disagree with the above.

Support of Arlington because the city helped pay for the arena does not mean the city necessarily supports the basketball program. I'm sure Arlington is able to use the arena as well and Arlington prides themselves on helping fund large structures that help add value to the city as a whole. Sure, it helps the UTA program, but Arlington's goal is to give big event organizers a reason to schedule events in Arlington to drive additional tourism. The city of Arlington would be nothing without it's hotels and restaurants. This is why they fought to hard to bring the cowboys to town and keep the rangers in town and have six flags and hurricane harbor. They want to be the entertainment hub of DFW. Long story short, there are selfish motives.

The sport of the university... Well, it's the only major sport they have that really gets any attention. We can cut football if you want to add additional funds to basketball but I really don't think you would like that...

UNT90 · December 19, 2016

29 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I agree with you on lots of topics but disagree with the above.

Support of Arlington because the city helped pay for the arena does not mean the city necessarily supports the basketball program. I'm sure Arlington is able to use the arena as well and Arlington prides themselves on helping fund large structures that help add value to the city as a whole. Sure, it helps the UTA program, but Arlington's goal is to give big event organizers a reason to schedule events in Arlington to drive additional tourism. The city of Arlington would be nothing without it's hotels and restaurants. This is why they fought to hard to bring the cowboys to town and keep the rangers in town and have six flags and hurricane harbor. They want to be the entertainment hub of DFW. Long story short, there are selfish motives.

The sport of the university... Well, it's the only major sport they have that really gets any attention. We can cut football if you want to add additional funds to basketball but I really don't think you would like that...

Seriously? When was the last time Denton helped UNT build a facility? When is the last time Denton partnered with anything UNT athletics?

Arlington realizes what is good for UTA is good for Arlington. Denton doesn't get this. Never have.

Shocked that anyone chooses this point to argue, as there is clear evidence they are wrong.

Edited December 19, 2016 by UNT90

GMG_Dallas · December 19, 2016

18 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Seriously? When was the last time Denton helped UNT build a facility? When is the last time Denton partnered with anything UNT athletics?

Arlington realizes what is good for UTA is good for Arlington. Denton doesn't get this. Never have.

Shocked that anyone chooses this point to argue, as there is clear evidence they are wrong.

I don't define support the way you do. Helping fund a facility the city benefits from does not mean it gives a crap about the basketball program itself which is what this about. I'm not saying denton supports UNT basketball so I don't know why you even brought that up. You're acting like the city of Arlington just loves UTA and supports them like one would support their child when in reality they're just doing what makes the most business sense. Rick V wanted apogee to be privately funded. I'm sure if UNT had asked for city funding they would have worked something out.

GrandGreen · December 19, 2016

37 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Seriously? When was the last time Denton helped UNT build a facility? When is the last time Denton partnered with anything UNT athletics?

Arlington realizes what is good for UTA is good for Arlington. Denton doesn't get this. Never have.

Shocked that anyone chooses this point to argue, as there is clear evidence they are wrong.

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

The City of Arlington helped pay for that new arena. I'd call that pretty good support. They also help build a mixed use development around it. This article details the city's long standing partnership with UTA:

http://www.arlington-tx.gov/news/2012/02/02/college-park-center-is-officially-open/

You must be wearing green sunglasses every time you enter the outdated Superpit (which is weird, considering you sometimes need a flashlight to find the exits). College Park Arena is heads and shoulders above what that Pit is. And it should be, considering it was built 4 years ago, not 40.

Not sure where you are getting that Arlington helped pay for UTA's area. Below is the BOR approved funding for the area. It's basic funding is from a $2 per semester hour fee from the students. The City did and is trying to revive the old central business district abutting UTA.

FUNDING

The approximately $73 million facility will be paid for with $35 million from area university funds, $10 million from private donations and $28 million in revenue bonds from the UT System Office of Finance.

Spaniolo said the university would be working on achieving the donations but don’t have any now.

“We have a number of people who we want to talk with,” he said.

The “local university funds” is unspent money the university has left over.

At the end of 2004, Student Congress passed a resolution setting up a fee for “operating expenses for the center,” but they will not be used until the completion of the building.

However, I was actually referring to the lack of attendance support from Arlington. The average attendance for men basketball since the opening of the Center is about 2,000. That is for a pretty good team in a brand new arena.

