MGB: Recruiting state of the union -- it's too early to panic

BillySee58 · December 14, 2016

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What is crazy is Mahomes was the 3rd string QB for Tech behind Webb and Mayfield...

Not true. Mayfield was gone before Mahomes got there.

Ben Gooding · December 14, 2016

4 hours ago, Caw Caw said:

You want to talk good coaches who value recruiting how about Nick Saben. Here are a few excerpts from a sports illustrated article about his recruiting. Not his development, not his coaching. Alabama doesn't run crazy complex schemes. Nick Saban's empire is built on the back of great recruiting classes and beating you man-to-man for all 11 positions. To quote the man himself: “I’m nothing without my players." He told the AD at 'Bama when he was hired that no one would out recruit him. He utilizes 60+ staff members to achieve this goal. Yes some coaches can do more with less, or find guys who excel in a system. But if it was all about talent development why is there a direct connection in consecutive #1 recruiting classes and national championships?

“In the NFL, you only get one first-round draft pick, and that’s if it hadn’t already been traded away,” Saban once told me. “In college, I could recruit ten players with first-round talent every year.”

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Though Saban has learned something about talent evaluation at each of the 13 stops in his coaching career, much of his gift for recognizing good players is innate. “He’s like someone who can identify a thoroughbred racing horse at a young age,” says Glen Mason, Saban’s fellow assistant coach at Ohio State in the early 1980s. “He can just look at a high school player and say, ‘That guy is a winner.’ ”

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In 1984, when he was the defensive coordinator at Michigan State, Saban skipped his mother-in-law’s Christmas Eve party to hang out with the grandmother of a highly touted wideout named Andre Rison. Saban drank beer with her until 3 a.m. While he didn’t earn any points from his family, Saban did land Rison, who excelled for the Spartans and, later, for the Atlanta Falcons in the NFL.

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Saban does all he can to learn absolutely everything about a recruit. “He’s out there prodding the aunt, the uncle, the mom, the coaches, the kid himself,” says Dallas Cowboys wide receivers coach Derek Dooley, who was Saban’s recruiting coordinator in Baton Rouge. Saban has secretaries who keep him updated on each individual recruit, who have been known to drill down to such granular details as a recruit’s most recent score on an English test. Gary Tranquill, Saban’s offensive coordinator at Michigan State, says that Saban was so prepared for some recruiting interviews that “he literally knew what brand of chewing gum that kid preferred.”

Saban was so aggressive on the recruiting trail that, in 2008, his peers had finally had enough. That’s when they successfully lobbied the NCAA to stop recruiting in the spring—when coaches were allowed to go on the road and evaluate talent—something at which Saban excelled. The new bylaw was dubbed the “Saban Rule,” which outraged its namesake.

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“The other coaches sometimes come off as used-car salesmen and Baptist ministers—he’s not like that,” says a former Crimson Tide offensive coach. “A lot of these parents aren’t making a lot of money, and they see this guy come in, just off the plane, wearing a suit, a guy with a plan. They don’t see many people like that. What they saw in him was a man who was blunt, straightforward and successful.”

Alabama's staff spends more hours than any other team in the country and more money on RECRUITING. We obviously don't have those luxuries but we aren't asking for hte same result yet either. Kids can outkick their projected coverage, and that comes down to spotting/evaluating talent for specific roles on your team. BUT, that's not what we want to rely on, because it's way less likely than recruiting success to translate.

Full link: http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/09/10/how-alabamas-nick-saban-so-successful-recruiting-trail

I was the first to like this post and it was posted 4 hours ago. Folks round here just don't wanna hear what is. Just wanna hear what their perceived reality is.

Good read by the way.

4 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

I don't really want to wait or ignore recruiting failures like we did with Mac. He was also 5-7 in his first year.

So far, we're looking at another class in the bottom half of CUSA. Sure, it could change, but we're never going to be any better than we have been unless we start recruiting better. That's a fact. Sure, we had another good recruiting class that took us to a single bowl game. And then we returned to the laughing-stock that we've been.

Never have I seen a fanbase so excited that we've had a couple of recruiting classes in 20+years outperform their ranking. You can't discount the 80% of the time we've been irrelevant in order to say our "strategy" is successful.

