Dead Period

Ben Gooding · December 8, 2016

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

We saw 4 years of Mc recruiting and we have seen 3-4 months of Seths. Only someone with a preconceived opinion can make a comparison of the 2 being comparable. Oh and he will be let go in a few years? Get a life!

We have had far more than 3-4 months of Seth Littrell and his staff recruiting. You must be kidding, right? He had 3 months in his first cycle, alone. UNT90 is right, if he does not start recruiting better, he will not be here to start 2019 and it won't be because he was hired away. Littrell was not Wren's hire and he will have no problem cutting ties if this thing doesn't get going. Wren Baker is not #ThanksRV.

UNT90 · December 8, 2016

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

We saw 4 years of Mc recruiting and we have seen 3-4 months of Seths. Only someone with a preconceived opinion can make a comparison of the 2 being comparable. Oh and he will be let go in a few years? Get a life!

And here we go. Mr. Rah Rah no criticism allowed makes an appearance.

My post clearly said SO FAR. It was even capitalized. But for "fans" like you, any criticism of anything UNT, no matter how well deserved, is unacceptable and must be met with personal attacks.

This is why UNT perpetually sucks. This attitude right here. Just smile and pretend everything is OK until the problem is so bad it ends up 66-7 Portland St. This pervasive attitude from regular fans through the high donor fans dooms this program.

You ask for crap, you get crap. Right now recruiting sucks. That could change in the next month. It hasn't changed in the last 3 months.

33 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

One thing we can agree on. Seth had more wins than ole Willie Fritz this year..

1 more win, to be exact.

And Fritz competes at a much higher conference level than Littrell.

For the record, I don't think we disagree that much. We are both concerned about recruiting but know we have to be patient and wait until February for the final result.

Edited December 8, 2016 by UNT90

Wag Tag · December 8, 2016

13 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

We have had far more than 3-4 months of Seth Littrell and his staff recruiting. You must be kidding, right? He had 3 months in his first cycle, alone. UNT90 is right, if he does not start recruiting better, he will not be here to start 2019 and it won't be because he was hired away. Littrell was not Wren's hire and he will have no problem cutting ties if this thing doesn't get going. Wren Baker is not #ThanksRV.

I will be a stickler with comparing our recruiting to like programs including UTSA. I will not except any reasoning to be sub standard finish. We have seen him sign a class with 3months to recruit that produced an All Freshman Team QB and DL which are the hardest to recruit in college football! We have not seen the end result of this class so we can't say it is a failure! As I have stated before Seth can coach kids up, proving it this season, but can he recruit? This class will be his beta since he has had a full cycle. NUT90 has his agenda and I have my ignore button! GMG

wardly · December 8, 2016

Littrell was our President's hire, not Rick's, and is not going anywhere soon. UTSA's hire was that of a coach known for his strong recruiting skills, and it shows.I have not been impressed so far with commitments from players whose choices were UNT , The Belt, or 1AA programs. At first blush it looks like more of Mac, but let his first full recruiting season play out.It would seem like the exposure from HOD Bowl, regardless of how we were selected, should help.

UNT90 · December 8, 2016

13 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

I will be a stickler with comparing our recruiting to like programs including UTSA. I will not except any reasoning to be sub standard finish. We have seen him sign a class with 3months to recruit that produced an All Freshman Team QB and DL which are the hardest to recruit in college football! We have not seen the end result of this class so we can't say it is a failure! As I have stated before Seth can coach kids up, proving it this season, but can he recruit? This class will be his beta since he has had a full cycle. NUT90 has his agenda and I have my ignore button! GMG

Name another freshman QB starter in CUSA?

Calling me names? I'm sure nothing will be done, so feel free. GoMeanGreen.com, where even the mods participate in the Internet bullying...

Edited December 8, 2016 by UNT90

Ben Gooding · December 8, 2016

2 minutes ago, wardly said:

Littrell was our President's hire, not Rick's, and is not going anywhere soon. UTSA's hire was that of a coach known for his strong recruiting skills, and it shows.I have not been impressed so far with commitments from players whose choices were UNT , The Belt, or 1AA programs. At first blush it looks like more of Mac, but let his first full recruiting season play out.It would seem like the exposure from HOD Bowl, regardless of how we were selected, should help.

I didn't say he was Rick's hire. I was just stating that I personally do not believe Wren will hunker in to keep a coach just to hopefully prove that it IS a good hire. I think Wren has humility and can admit mistakes while fixing them. Something RV was never able to do. And that is why Wren Baker is not #ThanksRV.

6 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

I will be a stickler with comparing our recruiting to like programs including UTSA. I will not except any reasoning to be sub standard finish. We have seen him sign a class with 3months to recruit that produced an All Freshman Team QB and DL which are the hardest to recruit in college football! We have not seen the end result of this class so we can't say it is a failure! As I have stated before Seth can coach kids up, proving it this season, but can he recruit? This class will be his beta since he has had a full cycle. NUT90 has his agenda and I have my ignore button! GMG

I understand that this is his first full recruiting cycle. We are not done recruiting and we only have about half our class (if they all stick) committed. There is still work to be done and still recruits to try and flip. There is a long ways to go. A lot of action takes place that last month of recruiting. Right now, I am skeptical. I am not blind to where we are CURRENTLY at. That is why this staff must finish strong down the stretch.