MeanGreen_MBA · December 19, 2016

12 hours ago, UNT90 said:

The City of Arlington helped pay for that new arena. I'd call that pretty good support. They also help build a mixed use development around it. This article details the city's long standing partnership with UTA:

http://www.arlington-tx.gov/news/2012/02/02/college-park-center-is-officially-open/

You must be wearing green sunglasses every time you enter the outdated Superpit (which is weird, considering you sometimes need a flashlight to find the exits). College Park Arena is heads and shoulders above what that Pit is. And it should be, considering it was built 4 years ago, not 40.

You can get Arlington to build you a house if you promise a bunch of new mixed development will come with it......

10 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I don't define support the way you do. Helping fund a facility the city benefits from does not mean it gives a crap about the basketball program itself which is what this about. I'm not saying denton supports UNT basketball so I don't know why you even brought that up. You're acting like the city of Arlington just loves UTA and supports them like one would support their child when in reality they're just doing what makes the most business sense. Rick V wanted apogee to be privately funded. I'm sure if UNT had asked for city funding they would have worked something out.

The City of Arlington brought in a WNBA team to play at the new facility. I have been there, and it is a nice place to watch basketball....but has many other options. High School graduations to think of. Plus, the old facility was a dangerous place to paly...IMHO

untjim1995 · December 19, 2016

16 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I don't define support the way you do. Helping fund a facility the city benefits from does not mean it gives a crap about the basketball program itself which is what this about. I'm not saying denton supports UNT basketball so I don't know why you even brought that up. You're acting like the city of Arlington just loves UTA and supports them like one would support their child when in reality they're just doing what makes the most business sense. Rick V wanted apogee to be privately funded. I'm sure if UNT had asked for city funding they would have worked something out.

No offense, but there is zero chance this would ever happen. Denton doesn't like UNT Athletics anywhere near enough to pay for a venue...

UNTFan23 · December 19, 2016

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

No offense, but there is zero chance this would ever happen. Denton doesn't like UNT Athletics anywhere near enough to pay for a venue...

The City didn't even want to help pitch in for a convention center space.

Army of Dad · December 20, 2016

16 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

The City didn't even want to help pitch in for a convention center space.

They are way too busy deciding what people may do in their cars to bother with such weighty issues.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Army of Dad

GMG_Dallas · December 20, 2016

15 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

No offense, but there is zero chance this would ever happen. Denton doesn't like UNT Athletics anywhere near enough to pay for a venue...

No offense taken. Don't really know why that would offensive anyways. Y'all have been around UNT much longer than me so I trust you know what you're talking about. If that is true, then I can only retract my statement that about UTA and Arlington. It would seem obvious to me that a city do anything possible to better its major university. I mean, other than UNT, peterbuilt, and TWU, Denton doesn't really have much. You would think they would strive to have a strong partnership but I guess not... That's sad. I know we expect a lot of Baker, but is this something you think he can help fix? What can university officials do to strengthen this relationship?

Edited December 20, 2016 by GMG_Dallas

UNT90 · December 20, 2016

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

No offense taken. Don't really know why that would offensive anyways. Y'all have been around UNT much longer than me so I trust you know what you're talking about. If that is true, then I can only retract my statement that about UTA and Arlington. It would seem obvious to me that a city do anything possible to better its major university. I mean, other than UNT, peterbuilt, and TWU, Denton doesn't really have much. You would think they would strive to have a strong partnership but I guess not... That's sad. I know we expect a lot of Baker, but is this something you think he can help fix? What can university officials do to strengthen this relationship?

You would think. But historically it hasn't been the case. At all.

It takes 2 to tango. Wren can try to change it all he wants, but if the City Manager and the Counsel aren't on board, it ain't happening.

Could you imagine the city and UNT joining forces to build a $160 million development that included a basketball arena surrounded by a mixed use development with restaurants, bars, and apartments/condos? Neither could I.

And could you imagine the hell the residents of Denia would raise if that development was placed within 5 miles of their community? Lol.

Edited December 20, 2016 by UNT90

GrandGreen · December 20, 2016

53 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

You would think. But historically it hasn't been the case. At all.

It takes 2 to tango. Wren can try to change it all he wants, but if the City Manager and the Counsel aren't on board, it ain't happening.

Could you imagine the city and UNT joining forces to build a $160 million development that included a basketball arena surrounded by a mixed use development with restaurants, bars, and apartments/condos? Neither could I.

And could you imagine the hell the residents of Denia would raise if that development was placed within 5 miles of their community? Lol.

Again, the city of Arlington as far as I know contributed nothing but verbal support for the building of UTA's basketball center. The development that you are claiming as a benefit to UTA is more akin to Denton's development of the square or Fry street area. An adjacent neighborhood that may benefit NT, but the city's motive is primarily on the development of the City not the university.