For 20 years, people on this board have excused our recruiting performance by explaining how star ratings are made up and they don't matter and Drew Brees blah blah blah...

And we've sucked consistently for that time. Meanwhile, the teams that consistently recruit better than us win more than us. It's almost like these things are related.

Great post. I'm tired of the poor recruiting, followed by the fan and administrative excuses. followed by the losing, followed by more poor recruiting.

What do we as a fan base have to do to get recruiting turned around?!?! Donate money, sure. But would my donation be directed straight to recruiting at all, and if so in an effective manner. Doubtful. Can we frisbee in 10-12-14-20 designer Mean Green cakes into the AD when a handful of recruits are on hand? Help with personalized Mean Green letters? I mean, what?

GrandGreen · December 14, 2016

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Once he got his feet wet, he was pretty darn good given the resources he had at the time. He had ZERO facilities, a bad conference and a shoestring budget. His best recruiting assistants were lured away because we wouldn't even try to match what they were offered. It was like a revolving door. At his peak, and during the bowl run, he had positioned us to get the very best juco transfers in the conference. He could sell them on the fact we were the only team that would take them to a bowl. I know that for a fact. What we wouldn't give to be in that position now. Hopefully Seth will get us there.

No doubt, the resources were horribly lacking; but advertising that fact doesn't denote a good recruiter to me. Every staff is consistently raided and the lower the program is on the totem pole the more it happens. I don't get your Juco reference, his hit and miss ratio was pretty bad. Everyone cites the few good impact jucos he signed starting with Pruitt and Daniels, but ignore the long list of players that never contributed.

Again, he prospered primary based on that 2001 class which led to the bowls and helped recruiting to some extent as long as that group played.

However, Dickey did recruit that one excellent class and that is far more than any of his successors have done with a lot more resources.

Harry · December 14, 2016

That was a great article about Saban @Caw Caw

Cr1028 · December 14, 2016

3 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What is crazy is Mahomes was the 3rd string QB for Tech behind Webb and Mayfield...

That is not correct. Mahomes was never behind Mayfield. Mayfield was already in Norman when Mahomes showed up at Tech. He was backup to Davis Webb his true freshman season until Webb got hurt and Mahomes took over. He started the final 3 games that season and has been the starter ever since. That is why Webb transferred to Cal. Mayfield transferred out because he didn't want to compete with Brewer and Webb. He only started at Tech because Brewer was injured and Webb was coming off an illness. Brewer left for the Hokies because he couldn't earn the job back from Davis Webb.

So Pat Mahomes is better than the starting quarterbacks at OU and Cal and last year's starter at Virginia Texh.

Sometimes I feel like I live on a different planet than some of you. On my planet, we don't play in the SEC and pay our head coach less than 20% of what the top coaches are getting.

You think we just need to try harder? Does that mean the other schools are going to stop trying and let us catch up? Hell no.

You really want to know how to get the big offer sheet recruits? Call Sherwood Blount.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Cr1028

Cr1028 · December 14, 2016

6 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

Well, let's see:

UNT vs Charlie Strong: 0-1, 38-7

UNT vs Les Miles: 0-3, 56-3, 41-3, 41-14

I don't think there's anything for us to say to them. Probably has nothing to do with the talent levels at LSU or UT for those game, which are, of course, completely divorced from recruiting rankings, which are meaningless according to people on this board.

Charlie's superior talent couldn't beat his peers and he got fired. Despite what some of you think, we are not yet a peer of the University of Texas.

UNTLifer · December 14, 2016

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Not true. Mayfield was gone before Mahomes got there.

Speaking of Mayfield. Just look at that offer list for the two time Heisman Trophy finalist who ended up being a walk-on.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/144244/baker-mayfield

Younreally want to grade a class? Look at them 4 to 5 years later and see how they produced. The almighty Hayden Fry once signed the #1 recruit in Texas. Do a little research and see how that turned out 4 years later. Point being, there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum.

Edited December 14, 2016 by UNTLifer

Monkeypox · December 14, 2016

25 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Charlie's superior talent couldn't beat his peers and he got fired. Despite what some of you think, we are not yet a peer of the University of Texas.

What makes us not their peer? We've already ruled out recruiting, so it's clearly not that they have a huge talent advantage over us.

Know who else out-recruits us? UTSA... they're 3-1 vs us. I wonder what the difference is. Must be their big, bad program and facilities and history of success.

