We need to talk about the actual game

MeanGreenTexan · December 6, 2016

25 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

FB dive up the middle isn't that explosive. I hope they continue to do that.

If they want to get better results, I would mix in a faster, quicker back and attack the middle. That would give them a better chance for big plays.

It may not be explosive, in the way we would expect a RB "explosive" play to be when watching Wilson or Ivery, but it is VERY effective for them... to the tune of their FB being the leading rusher on the team with over 800 yds...

GMG_Dallas · December 6, 2016

39 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

FB dive up the middle isn't that explosive. I hope they continue to do that.

If they want to get better results, I would mix in a faster, quicker back and attack the middle. That would give them a better chance for big plays.

Teams like Army and Navy aren't playing to get 10 yards in 3 downs. They try put themselves in a position to go for it on 4th each time. They hate to punt, although they will if they have to, but they want to eat clock while consistently getting 3 to 4 yards on a carry. Where they can be dangerous is if they get to 3rd and short, that opens up the playbook to occasionally pass the ball and do damage that way knowing that if they don't get the reception and first down, they still have fourth and short which they're ok with. That's what makes them so hard to defend. You have to stop them 4 straight downs with no penalties each time they have the ball.

EDIT: Army is tied for 9th in the country for 4th down attempts this year. They converted 51.6% of the time. They also converted on 44.8% of their third down attempts, that number being 29th in the country. Tough to stop when they consistently get yards.

Edited December 6, 2016 by GMG_Dallas

GOMG2013 · December 6, 2016

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It may not be explosive, in the way we would expect a RB "explosive" play to be when watching Wilson or Ivery, but it is VERY effective for them... to the tune of their FB being the leading rusher on the team with over 800 yds...

I don't think that will beat us. They don't have an Aaron Jones, so I guess they may as well.

meangreendork · December 6, 2016

19 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Teams like Army and Navy aren't playing to get 10 yards in 3 downs. They try put themselves in a position to go for it on 4th each time. They hate to punt, although they will if they have to, but they want to eat clock while consistently getting 3 to 4 yards on a carry. Where they can be dangerous is if they get to 3rd and short, that opens up the playbook to occasionally pass the ball and do damage that way knowing that if they don't get the reception and first down, they still have fourth and short which they're ok with. That's what makes them so hard to defend. You have to stop them 4 straight downs with no penalties each time they have the ball.

EDIT: Army is tied for 9th in the country for 4th down attempts this year. They converted 51.6% of the time. They also converted on 44.8% of their third down attempts, that number being 29th in the country. Tough to stop when they consistently get yards.

During their game with us, it seemed like they got their 3rd, and especially, 4th down conversions almost at will (until the 4th qtr meltdown). That's dangerous because it keeps the defense on the field that much longer, too.

But so long as their passing game remains a non-issue, our odds are good. And if our passing game can become a pillar for the offense in support of the run game, our odds are better.

BTG_Fan1 · December 6, 2016

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Teams like Army and Navy aren't playing to get 10 yards in 3 downs. They try put themselves in a position to go for it on 4th each time. They hate to punt, although they will if they have to, but they want to eat clock while consistently getting 3 to 4 yards on a carry. Where they can be dangerous is if they get to 3rd and short, that opens up the playbook to occasionally pass the ball and do damage that way knowing that if they don't get the reception and first down, they still have fourth and short which they're ok with. That's what makes them so hard to defend. You have to stop them 4 straight downs with no penalties each time they have the ball.

EDIT: Army is tied for 9th in the country for 4th down attempts this year. They converted 51.6% of the time. They also converted on 44.8% of their third down attempts, that number being 29th in the country. Tough to stop when they consistently get yards.

I agree with this.. Army's Punter didn't have a good game vs us either. I believe that we will do the same of having the Front 7 taken on blockers with McClain roaming back and forth. What will be critical is having our DL fill and hold the line between the tackles forcing Army to bounce it outside allowing our LBs and McClain go get the ball carrier. This game is very because their scheme gives them an edge but our defense should have better players.

Also, it will be smart for SL not to name a QB for the bowl game.. Make army prep for both Morris and Fine. Also, as much as I would like to have Fine start it maybe best to go have Morris at QB because of his passing ability to try and open it up for Wilson. Wilson also should be able to go coming back from MCL surgery, he wont be 100% but he wasn't either vs Army last time either most likely. Also we need to get Kelvin Smith involved in the slot, would be huge having him out there to block the CBs/LBs/S for Wilson. Also, we should rotate in and out the QBs because of what it does to the defense.

Also, Keena will/should be the big factor for us. If he can make army go 70-80 yards a drive that will help us a ton on defense.

Mickey · December 6, 2016

5 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

A few thoughts ...

* We ran maybe 18 offensive plays in the first half? Part of that time of possession advantage for them was based on our offense being so bad in the first half except for the one offensive score.

* On the other side, while we didn't shut down their defense we mostly limited the big plays. If you can make them run three plays to get a first down instead of one or two then you're increasing their opportunity to put the ball on the ground. Also, if you're always hitting them and always have a several players in on a tackle then you increase your opportunity to pull the ball away and recover it.

* We didn't need 7 turnovers to beat them. The last three or four were really after the game was basically decided.