I am not defending the City of Denton at all. I think historically their support of Denton's universities has been severely lacking. Overall Arlington is a City three times the size of Denton, and has a history of spending their citizen tax money on pro sports teams. All based on the premise of economic development. There is absolutely no doubt that Arlington is much more aggressively managed than not only Denton but almost any city. Denton would be at the other end of that spectrum.

Now this thread as morphed into which city supports their college better from your original assertion that the UTA basketball job is a lot more attractive than NT's. The support of the cities involved IMO have little to do with the original debate other than how much they contribute to the fan base. Much more pertinent factors include facilities, conference and probably most important pay and budget.

UNT90 · December 20, 2016

9 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Again, the city of Arlington as far as I know contributed nothing but verbal support for the building of UTA's basketball center. The development that you are claiming as a benefit to UTA is more akin to Denton's development of the square or Fry street area. An adjacent neighborhood that may benefit NT, but the city's motive is primarily on the development of the City not the university.

I am not defending the City of Denton at all. I think historically their support of Denton's universities has been severely lacking. Overall Arlington is a City three times the size of Denton, and has a history of spending their citizen tax money on pro sports teams. All based on the premise of economic development. There is absolutely no doubt that Arlington is much more aggressively managed than not only Denton but almost any city. Denton would be at the other end of that spectrum.

Now this thread as morphed into which city supports their college better from your original assertion that the UTA basketball job is a lot more attractive than NT's. The support of the cities involved IMO have little to do with the original debate other than how much they contribute to the fan base. Much more pertinent factors include facilities, conference and probably most important pay and budget.

Not true, they paid for a parking garage facility, drew investors in to complete the moxed use development:

"Improvements to Center Street and Interstate 30 made downtown and the college area more accessible. The 3½-year-old Levitt Pavilion for the Performing Arts near City Hall drew nearly 99,000 to its outdoor free concerts in 2011. Also, the city pumped millions into new sidewalks, beautification and financial incentives for businesses as well as up to $18 million toward College Park parking garages."

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2012/01/24/uta-growth-and-downtown-arlington-redevelopment-in-lock-step

When is the last time the City of Denton put $18 million toward anything UNT?

UNTFan23 · December 20, 2016

That $18 million is but a drop in the bucket for what Arlington is trying to do with the revitalization of its downtown area. It seems to be working if they are getting all sorts of businesses to open in that area. UTA is just a benefactor in what the City of Arlington is trying to accomplish.

Denton has bigger problems to worry about though with its roads being some of the worst in DFW.

UNT90 · December 20, 2016

2 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

That $18 million is but a drop in the bucket for what Arlington is trying to do with the revitalization of its downtown area. It seems to be working if they are getting all sorts of businesses to open in that area. UTA is just a benefactor in what the City of Arlington is trying to accomplish.

Denton has bigger problems to worry about though with its roads being some of the worst in DFW.

Ah, the old "fix the pot holes" argument.

Are you 80? ?

UNTFan23 · December 20, 2016

Have you driven on many of the roads in Denton? Better yet, have you seen all the road projects currently going on in Denton? US380/University has been under construction for the better part of, I believe, two years. They have been reworking Eagle Drive this past year as well to the tune of $1.8 million. 377 and Teasley Lane are set to be widened. Bonnie Brae has been planned to be expanded for years now but hasn't happened yet. Some of these are state funded projects (380/University) but most are from City funding sources (Bonds, etc).

IMO, the City of Denton has never been well run and far as I can tell, never will be. Don't expect anything progressive like what Arlington has been doing.

UNT90 · December 20, 2016

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

Have you driven on many of the roads in Denton? Better yet, have you seen all the road projects currently going on in Denton? US380/University has been under construction for the better part of, I believe, two years. They have been reworking Eagle Drive this past year as well to the tune of $1.8 million. 377 and Teasley Lane are set to be widened. Bonnie Brae has been planned to be expanded for years now but hasn't happened yet. Some of these are state funded projects (380/University) but most are from City funding sources (Bonds, etc).

IMO, the City of Denton has never been well run and far as I can tell, never will be. Don't expect anything progressive like what Arlington has been doing.

You know what is used to fund new roads? Tax dollars. You know what generates revenue besides property tax? Sales tax. You know what you need to do to generate sales tax revenue? Make people want to spend money in your city. It took Arlington a looooong time to learn this lesson, but they are following the Fort Worth plan now, and it's paying dividends.

There is a reason Denton has crappy roads...

Edited December 20, 2016 by UNT90