43 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Sometimes I feel like I live on a different planet than some of you. On my planet, we don't play in the SEC and pay our head coach less than 20% of what the top coaches are getting.

People on here are concerned that we get out-recruited by Sun Belt and CUSA schools. You're the one who wants to bring up Big 12 and SEC schools for your straw man.

BTG_Fan1 · December 14, 2016

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Not true. Mayfield was gone before Mahomes got there.

My bad, I must have heard wrong during the OU/TT game

54 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

That is not correct. Mahomes was never behind Mayfield. Mayfield was already in Norman when Mahomes showed up at Tech. He was backup to Davis Webb his true freshman season until Webb got hurt and Mahomes took over. He started the final 3 games that season and has been the starter ever since. That is why Webb transferred to Cal. Mayfield transferred out because he didn't want to compete with Brewer and Webb. He only started at Tech because Brewer was injured and Webb was coming off an illness. Brewer left for the Hokies because he couldn't earn the job back from Davis Webb.

So Pat Mahomes is better than the starting quarterbacks at OU and Cal and last year's starter at Virginia Texh.

Ben Gooding · December 14, 2016

8 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Speaking of Mayfield. Just look at that offer list for the two time Heisman Trophy finalist who ended up being a walk-on.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/144244/baker-mayfield

Younreally want to grade a class? Look at them 4 to 5 years later and see how they produced. The almighty Hayden Fry once signed the #1 recruit in Texas. Do a little research and see how that turned out 4 years later. Point being, there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum.

Mayfield was initially a PWO. He is an extreme outlier.

Civilly, the highlighted portion of your post is bullshit. Higher rated classes produce more than lower rated classes. Success on the field goes in direct correlation with success in recruiting. The wait 5 years to judge a class is grossly mistated around here. It's that way because we've sucked the male reproductive organ for years in that area and beaten down UNT fans don't know what else to say except for your highlighted bullshit above.

BillySee58 · December 14, 2016

8 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Speaking of Mayfield. Just look at that offer list for the two time Heisman Trophy finalist who ended up being a walk-on.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/144244/baker-mayfield

Younreally want to grade a class? Look at them 4 to 5 years later and see how they produced. The almighty Hayden Fry once signed the #1 recruit in Texas. Do a little research and see how that turned out 4 years later. Point being, there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum.

There are always going to be outliers. It's a numbers game. For every Mayfield there are literally thousands of players with 2 or 3 G5 offers who never sniff the heisman ceremony.

Bobby Petrino at Louisville signed a QB with offers from Florida, Florida State, Auburn, Georgia, Miami (FL), Clemson, Ohio State, etc. How'd that turn out for him? He won the Heisman in 2016.

Nick Saban at Alabama signed a guy with offers from Florida, Florida State, Miami (FL), Clemson, Notre Dame, Tennessee, USC, as part of his third straight number 1 class in 2013. How'd that work out for him? Henry won the 2015 Heisman and Saban won the National Championship that year and probably the next year.

You can bring up guys who beat the odds and I can bring up guys who were top flight recruits and ended up ruling college football like Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Reggie Bush, Jameis Winston, Trent Richardson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Ezekiel Elliott, etc.

It's a numbers game. Many, many studies have been doing showing how a much higher percentage of five stars get drafted/are successful in college than four stars, four stars get drafted/are successful than three stars, on down the line.

Again, for us, our recruits don't get fair evaluations. They typically watch a few minutes of film, slap a rating on our guys, and never revisit them if they don't add any P5 offers or offers of schools that have paying subscribers and sub sites through their recruiting website. Unless of course they rated our guys too high and they only commit to us over G5 offers. Then they go back and lower their rating to match more consistently with our recruits (247 dropping Ivery from an 87 to a 79 and rivals dropping Cameron Johnson from almost a 4-star at 5.7 down to the lowest 3-star rating of 5.5). Which is why offers are a more fair evaluation given our situation with no paid subscribers to any of the major recruiting sites.

I have also said I'm okay with two guys a class have no other offers, and another four or so having two or less other FBS offers. That gives our coaches a chance to find one of these guys. And with QBs, small skill players, and defensive backs, their offer lists matter the least because small QBs often have not many offers but can fit a system well, and skill players like Chancellor/Harris get looked over because they're small but that doesn't matter much in their job description. DBs for similar reasons.