GMG_Dallas · December 8, 2016

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Name another freshman QB starter in CUSA?

THANK YOU! I was about to say the same.

EDIT: I looked through all CUSA QB starters and none were freshman.

Edited December 8, 2016 by GMG_Dallas

TheReal_jayD · December 8, 2016

41 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

1 more win, to be exact.

And Fritz competes at a much higher conference level than Littrell.

For the record, I don't think we disagree that much. We are both concerned about recruiting but know we have to be patient and wait until February for the final result.

This is true! we agree on both!

UNT90 · December 8, 2016

20 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

THANK YOU! I was about to say the same.

EDIT: I looked through all CUSA QB starters and none were freshman.

Ya, facts are important. Well, to some of us.

I hope Mason turns into Nick Mullens, but he got freshman of the year because there wasn't other competition. Plain and simple.

GMG_Dallas · December 8, 2016

32 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Ya, facts are important. Well, to some of us.

I hope Mason turns into Nick Mullens, but he got freshman of the year because there wasn't other competition. Plain and simple.

He has the toughness and a great head on his shoulders to do some good things here. With more talent in the receiving corps and O-line this year would have been much better for him but we can't let his "All C-USA freshman QB" accomplishment cloud our judgement with the QB position and think we have the guy. Time will tell but let's not throw out this accolade as any kind of indication of Littrell's recruiting abilities just yet.

TheReal_jayD · December 8, 2016

Nick Mullens Freshman Year- Team went 1-11

ear	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2013	Southern Mississippi	CUSA	FR	QB	9	136	276	49.3	1776	6.4	5.1	13	14	108.7

	Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
2013	Southern Mississippi	CUSA	FR	QB	9	40	-103	-2.6	2	0	0		0	40	-103	-2.6	2

Mason Fine Freshman Year - Team went 5-7 (4-5 with him as starter)

	Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2016	North Texas	CUSA	FR	QB	10	155	261	59.4	1572	6.0	5.6	6	5	113.7

	Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
2016	North Texas	CUSA	FR	QB	10	94	118	1.3	2	0	0		0	94	118	1.3	2

Edited December 8, 2016 by TheReal_jayD

Wag Tag · December 8, 2016

Great comparison! Thanks

UNT90 · December 8, 2016

What worries me about Fine is his deep ball. He didn't hit a receiver In stride deep all year. Not once. Everything was underthrown.

That concerns me. A lot.

Edited December 8, 2016 by UNT90

Mean_Green09 · December 8, 2016

3 hours ago, UNT90 said:

If we are counting on walk ons and guys with no other offers, get ready for a ton of 3-9 seasons. Beating people out for recruits matters. "Coach 'em up" is great and necessary, but talent wins 90% of the time.

Again, this was the same thing said of the great DMac.

We need to start winning recruiting battles. We need to get into area HS much more than we have been. UTSA is murdering UNT in recruiting right now. That's unacceptable. To a few of us, anyway.

They hired a great recruiter so that was to be understood. Whats unacceptable is that Texas St with 2 wins in murdering us

UNT90 · December 8, 2016

6 minutes ago, Mean_Green09 said:

They hired a great recruiter so that was to be understood. Whats unacceptable is that Texas St with 2 wins in murdering us

Neither is acceptable.

But, ya.

MGNation92 · December 8, 2016

17 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

What worries me about Fine is his deep ball. He didn't hit a receiver In stride deep all year. Not once. Everything was underthrown.

That concerns me. A lot.

Especially in an offense predicated on being able to stretch the field vertically and where the fade is run frequently

BTG_Fan1 · December 8, 2016

5 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I'm hoping for at least one maybe 2 juco O-Line and 2 Juco wrs to go along with Isadore on December 14th!

I understand your disgust and your point I am right there with you. Then I start thinking they had 4 guys with there first class with 0 other D-1 offers that contributed quite a bit and played well as true freshman. 2 walk ons step in and play significant downs.

Is this wishingful thinking about the 2 WRs and OL? or is something that has a slight chance at happening?

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

THANK YOU! I was about to say the same.

EDIT: I looked through all CUSA QB starters and none were freshman.

Southern Miss I believe had a true Freshman Play vs us and the week before... if he wants a true freshman then he was a RS Fresh

UNT90 · December 8, 2016

21 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Is this wishingful thinking about the 2 WRs and OL? or is something that has a slight chance at happening?

Southern Miss I believe had a true Freshman Play vs us and the week before... if he wants a true freshman then he was a RS Fresh

He started 2, maybe 3 games, not 9. And he was bad.