In this game we need our offense to play better for the entire game. We need Wilson and Ivory to make plays in the running game. If our defense can match their work from the first game, even with much fewer turnovers, we should do very well.

I kinda disagree. The 4th turnover it was 28-18 and Army had just shoved it down our throats for a TD, got the ball back and drove 65 yards before fumbling around the 12 or so, that was huge and that would have made it 28-25. Instead Wilson broke a big run and we eventually scored.

5th turnover - at 35-18, they quickly drove to our 39, could have cut the lead to 10 but we intercepted. Again huge as we had shown no signs at all of stopping them in 2nd half. They score there and we are in trouble.

6th turnover - after we couldn't do anything at all for about 3 series - Army gets the ball to start at their own 46. They score and it's 10 point game with our offense completely shutdown by that point. We needed that INT because we hadn't slowed them down much other than the turnovers. Army only punted twice, both in first half.

NorthTexan95 · December 6, 2016

30 minutes ago, Mickey said:

I kinda disagree. The 4th turnover it was 28-18 and Army had just shoved it down our throats for a TD, got the ball back and drove 65 yards before fumbling around the 12 or so, that was huge and that would have made it 28-25. Instead Wilson broke a big run and we eventually scored.

5th turnover - at 35-18, they quickly drove to our 39, could have cut the lead to 10 but we intercepted. Again huge as we had shown no signs at all of stopping them in 2nd half. They score there and we are in trouble.

6th turnover - after we couldn't do anything at all for about 3 series - Army gets the ball to start at their own 46. They score and it's 10 point game with our offense completely shutdown by that point. We needed that INT because we hadn't slowed them down much other than the turnovers. Army only punted twice, both in first half.

I said the last 3 or 4 ... lol ... I'd say at 35-18 it was a gravy turnover.

97and03 · December 6, 2016

59 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I agree with this.. Army's Punter didn't have a good game vs us either. I believe that we will do the same of having the Front 7 taken on blockers with McClain roaming back and forth. What will be critical is having our DL fill and hold the line between the tackles forcing Army to bounce it outside allowing our LBs and McClain go get the ball carrier. This game is very because their scheme gives them an edge but our defense should have better players.

Also, it will be smart for SL not to name a QB for the bowl game.. Make army prep for both Morris and Fine. Also, as much as I would like to have Fine start it maybe best to go have Morris at QB because of his passing ability to try and open it up for Wilson. Wilson also should be able to go coming back from MCL surgery, he wont be 100% but he wasn't either vs Army last time either most likely. Also we need to get Kelvin Smith involved in the slot, would be huge having him out there to block the CBs/LBs/S for Wilson. Also, we should rotate in and out the QBs because of what it does to the defense.

Also, Keena will/should be the big factor for us. If he can make army go 70-80 yards a drive that will help us a ton on defense.

Wait. You think Morris is the better passer? I just can't agree.

GMG_Dallas · December 6, 2016

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

I kinda disagree. The 4th turnover it was 28-18 and Army had just shoved it down our throats for a TD, got the ball back and drove 65 yards before fumbling around the 12 or so, that was huge and that would have made it 28-25. Instead Wilson broke a big run and we eventually scored.

5th turnover - at 35-18, they quickly drove to our 39, could have cut the lead to 10 but we intercepted. Again huge as we had shown no signs at all of stopping them in 2nd half. They score there and we are in trouble.

6th turnover - after we couldn't do anything at all for about 3 series - Army gets the ball to start at their own 46. They score and it's 10 point game with our offense completely shutdown by that point. We needed that INT because we hadn't slowed them down much other than the turnovers. Army only punted twice, both in first half.

Turnovers 5 and 6 came pretty late in the game if I'm not mistaken. At that point, it was bend don't break. Take risks to get the ball back knowing we were in position to take chances and they needed to do the same if they had a chance of getting back in the game. If we have a big lead midway through the 3rd, this game should be a win as they don't have the firepower to come back so they will need to take chances at which point we should have the advantage.

BTG_Fan1 · December 7, 2016

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

Wait. You think Morris is the better passer? I just can't agree.

Fine can throw it but he always takes way to many sacks which hurts us a lot.. Morris yes has tossed a few INTs (so has fine) but he is more willing to gamble with the ball down field. Also, he throws a great fade as well. So if I have to pick, I'd take Morris as a pass over Fine yes..

BeatNavy · December 7, 2016

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

It may not be explosive, in the way we would expect a RB "explosive" play to be when watching Wilson or Ivery, but it is VERY effective for them... to the tune of their FB being the leading rusher on the team with over 800 yds...

Backup FB is 3rd leading rusher (450 yards). He's started a few games this year as well. Top 3 FBs all averaging more than 5 ypc this season.

We rotate slotbacks a lot too. Five of them have appeared in at least 9 games. No one slot has as much as 400 yards thus season, but four with the most carries all average 7+ per.

Edited December 7, 2016 by BeatNavy

Wag Tag · December 7, 2016

Fine in this game really began to hit the wall. Two of his deep passes could of easily had been interception if not for the DBs falling. He also looked to be pressing by throwing into double coverage. The weather may of been a factor in his play. Hope this staff game plans with some surprises.