But if we're signing classes like WKU has been signing with the offer lists their recruits had, that gives us a much better chance of being good than signing a class like Mccarney's 2012 class where over half the class didn't have but maybe one other FBS offer.

UNTLifer · December 14, 2016

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Mayfield was initially a PWO. He is an extreme outlier.

Civilly, the highlighted portion of your post is bullshit.Higher rated classes produce more than lower rated classes. Success on the field goes in direct correlation with success in recruiting. The wait 5 years to judge a class is grossly mistated around here. It's that way because we've sucked the male reproductive organ for years in that area and beaten down UNT fans don't know what else to say except for your highlighted bullshit above.

Thanks for being civil.

Speaking of my post above, I understand Mayfield was an outlier. I was just making the point that there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum, that is all. Just as BillySee noted above with his list of 5 star players that we will likely never sniff, and I am alright with that. As Billy also stated, many of our players don't get fairly evaluated by these services. Being how our classes have been, waiting a couple of years to see how they develop is only reasonable. Again, just speaking of our classes historically. Nobody would have ever guessed that Johnny Quinn, Patrick Cobbs, Chris Hurd, Laramie Lee, Scott Hall, etc... would have developed and produced the level of success they did when they were first recruited.

Edited December 14, 2016 by UNTLifer

Ben Gooding · December 14, 2016

Just now, UNTLifer said:

Thanks for being civil.

You're most certainly welcome.

My curse words that may or may not have hurt your tenderized feelings were not directed at your character or at even directly at you. It was just my lingo, or how I talk if you will. I even stopped short of saying we've sucked dick in that area.

UNTLifer · December 14, 2016

8 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

You're most certainly welcome.

My curse words that may or may not have hurt your tenderized feelings were not directed at your character or at even directly at you. It was just my lingo, or how I talk if you will. I even stopped short of saying we've sucked dick in that area.

My skin is a lot thicker than you can imagine, but I find it quite funny that you start off your comment with the term "civilly" and shortly thereafter can't think of anything better to use than the word bullshit, etc... You should be proud of your command of the English language and the vast development of your vocabulary. If you would have read the last sentence of my original post you would have noticed that has stated there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum. I was just sighting an example, but if your reading comprehension equals your vocabulary, I can see where that might be lost on you. Carry on.

Edited December 14, 2016 by UNTLifer

Cr1028 · December 14, 2016

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

There are always going to be outliers. It's a numbers game. For every Mayfield there are literally thousands of players with 2 or 3 G5 offers who never sniff the heisman ceremony.

Bobby Petrino at Louisville signed a QB with offers from Florida, Florida State, Auburn, Georgia, Miami (FL), Clemson, Ohio State, etc. How'd that turn out for him? He won the Heisman in 2016.

Nick Saban at Alabama signed a guy with offers from Florida, Florida State, Miami (FL), Clemson, Notre Dame, Tennessee, USC, as part of his third straight number 1 class in 2013. How'd that work out for him? Henry won the 2015 Heisman and Saban won the National Championship that year and probably the next year.

You can bring up guys who beat the odds and I can bring up guys who were top flight recruits and ended up ruling college football like Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Reggie Bush, Jameis Winston, Trent Richardson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Ezekiel Elliott, etc.

It's a numbers game. Many, many studies have been doing showing how a much higher percentage of five stars get drafted/are successful in college than four stars, four stars get drafted/are successful than three stars, on down the line.

Art Briles at Baylor signed a QB with offers from UH, Kansas, Nebraska, and Tennessee. How'd that turn out? He won the heisman.

While you are right about the percentages and outliers, they work both ways. For every Jadeveon Clowney, you get a Bryce Brown.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Cr1028

Army of Dad · December 14, 2016

19 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Art Briles at Baylor signed a QB with offers from UH, Kansas, Nebraska, and Tennessee. How'd that turn out? He won the heisman.

While you are right about the percentages and outliers, they work both ways. For every Jadeveon Clowney, you get a Bryce Brown.

So this QB you are talking about had four P5 offers and he turned out to be pretty good. ?

BillySee58 · December 14, 2016

31 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Art Briles at Baylor signed a QB with offers from UH, Kansas, Nebraska, and Tennessee. How'd that turn out? He won the heisman.