Hope Mason develops like Mullens, but he really was the only option for the award.

BTG_Fan1 · December 8, 2016

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

He started 2, maybe 3 games, not 9. And he was bad.

Hope Mason develops like Mullens, but he really was the only option for the award.

My point was Fine wasn't the only fish the pick from, but yes he was the most likely choice.. But Fine had some good flashes, but he also had some very, very bad games as well. We all should hope he develops into Mullens, but we should all hope we can recruit and land a Mullens from the start.

GMG_Dallas · December 8, 2016

17 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

But Fine had some good flashes

This is true. He showed promise early on. I really wonder if Littrell will replace our OC or hire another QB coach or both because it doesn't seem like Mason got better as the year went on. Where he struggled (such as deep balls) stayed bad and what he was decent at became bad. No progress though... Not his fault, we just need coaches that are constantly elevating his abilities.

BTG_Fan1 · December 9, 2016

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

This is true. He showed promise early on. I really wonder if Littrell will replace our OC or hire another QB coach or both because it doesn't seem like Mason got better as the year went on. Where he struggled (such as deep balls) stayed bad and what he was decent at became bad. No progress though... Not his fault, we just need coaches that are constantly elevating his abilities.

Morris was money on Fades... I'm going to chalk it up to Fine's height and his accuracy. Morris was able at times able to drop it in and he did it to Smiley multiple times at the USM game

Also, to fire GH would be to extreme... I would like to see someone like the former Tulsa OC/Texas OC brought in to help Harrell against in play-calling but these coaches were mostly all in new spots as in Ek as DC and Harrell as a play-caller

GMG24 · December 9, 2016

21 hours ago, UNT90 said:

What worries me about Fine is his deep ball. He didn't hit a receiver In stride deep all year. Not once. Everything was underthrown.

That concerns me. A lot.

How many of those is he running for his life on? Question no answer. I am SURE his mechanics went to hell in a hand basket after leading the nation in sacks, and I would guess pressures as well. He was running for his life play in and play out.

18 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

My point was Fine wasn't the only fish the pick from, but yes he was the most likely choice.. But Fine had some good flashes, but he also had some very, very bad games as well. We all should hope he develops into Mullens, but we should all hope we can recruit and land a Mullens from the start.

He's better than Mullens Freshman stats. Here are the awards he won as a Freshman.

Conference USA All-Freshman (2013)
Conference USA Offensive Player of the Week (Dec. 2, 2013)

Mason Fine Freshman awards

Named to the C-USA All-Freshman team

I would have to assume that had he not thrown two picks vs UTSA he would have a chance at offense player of the week with his stat line.

UNT90 · December 9, 2016

8 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

How many of those is he running for his life on? Question no answer. I am SURE his mechanics went to hell in a hand basket after leading the nation in sacks, and I would guess pressures as well. He was running for his life play in and play out.

No, look at film. On many of these he was under no pressure. He has been beyond awful on sideline go routes, usually throwing pop ups that drift in short and out of bounds over the reciever's head.

I am specifically talking about throws where he has set his feet with no pressure and failed to deliver the ball deep and on target.

If you have any games recorded, go back and re-watch. One of the reason his numbers went down instead of up as the season continued is that opposing defenses realized they could suck their safeties up because we couldn't throw the ball deep.

And this was not a receiver problem. This was Fine being unable to hit a deep target. And I don't mean unable to hit a deep target consistently, I mean at all.

It has to be mechanics or adjusting to the college game, as I don't think it's an arm strength problem. I worry that coaching didn't fix it all year.

Edited December 9, 2016 by UNT90

GMG24 · December 9, 2016

5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

No, look at film. On many of these he was under no pressure. He has been beyond awful on sideline go routes, usually throwing pop ups that drift in short and out of bounds over the reciever's head.

I am specifically talking about throws where he has set his feet with no pressure and failed to deliver the ball deep and on target.

If you have any games recorded, go back and re-watch. One of the reason his numbers went down instead of up as the season continued is that opposing defenses realized they could suck their safeties up because we couldn't throw the ball deep.

And this was not a receiver problem. This was Fine being unable to hit a deep target. And I don't mean unable to hit a deep target consistently, I mean at all.

It has to be mechanics or adjusting to the college game, as I don't think it's an arm strength problem. I worry that coaching didn't fix it all year.

I remember several of them from home games, Where we were headed towards the Wing, the ball was on the left hash, we got in 3x1 with single receiver on our sideline (short side of field) lined up at the bottom of the numbers (closest to our sideline) and ran a fade. You are now asking your QB to make a damn near impossible throw especially when your WR can't get separation. I am no apologist as I agree Fine has plenty of room for big jumps in his game. However sometimes coaches have to put kids in good spots. I believe after most games you hear Littrell saying something similar in games they lost. If they are going to run the above mentioned play the WR must lineup at MINIMUM on the top of the numbers (closest to the other teams sideline) or a step closer to the hash from there.