While you are right about the percentages and outliers, they work both ways. For every Jadeveon Clowney, you get a Bryce Brown.

Yes! They do! But I don't know why it is so hard for so many on this board to fail to grasp the point that recruits with higher ratings/better offer lists pan out at a HIGHER RATE than those with less stars/less offers. It's a proven fact.

Also, not sure how a 4-star QB with offers from those schools you mentioned is an example that you don't have to be highly rated/recruited to succeed, or if that's what you were getting at.

And you bring up a great point with former NFL running back Bryce Brown. He ran a 4.38 40-yard dash at 6' 220 lbs. He made it to the NFL with two years of very little college production. Were the scouts and college coaches wrong about him because he didn't live up to his expectations? No. He earned 5-stars because of his athletic ability. Star ratings don't account for whether or not he can handle the rigors and expectations of a college and pro athlete. They account for his ability, of which he had freakish amounts.

Edited December 14, 2016 by BillySee58

Ben Gooding · December 14, 2016

44 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

My skin is a lot thicker than you can imagine, but I find it quite funny that you start off your comment with the term "civilly" and shortly thereafter can't think of anything better to use than the word bullshit, etc... You should be proud of your command of the English language and the vast development of your vocabulary. If you would have read the last sentence of my original post you would have noticed that has stated there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum. I was just sighting an example, but if your reading comprehension equals your vocabulary, I can see where that might be lost on you. Carry on.

This is being uncivil.

You were being an apologist for what looks like to be an underwhelming class and potentially failing class by bringing up crazy outliers. Exceptions don't lay on both ends of this spectrum. One end are exceptions or outliers and the other end, the end that Billy was talking about, is the rule or the norm. Good classes bring results. Below average classes (even with 1 or 2 outliers) bring below average results. That is fact. Argue with it if you want, but it is not changing.

Oh, and there is no other word that get's a point across better than simply calling it bullshit. That's why I use it.

UNTLifer · December 14, 2016

4 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

This is being uncivil.

You were being an apologist for what looks like to be an underwhelming class and potentially failing class by bringing up crazy outliers. Exceptions don't lay on both ends of this spectrum. One end are exceptions or outliers and the other end, the end that Billy was talking about, is the rule or the norm. Good classes bring results. Below average classes (even with 1 or 2 outliers) bring below average results. That is fact. Argue with it if you want, but it is not changing.

Oh, and there is no other word that get's a point across better than simply calling it bullshit. That's why I use it.

An apologist? I haven't made a comment about this class other than to say I will wait until signing day to pass judgement. All I noted was that their are hits and misses on both ends of the spectrum.

Cr1028 · December 14, 2016

24 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

So this QB you are talking about had four P5 offers and he turned out to be pretty good. ?

No, this QB had one P5 offer. As a DB he had 3 P5 offers.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · December 14, 2016

13 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

No doubt, the resources were horribly lacking; but advertising that fact doesn't denote a good recruiter to me. Every staff is consistently raided and the lower the program is on the totem pole the more it happens. I don't get your Juco reference, his hit and miss ratio was pretty bad. Everyone cites the few good impact jucos he signed starting with Pruitt and Daniels, but ignore the long list of players that never contributed.

Again, he prospered primary based on that 2001 class which led to the bowls and helped recruiting to some extent as long as that group played.

However, Dickey did recruit that one excellent class and that is far more than any of his successors have done with a lot more resources.

Dickey was an excellent recruiter.

Cr1028 · December 14, 2016

16 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Yes! They do! But I don't know why it is so hard for so many on this board to fail to grasp the point that recruits with higher ratings/better offer lists pan out at a HIGHER RATE than those with less stars/less offers. It's a proven fact.

Also, not sure how a 4-star QB with offers from those schools you mentioned is an example that you don't have to be highly rated/recruited to succeed, or if that's what you were getting at.

And you bring up a great point with former NFL running back Bryce Brown. He ran a 4.38 40-yard dash at 6' 220 lbs. He made it to the NFL with two years of very little college production. Were the scouts and college coaches wrong about him because he didn't live up to his expectations? No. He earned 5-stars because of his athletic ability. Star ratings don't account for whether or not he can handle the rigors and expectations of a college and pro athlete. They account for his ability, of which he had freakish amounts.

All good points. The point I've been trying to make is that several of us on this board are acting as if our coaching staff is not out there recruiting. You can bet your bottom dollar they are out there busting their ass each and every day to get better talent in this place. We aren't talking about a staff full of retreads here. This is a staff built of under-40s who aspire to something greater than North Texas. I accept that and understand that they must produce in order to use us as a stepping stone. Failure here will set their careers back at least half a decade. They aren't going to sit there and coast. If we can pull out another win against Army, I fully expect for many on here to be pleasantly surprised.

I get how better recruiting classes typically lead to more victories. I also understand that more victories typically lead to better recruiting classes.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters to me personally about this staff, is their Win/Loss record. I don't care if we have the best or worst in conference recruiting class as long as we win the conference. Yes, I do understand that better classes give a high probability of winning conference.

keith · December 14, 2016

50 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Yes! They do! But I don't know why it is so hard for so many on this board to fail to grasp the point that recruits with higher ratings/better offer lists pan out at a HIGHER RATE than those with less stars/less offers. It's a proven fact.

Actually, I suspect that most here (maybe all) understand that a high rated recruiting class is, everything else being equal, better than a lower rated recruiting class. I don't think that's the point. We'd all love to see a recruiting class full of 4-star and 3-star recruits (maybe even throw in an occasional 5-star). Our classes are usually filled with 2-star (or unrated) recruits with a light sprinkling of 3-star recruits. It's been that way for 30+ years through multiple coaching staffs. The question is why?

Army of Dad · December 14, 2016

35 minutes ago, keith said:

Actually, I suspect that most here (maybe all) understand that a high rated recruiting class is, everything else being equal, better than a lower rated recruiting class. I don't think that's the point. We'd all love to see a recruiting class full of 4-star and 3-star recruits (maybe even throw in an occasional 5-star). Our classes are usually filled with 2-star (or unrated) recruits with a light sprinkling of 3-star recruits. It's been that way for 30+ years through multiple coaching staffs. The question is why?

I don't know, there's usually a fair amount of 'stars/ratings don't really matter' posts after signing day...

UNT90 · December 14, 2016

18 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Speaking of Mayfield. Just look at that offer list for the two time Heisman Trophy finalist who ended up being a walk-on.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/144244/baker-mayfield

Younreally want to grade a class? Look at them 4 to 5 years later and see how they produced. The almighty Hayden Fry once signed the #1 recruit in Texas. Do a little research and see how that turned out 4 years later. Point being, there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum.

No doubt. And there is a reason they are called exceptions. Because they are an extremely small percentage of the overall recruiting pool on both ends of the spectrum.

Exception- a person or thing that is excluded from a general statement or does not follow a rule; a case to which a rule does not apply.

Counting on Littrell to find 15 exceptions every recruiting class is a fools errand. If recruiting doesn't pick up, UNT won't win. Plain and simple.

6 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

All good points. The point I've been trying to make is that several of us on this board are acting as if our coaching staff is not out there recruiting. You can bet your bottom dollar they are out there busting their ass each and every day to get better talent in this place. We aren't talking about a staff full of retreads here. This is a staff built of under-40s who aspire to something greater than North Texas. I accept that and understand that they must produce in order to use us as a stepping stone. Failure here will set their careers back at least half a decade. They aren't going to sit there and coast. If we can pull out another win against Army, I fully expect for many on here to be pleasantly surprised.

I get how better recruiting classes typically lead to more victories. I also understand that more victories typically lead to better recruiting classes.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters to me personally about this staff, is their Win/Loss record. I don't care if we have the best or worst in conference recruiting class as long as we win the conference. Yes, I do understand that better classes give a high probability of winning conference.

It doesn't matter whether they bust their ass 25 hours a day or not if they aren't winning recruiting battles. I'm not ok with the "well, they gave it the good ole college try." Problem is too many UNT fans have been perfectly fine with this. That's why this thing has sucked forever.

I don't care if you work 5 hours a day as long as you are bringing talent into this program. I'd take that guy over a guy that worked his ass off but produced nothing. Every day of the week I'd take the 5 hour guy.

No one is saying they aren't working, the fear is how they are working isn't working.

Edited December 14, 2016 by UNT90